Constitution Party in Serious Trouble?

Earlier we mentioned Howard Phillips weighing in against the attempts to disaffiliate the Nevada affiliate of the Constitution Party… and the possibility that Michael Peroutka and others had decided to walk out of the party because of the national committee’s refusal to do so.

Well, now I’m hearing more disturbing rumors that at least one, and possibly several members of the National Committee have resigned from their offices. Also, there are supposedly a few states seriously considering splitting off from the national party.

Most disturbingly, this post from a Constitutionalist discussion group claims that the New York affiliate has already made the decision to break...

By a vote of our membership on April 10th, the Constitution Party of New York disaffiliated from the national Constitution Party effective April 23rd when the national committee failed to disaffiliate Nevada. So we have no standing or interest in making yet another demand of the executive committee about anything.

It sounds like, sadly, a full blown splintering is going on within the party that could render it almost totally ineffective on the national level.

86 Responses to “Constitution Party in Serious Trouble?”

  1. RCAIP Says:

    What happened was, last year, the Nevada Chair and the Mississippi Chair ingaged in a debate on abortion, the Mississippi and several other extremist agitated and angered the Nevada Chair into stating his true belief that he is not opposed to exceptions with abortion, while a signifigant minority in the CP are Pro-Life/no exceptions and oppose anybody that favors exceptions, including the Nevada Chair and his family. And of course the Nevada Chair was mad enough to say bad things to the fanactical element of the Party, and soon the ‘no-exception’ extremists in the Party wanted to kick out the Nevada Party because of their Chairman.
    In truth, the internet fight was instigated by the extremists in the Party so they’d have a excuse in the Party to kick out the Nevada Party because the majority of the Nevada Leadership is LDS (Mormon) and the CP extremists are rabid Baptists/fundamentalists.
    Well at the meeting they needed a 2/3 majority to kick out Nevada and yet they couldn’t even get a simple majority!- the vote was 41 to dissiaffiliate, 57 against dissiaffiliation of the Nevada Party. And so the extremists are leaving because they cannot have their own way.

    Good Riddence!!

  2. rj Says:

    ^ Which is one reason Mitt Romney won’t win the Republican nomination in 2008.

  3. Tim West Says:

    Sounds like possible future LP doings to me.

    ...... “our law to its Biblical foundations”

  4. Tim West Says:

    ack. that last post screwed up. ignore it. damn fingers.

  5. Freelancer Says:

    The Michael Peroutka faction of the CP is, well, extreme. Now I don’t know what is going on, but it’s things like this that split up third parties right before they are about to make differences. Just before they’re about to get some sort of power, little disagreements rise up in the party and then split, Like the Reform Party.

  6. KatysDaddy Says:

    That first post is totally wrong. The problem stemmed from the fact that the CP claims to be 100% pro-life with no exceptions, yet they allowed a state affiliate to have a chairman who publically claimed to allow exceptions for Rape, Incest, and life of the mother. That the child is a trespasser and can be treated as such. He claimed that is the belief of his faith also, the LDS.

    The issue wasnt over his faith at all. It was over the fact of…can a party claim to be 100% pro-life when they allow one of their state affiliates to be run by someone who isnt? If they allow that, then they are NOT 100% pro-life as claimed. Chris Hansen of NV, the NV party chairman accused everyone who didnt side with him of being religious bigots. If you look at when the whole thing started, he is the first one to ever bring up religion, not those of us who are 100% pro-life. The IAP of NV told us that they would address the problem so it was tabled. Instead of doing anything, they affirmed that they supported their chairman (which is their right) and so they forced the CP to act.

    Those who wanted the IAP to be disaffiliated hoped that NV would remove Chris Hansen as their leader and then the whole thing would have been forgotten, but instead they thumbed their nose at us.

    When the issue to disaffiliate the IAP failed, 6 states so far have all said they are disaffiliating as they choose not to be involved in a party that lies. I and others can no longer tell people that we are members of a party that is 100% pro-life because thats not true.

    Vincent Darrah

  7. Fred C. Says:

    Any word on exactly which parties are dissaffiliating and what they plan to do?

  8. Joe Says:

    Here is the text of the resolution my state party in New York passed on April 10th. Since the conditions in the last paragraph were not met, we are no longer affiliated with the Constitution Party. I voted for the resolution. We have a meeting scheduled for Monday, which will begin the future of our state party.
    —————
    Whereas the National Committee of the Constitution Party has been
    troubled for more than a year and a half by events arising from a
    decision by the chairman of the Independent American Party of Nevada
    (IAPN) to publicly air views in clear opposition to the pro-life
    plank of the National Party, and

    Whereas the IAPN chairman has refused to publicly recant his
    statements, but has affirmed his position, and

    Whereas the National Committee by majority vote at its meeting in
    Columbus, Ohio, in the fall of 2005 has requested the Independent
    American Party of Nevada to address the situation, and

    Whereas the Independent American Party of Nevada has responded by
    stating in writing to the national Constitution Party chairman the
    IAPN support for its state chairman, thus elevating the issue to the
    level of a scandal that threatens the pro-life position and message
    of the Constitution Party, and

    Whereas leaders in the national Constitution Party have failed to
    address the scandal but have instead publicly attacked and unfairly
    maligned individuals seeking to promote the party’s pro-life
    identity, and

    Whereas several state affiliates, including Michigan, Ohio, Montana,
    Alabama, Oregon and New York have formally called for disaffiliation
    of the IAPN in accordance with the powers granted to the National
    Committee by its bylaws, and

    Whereas a disaffiliation motion brought to the floor of the National
    Committee in Columbus, Ohio, in 2005 was ruled out of order by the
    National Chairman;

    Be it hereby resolved that the Constitution Party of New York shall
    formally cease its affiliation with the national Constitution Party
    if the Independent American Party of Nevada is not disaffiliated
    from the national Constitution Party as of April 23, 2006.

  9. Brandon H. Says:

    I use to be a regular visitor to Peroutka’s The American View, but judging from the actions of one of the forum moderators, Catholics are not welcomed there and would not be surprised if certain other religions were not either. I e-mailed the CPNC and they replied there is no religious requirements for membership in the party and TAV is not directly affiliated with the CP.

    If a national party kicks out a state party, are the citizens of that state still able to be a part of the national party, or did they deprive themselves of having any members at all in that state? If so, then this was a lose – lose situation since it seemed impossible to keep both Nevada and New York.

    (By the way, this is a very informative site. Thanks Austin.)

  10. Joe Says:

    Brandon,

    “Welcomed” is a pretty subjective concept. You may not feel welcome there, but I am a frequent visitor to TAV and I can testify that Catholics are certainly allowed there. It is a Reformed Christian site, so it would not surprise me if some Catholics feel unwelcome there.

    You are certainly correct that TAV’s views do not represent the Constitution Party. Not only have they never claimed that they do, but they have gone out of their way to make it clear that they don’t.

  11. Scott T. Whiteman Says:

    Brandon, thanks for that post. TAV is unabashedly Reformed—CP is not. It’s really that simple. Others may not “feel” welcome, but they are—but they are not the managers of the site.

    The Party is 100% Pro-Life, Nevada IAP is not. It is really that simple. Others may not “feel” welcome, but they are—but in our view, they ought not be officers in the Party. We were out voted.

    But it is not a matter of not getting our way, so we are taking our toys and going home. Rather, many MANY of us got into the Party thinking the Party was willing to stand on the 100% pro-life requirement. We were wrong, so many MANY may be going else where.

    That’s why one should not build with a mixture made of clay and iron—they don’t bond, so what appeared to be a strong tower will waver when the tempest comes.

  12. Freelancer Says:

    So are all the former members going to go and “reform” the GOP? Or are they going to start another party. Or are they just going to build their state partyies?

  13. rj Says:

    “When the issue to disaffiliate the IAP failed, 6 states so far have all said they are disaffiliating as they choose not to be involved in a party that lies. I and others can no longer tell people that we are members of a party that is 100% pro-life because thats not true.

    Vincent Darrah”

    Vincent:

    Fine, and because of their and your principle: Republicans will continue to be the party that pro-life voters vote for.

  14. Joe Says:

    Freelancer,

    We will be discussing our options at our next meeting. I anticipate that we will decide to continue building our state party. We are doing so right now. We have one formal campaign announcement today. We were at an eminent domain rally today in the state capital. On Monday I will be at an anti-illegal alien invasion event.

    We will see what happens down the road. We left the Constitution Party because one state party chairman would allow abortion in the cases of rape and incest, so personally for me, joining the Republican Party is not an option.

  15. Matt Sterba Says:

    This is sad news. I was seeing and hearing a lot more about the Constitution Party in the last for years.

    The America First Party (Buchananism) should jump all over this. I never really saw any big differences between the two parties.

    A quick note on abortion. How can people who are against it, and call it murder (like me), stand up and then say that it should be ok if it was a rape victim? It doesn’t make sense. Is it not still murder in your mind?

  16. Matt Sterba Says:

    sorry “four” not “for”

    I went to public school

  17. Freelancer Says:

    Isn’t the Maryland affiliate going to leave? I mean, Peroutka is the chairman of that party.

  18. Thomas L. Knapp Says:

    Seems pretty clearcut—the Constitution Party’s Nevada affiliate still maintains its platform in 100% accordance with the national organization’s requirements, and the national organization’s bylaws very explicitly say that it can’t interfere in a state affiliate’s internal affairs (which would presumably include that affiliate’s choice of officers).

    The Constitution Party has always been useful for the purpose of making my party (the Libertarian Party) look like mainstream America by comparison. Now, against all odds, they’ve managed to make us look organizationally sane by comparison as well. Thanks, guys!

    Regards,
    Tom Knapp

  19. Gary Odom Says:

    I attended the National Committed meeting in Tampa. RCAIP has the facts right. The vote was 57-41 against disaffiliating Nevada. The religious fanatics who instigated the vote made up a very small minority of their own side of the vote. Many committee members voted strictly on the basis of whether they were “100%Pro-Life”, but have no desire to leave the Party.

    The Party is in much better shape now than before the meeting. This silly issue has been laid to rest and now the Constitution Party can and will go forward to build and grow.

    Jim Gilchrist, of the Minuteman Project, spoke at the banquet the evening after the disaffiliation vote took place and received a rousing reception by a united national committee of the Constitution Party. We’re reaching out, big time, to Minutemen and people who agree with their efforts to stop illegal immigration. There are a lot more of those types of people across the nation who are looking for a new political home than there are narrow relgious fanatics.

    By the way, by narrow religious fanatic, I don’t mean to disparage anyone’s religious views. I view the fanatics as those who want to exclude everyone who does not agree with THEIR views. These people would have the Party get rid of Mormons, Catholics and Jews and who knows who else (though they never have the courage to say so) That is NOT what the Constitution Party is about or has ever been about.

    Only a few who instigated the vote follow these narrow views, but it’s always a small, determined group that stirs up trouble and makes the rest look bad. “Losing” state affiliates that, for the most part, are not ballot qualifed and hardly organized is no real loss if it happens. Nevada’s party on the other hand usually runs 30-50 candidates across the state, has been on the ballot for years and years, has over 30,000 registered voters and in fact is the fastest growing party in that state. That would have been a loss!

    The results of this National Committee meeting will make the Constitution Party stronger than ever and in a better position to reach out average American voters than ever before.

  20. Gary Odom Says:

    In the first line of my previous message that, of course, should read “national committee”. “National Committed” is something else altogether!

  21. Citizens For A Better Veterans Home Says:

    Will Rush Limbaugh’s arrest figure into things?

  22. Freelancer Says:

    LOL!

  23. Freelancer Says:

    Gary,

    So let me get this straight. Only a small namber of people from the 41 left? If this is so, then that’s encouraging. I am not a member of the CP, nor do I have any type of affiliation with them. But I have been keeping track of them for a few years now.

  24. havealook Says:

    Not only has the New York party exited from the national party, but the Constitution Party web site has taken down contact info for the NY party, and refers readers to the regional chairman.

  25. Joey Dauben Says:

    All I gots to say is, Rick Jore better win this time or the CP can go the route of the Socialists…and fade into obscure splinter parties and …eventually return to the GOP.

    Infighting. Ha. Get some CPers in office first, then gripe.

  26. RCAIP Says:

    Exactely Gary,

    And did I mention that THE NEW YORK CP ISN’T BALLOT QUALIFIED

  27. Joe Says:

    The Bylaws of the National Constitution Party provide no guidelines for disaffiliation; that is, the National Committee may, at its sole discretion, disaffiliate by 2/3 vote of those registered and in attendance at any National Committee meeting any affiliate for any reason.
    The bylaws provide only a list of preliminary qualifications for affiliation. There are no qualifications for continued affiliation and no restrictions on any member’s conscience regarding a vote on disaffiliation.

    All three of Montana’s national committee members voted to disaffiliate Nevada, including Rick Jore and a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

  28. RCAIP Says:

    The only states that we possibly could lose that are on the ballot, are probably Michigan, Mayland, and maybe Idaho, since the Idaho CP has issued a stop to County Committee building and recruiting new members and seem to be ‘rigging’ their State Committee to vote to leave the national Party.

    However I predict those ballot-qualified that leave the Party would eventually lose their ballot-access by this election year or the next due to lack of support from the national Party, and that their state leaders would not be restrained in altering their Party in a bad light.

    -Remember the old American Party back in the 70’s that was ran by Tom Anderson? Think they’re a viable Party at this present?
    Nope.

  29. Joe Says:

    For those who are interested the roll call vote has been posted at:

    http://www.christianheritageparty.us/

    Two packages of audio files from Tampa are available at:

    http://www.christianheritageparty.us/download/Disaffiliation.zip
    http://www.christianheritageparty.us/download/Gilchrist.zip

  30. RCAIP Says:

    Oh yeah, just to let some people know-
    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is Pro-Life.
    In the Church, however, in the rare cases of rape or incest, the victim is supposed to both consult her Church Leaders on the matter and also pray for guidence on the matter before she can consider abortion.

    If there was ever a situation where only the mother or the baby could live- what would you choose? Either way, there no such thing as being 100% Pro Life.
    And what if the baby is horribly deformed and not able to survive out of the womb, or have a uncurable disease that would cause the baby to live in pain or misery?

    Besides if you could only stop 95% of all abortions or allow all to continue- what would you choose? sure we should try to stop all abortions, or as mainy as possible but if you can’t stop all of them, then settle with what you can do.

    Did I also mention that the majority of Americans that are Pro-Life favor some form of exceptions?

    While Pro-Life is a Principle- the exceptions issue is more a individual concern and not for the Party to dictate in a toltalitarian manner.

    Plus- the CP Pro-Life plank says nothing about being 100% no exceptions.

    And another thing, we’ve tried to use the abortion issue to attract GOP voters to us- it does squat.
    Immigration is our winning issue, not abortion!

  31. RCAIP Says:

    There also was open hostillity to LDS members and others at the Tampa meeting, as stated in a national delegate’s personal testimony, even a incident where a Jewish delegate was called a ‘Jew-Dog’ by one of the members of the dissaffiliation faction.

    Thank God for the walkout!

  32. Christopher Hansen Says:

    I believe that the words of Scott Whiteman, Peroutka’s right hand man, say it all about whether or not this was about abortion or religious bigotry. Notice he tells us (below) that they could not “argue” about “conjoining” with “devil worshiping Mormons” so the used a less than 1% disagreement on abortion to attempt to get rid of Nevada.

    For you Catholics: In the same email I got concerning Scott Whiteman another Perouka supporter said you Catholics were lumped in with Mormons, Islam and Masons.

    At the heart, it is and was all about religious bigotry. The abortion issue was just a tool of fools. They lost. Maybe now we can build something great without such bigots. Nevada is growing fast.

    By the way I was made the IAP candidate for Governor yesterday.

    Check out www.independentamerican.org

    Scott Whiteman wrote: “As for the events at Tampa, if the Party determined that conjoining with devil worshiping Mormons whose false Prophet could change any tenant of their religion tomorrow was not something to argue over, certain members in our ranks thought that their Apologists determination to permit babies to be killed who are the result of rape and incest might be something the Party leadership, founders and members would care about. They were wrong about that too.”

  33. NewFederalist Says:

    Wow! What anger! What a shame. Like most minor parties it seems to me the time wasted on fighting each other (with whom there is significant agreement) far exceeds the time, effort and energy spent on battling the Demorepublicrats (with whom there is little agreement). I guess that’s why they call them minor parties. Sigh…

  34. Freelancer Says:

    Sigh…As you say. You are probably right. As for Chris, yippee for you, I guess.

  35. Gary Odom Says:

    I have been in the third Party movement since 1971 and there is some truth to what NewFederalist says, historically. I’ve seen it first hand. However in this case, I don’t believe any large fracture is going to occur. Most of the people who voted, for whatever reason, for disaffiliation remained and we went forwared. For example, Rick Jore, who voted Aye on that vote, spoke later in the meeting (I believe it may have been the next day) about his campaign and the campaign of the Montana party. Donations were solicited for those efforts and I dare say that most people on both sides of the Nevada vote, including yours truly, donated to these campaigns.

    Any talk of a huge split in the party ranks (and I have seen them in the past in other incarnations) is greatly exaggerated. This is politics, for crying out loud. There will be differences and there will be fights from time to time. As Harry said, “If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.”

    The Constitution Party leadership is by far the finest and most competent I have seen in 35 years of experience in the 3rd Party vineyard. They are doing all the right things to see the Party through this minor turbulance. Those who make up the National Executive Committee and the National Committee are admirably demonstrating, in my opinion, that they can “take the heat.”

    By the way, I agree with the earlier poster that electing candidates, such as Rick Jore, as well as others, is far more important that anything else!

  36. Freelancer Says:

    Thanks Gary. That’s good to know.

  37. Citizens For A Better Veterans Home Says:

    As a third Party type, including very active in John B. Anderson’s National Unity Party effort in 1980, whom considers the Republicrats and the Democans as the chief villians: I think this is YET ANOTHER warning for reformers (any one out side the Dem-GOP Establishment duopoly) to stick to secular reform and leave moralizing to churches and individuals.

    As for CP being superior management, for a bunch of Faux Pro-Lifers* whom could literally change the world by actually focusing on the United States Constitution, may be that is true! I have sure seen pretty much all other smaller party types blow it time after time. No wonder conspiracy theories abound! Never under estimate pig headed ness, room temperature IQ (s), personality (mis)management, and limited vision!

    • Ya can’t be “Pro Life” by merely being anti abortion. Ya can’t be “Pro Life” and be “Pro Death Penalty”! Sorry, it is morally corrupt and logically dishonest! Spin Doctors to the Left, Spin Doctors to the Right, Spin Doctors all over the place!
  38. Tim West Says:

    yep. the CP is doomed to failure becuase it instantly kills about half of it’s possible support over the abortion issue and bible thumping.

    This is EXACTLY why the LP should NEVER take a “offical” position on abortion.

  39. Citizens For A Better Veterans Home Says:

    And with all the self sabotage and ‘Circular Firing Squad’ mentality of the Reform Party USA, they would be wise to listen to Timothy West!

  40. Jackcjackson Says:

    I am a 100% Pro-Life Atheist.. Would I be welcome?...

    On second thought, no I’m not because I think anyone who would not at least allow an exception for the life of the mother ( not even asking for exceptions for rape, incest, or health here..) is representative of extremist wing-nuttery.

  41. Jackcjackson Says:

    Unless you consider suicide virtuous.. and how many religions do that.

  42. Lineupsheeple Says:

    Fuck all organized religion sheeple. That is all, carry on.

  43. Stuart Richards Says:

    It looks like the CP had the courage to stand up to their Bible thumpers… hopefully the LP will have the courage to stand up to their Randroids. But hopefully, we’ll also have the ability to wrest power from them without alienating them. Party fights are messy.

    I could support the CP more, I think, if they moderated their stances on gay marriage and drugs. Otherwise they’re okay in my book.

  44. Citizens For A Better Veterans Home Says:

    CP (we call them ‘American Independent Party’ out here in the land of fruits and nuts, out here on the Left Coast, out here where a high rise fire during a tremer is called “Shake N Bake”) has all kinds of problems, but at least they are not Republicans or Democrats!

  45. Jim 101 Says:

    How can we ever expect a third party to successfully engage and defeat the two major parties, when they can’t even get past there own home turf, in-house squabbles?

    I’m beginning to doubt whether these third parties actually ever expect to win any office, make any policies, or truly effect any change in this country at all. It’s almost to coincidental, that when one of these third parties, like the CP, begins to look like they might be legitimate, they go and shoot themselves in the foot! I’m starting to think these parties are just a club, or fraternity, a place where relative nobodies can be somebody, (even run for President!) or be a party boss, or party leader, even if that party is relatively small and meaningless.

    Once again, true conservatives have nowhere to turn….

  46. Christopher Hansen Says:

    I agree! The LP should not have a position on abortion. They should not be a political party at all but just a party of partiers Their platform should be Keep the borders open while enjoying Sex, Drugs and losing your money to the Casinos.

    I just debated a rep from the LP on the radio a few weeks ago. He had the chance to tell the listeners what the LP stood for. He said Nevada was the best Libertarian State in the nation. Nevada, he said, had great Libertarian ideals like legalized prostitution, gambling and 24 hour bars. What WONDERFUL principles to push as yours and yours alone.

    He said all this while he was a student at a government university. For a Libertarian he sure was using other people’s tax funds to support his education habit. What a joke.

    If you want to listen to the debate go to www.independentamerican.org

    I also beat up on the Repub and Demo.

    If you want a good laugh, listen in.

  47. Freelancer Says:

    Hey Chris, I noticed you guys changed your website up there. It looks nice.

  48. Christopher Hansen Says:

    Minor Party Good News

    We held our Independent American Party of Nevada Convention on Friday and Saturday, April 28th and 29th.

    On Friday night we had a dinner with standing room only for Congressman Ron Paul. Many people joined the IAP that night. We had many Democrats and Republicans and Non-partisans join with us this month. The former chairman of the Republican Party of Elko County joined with us and is going to run for Attorney General.

    The former chair of the Independence Party of New York is running for office for State Assembly.

    The Republicans is looking to us for help. The Democrats are afraid we will steal votes from them and THEY ARE RIGHT.

    Chris Simcox, President of the Minutemen came and spoke on Saturday night along with Mark Edwards, Radio Talk show host for Wake Up America on KDWN.

    Ken Wegner, congressional candidate for the Republican Party also spoke. Ken is considering becoming an IAP because the Republicans keep sabotaging his campaign since he wants to close our borders.

    The Constitution Party may be struggling right now nationally but Nevada is not and we are a solid part of the national party. Utah is growing fast and California is coming on strong. Some of the parties that “quit” did not even have ballot position so who cares if they quit. They are nothing but people claiming to be a party. Until you have ballot position you are a nice group of people so unqualified that you are a party in Name only. Some times you must cut away the dead flesh to let the living grow. Then the living can grow without restriction. If those that tried to kick Nevada out start their own national party it will die because they are elitists that want to restrict their party to only “good Christians” a term, of which, only they know the meaning.

    The fact that the vast majority of Americans consider any party with the word “Christian” in the party name are immediately classified as White Supremacist EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT. It IS the perception. Normal non-fanatics will not even read their platform but will reject them on their name alone.

    We are building and having great success. They will attract the kind of crazies we do not want so I wish them success.

  49. undercover_anarchist Says:

    Boo hoo. I’m all for third parties, but not for hate groups. The CP is a moderately tame hate group in the guise of a political party. Their destruction is appreciated.

    People who relate the CP to the LP must be confused. Here is a simple way to show the big difference: The LP celebrated the movie “V For Vendetta.” The CP called it “Pro-homosexual, anti-Christian” as if that were a bad thing.

  50. Christopher Hansen Says:

    Hey undercover_anarchist,

    Did you form your own hate group or join one someone else started?

    I love how folks like you believe their hatred is not hatred at all. What kind of drugs do you take that can make you so delusional?

  51. rj Says:

    “...... ‘our law to its Biblical foundations’ ”

    -Just picked up on this Tim. It is funny to think that Deists used the Bible as a foundation. Revisionist history is a beautiful thing.

  52. Jonathan Grubbs Says:

    RCAIP said, “the CP Pro-Life plank says nothing about being 100% no exceptions.”

    The Constitution Party platform says:

    “We affirm the God-given legal personhood of all unborn human beings, without exception. As to matters of rape and incest, it is unconscionable to take the life of an innocent child for the crimes of his father.”

    This was never an issue about some “extremist” wanting to kick out the Mormons, even if it was, those “extremists” would not have a valid reason to try to remove those in leadership, if they were to abide by the party platform. Article II, Section 2.2 a, of the Constitution Party bylaws says; “...the state party or organization has:

    “a. Pledged adherence to the Constitution Party platform.”

    Being a Mormon does not go aginst the Constitution Party platform, not being 100% pro-life does! The Constitution Party should welcome anyone into the party that will stand by the principles outlined in the party platform, but they should not allow any state or nationa leaders to remain in leadership if they refuse to uphold and abide by these key planks.

  53. KenH Says:

    Hey, Christopher Hansen, libertarians understand that the federal constitution does not give the federal government the power to create the Big Nanny Governmental Leviathan of the liberal socialists nor the Big Daddy Governmental Leviathan of the conservative socialists.

  54. undercover_anarchist Says:

    I agree with KenH. Only I would go further to say that the Green Party’s brand of socailism is much preferable to the CP’s. I’d rather have someone expropriate my pocketbook than my penis.

    I don’t hate developmentally arrested rubes who delude themselves into believing in ghosts and spirits, gods and demons, etc. Nor do I hate people who immerse themselves in JRR Tolkein’s world for live action roleplaying fantasies. I’m just ammused and saddened by both.

    The IAP is unquestionably a hate group. They nominated violent segregationist George Wallace for president and were alleged to have played a role in the MLK assasination.

    Death to socailism in all of its guises; but first and foremost, the CP and its bible humping, cross burning, negro lynching tyranny.

  55. joe average Says:

    lot of hatred and animosity flowing from these minor party groups.

    guess I’ll go back to being a republican.

    thanks for driving me away guys

  56. Josh Ondich Says:

    The Constitution Party is spilting up. This because there 100% pro-life no execptions. I like the Constitution Party, but making everyone follow 100% pro-life no execptions is not realistic. If this one stubborn policy is going to bring down the party, then The Constitution Party was not mean to be. Not everyone in a political party is going to agree with the party 100% on everything. I am pro-life, but not to that extreme where it splits up the Constitution Party, The Constitution Party is divided, so has been the Republicans and Democrats long before Micheal Peroutka was born. The only way a poltical party works is if you have people that believe very similar, but not a realistic 100%. The Libertarian Party tried a 100% agrement policy that gfailed and tons of supporters walked out on them. The Reform Party was split because of lack of common ground. The Constitution Party’s division is not the Reform Party’s downfall. It is sure making the Democrats and Republicans say I told you so about third parties always failing. The CP and others have let people down because of small petty disagrement on varition of pro-life policies. I think this is a joke when a third party who had the founder of the minuteman project running for congress under their in California going stronger than ever. The CP could of had plans to run Jim Gilchrist For President in 2008 in a time now where mainstream voters are showing support for true border security opposing guest worker programs ans starting to show interest for voting for a thrird party according to several polls by CNN/Gallup and others. It was looking pretty optimistic that The CP could be the next strong third party untill this happened. The CP needs reform or it collapse.

  57. Josh Ondich Says:

    The only way the Constitution Party gets my vote in 2008. If Jim Gilchrist runs for President

  58. RCAIP Says:

    Johnathan,

    You forgot the forth paragraph-

    “No government may legalize the taking of the unalienable right to life without justification, including the life of the pre-born; abortion may not be declared lawful by any institution of state or local government – legislative, judicial, or executive. The right to life should not be made dependent upon a vote of a majority of any legislative body.”

    So, if the mother’s life is in danger and the baby’s life cannot be saved and the baby has to be aborted to save the life of the mother, then you’re still NOT 100% Pro Life.

    Now that may be a bit contridicting, but its there- however I think the CP should revise the plankform to, rather, be neutral on the issue of ‘exceptions’.
    I don’t mind having the no-exceptionists in the Party, as long as they respect others and not act like they run the place, or even try to run it.

    You also forgot this:

    Article III of the Party’s Constitution: “Nothing in this Constitution or the bylaws of the Constitution Party shall confer upon the national party any authority to direct the internal affairs of any state affiliate.”

    Howard Phillips stated so himself on the Nevada matter-

    http://www.constitution-party.net/news.php?aid=279

    And even before the Nevada issue, the extremists were already looking for a reason to kick out Mormons and others, as stated by Scott Whiteman and Cal Zastro, however Cal was and has always been very open about his hostillity to Mormons.

    Either way, the Party Leadership supported Nevada over the extremists.
    If you want a ‘Party’ that expects its members to live up and support ALL the rules in their character or in their personal life, then move to North Korea.

    You guys lost, get over it!

    And list to Josh Ondich here.

  59. RCAIP Says:

    I ment ‘listen’

    -Sorry ‘bout that

  60. Citizens For A Better Veterans Home Says:

    The reform movement has the additional burden of grossly unethical and blatantly dishonest ‘activists’! Don Lake is personally suing both the current (jblare@earthlink.net) and the past (siliconv@siliconv.com) Chairs of the Reform Party of California. Lying and deceiving comrades, even in personal or telephonic groupings where others know the truth, is ‘business as usual’ for so called reformers. (So one needs to ‘reform’ the Reform Party!)

  61. Christopher Hansen Says:

    KenH

    YES.

    The Libertarians understand that.

    But they are normally to stoned to do anything about it.

  62. Christopher Hansen Says:

    undercover_anarchist

    Wallace was a Democrat. He ran against Nixon and Humphrey. Who would have been the worst of the three? He was elected by a large Black vote in Alabama after he ran for President.

    I was 12 when he ran for Pres.

    The Independent American Party died in the 1970s. The New IAP started in 1992 AD. How are we a Hate Group?

    I am now 51 and the State Chairman of the IAP Nevada. My adopted daughter is Mexican. My daughter’s boy friend is Black, English and Eastern Indian.

    Who do I hate?

    This year we will have Hawaiian, Filipino, Black, Italian, Caribbean Islander, Mexican, Danish and Jewish candidates amoung our 40 candidates. Who do we hate?

    They are Catholic, Mormon, Jewish, Born Again and many others. We did not make them tell us what religion they were to join or to run for office. Who do we hate?

    The following is from our 2006 AD platform. How are we a hate group? Please be specific.

    While it is commonplace in our current political climate to say that morality has no place in law or that law is somehow based in vague relativism, the Maxims of Law declare clearly that, “Jus est ars boni et aequi. (Law is the science of what is good and evil.)” All law makes some kind of moral decision. It is for this very reason that law must be passed carefully, sparingly and with as much scrutiny as can reasonably be applied. As C. S. Lewis wrote, “Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

    I will tell you who belongs to a hate group. You. You hate everything good and moral American. You do not check your facts before you make false statements. You are also a liar. But I do not hate you. I pity you.

  63. Gary Odom Says:

    Chris, I’m finding, in my short experience on this site that some people make worthy discussion and others are not worth responding to. I’ve decided to no longer take the bait from idiots. I recommend that course, but fully realize that who you respond to and what you say is totally your business!

    Great job in Nevada and good luck in the election!

  64. Christopher Hansen Says:

    Thanks Gary,

    I respond to haters because they need to be responded to so their statements do not stand alone.

    To call us haters is just stupid. The proof, as they say, is in the pudding. Any hate elliments that were in the party have been chased over to The White People’s Party here in Nevada. We want nothing to do with such bigots.

  65. Freelancer Says:

    I usually take Gary’s advice and just not respond to people like that. But you made a pretty good point, Chris. By the way, you can pretty much guess what that political party is just by its name, the White People’s Party.

  66. Gary Odom Says:

    Chris and Freelancer both have good points. A stupid and hateful remark that goes unchallenged can, by that silence, be given credibility that it does not deserve. I cannot dispute that. I just get frustrated with people who make comments that are based strictly on hateful ignorance. Everybody has the right to their own opinion but some people ought to consider whether they have any real idea about what they are talking about before they spew mindless rhetoric. Oh well, if there was no “mindless rhetoric” we’d probably never hear much of anything from the White House or most of our elected representatives.

  67. Chris Campbell Says:

    I was at Tampa, it was my first National Convetion and I was there to meet, greet and learn. I was also there to vote on the Nevada matter. Though Peroutka and Lofton are gentleman, I have long known that some-not all-amongst the Pro-Dissafiliation party were not open to Catholics and Mormons-to name 2 groups.

    I have studied and read both sides. A few things:

    1. Steve Lefmine left the Party, good riddance as he was a severe anti-Catholic, ranting and raving the same Jack Chick-ian charges.

    2. Whiteman states that the TAV site is NOT CP, yet they run CP ads, interview members of the CP and the hosts are well known members of the Party-Peroutka especially. Many see the Party in the TAV, the people involved represent the Party to many. I have had many Catholics tell me after reading the TAV or hearing th programs, they cannot support the CP. I have been attacked and maligned for my involvement in a “protestant” Party as they sneer. I try to tell them it is a political Party, nothing more.

    3.Whiteman is a recent convert to Calvinism from Catholicism, but unlike Peroutka, seems to have a deep seated grudge against his former religionists. This is normally his business, as is his beliefs. When it crosses the line, it is a problem for the Party in general. I am NOT saying it has crossed the line, but too many on the Pro Disaffiliation side seemed to be of like mind.

    4. We are a PARTY, not a church. It should be open to all that will support our platform and recognize the fact that the nation was founded on Christian principles, that Calvinists, Catholics and others all played a role.

    To me, in the end and I could go on and on, it was a matter of kicking out a state Party for the opinions of a few. I do NOT agree that the child concieved due to rape is an “intruder”- I was a police officer for 4.5 yrs and have a BA in Criminal Justice, I know what an intruder is I could not kick out the Nevada Party, as many are hard working to change the tide of this nation.

    I do not agree with Mormon or Calvinist theology, but I will not discriminate on this basis. We are in a fight and we are losing. We have lives lost and we are doing little by infighting.

    To the LP members, I work with you whenever we have a common fight and a common goal. I do not gloat over your flat line numbers in National elections, You should not gloat over CP fights. The LP will not fight for the unborn massacred in the womb, nor to stop the illegal immigrants from bringing down our economy. This will cost you and us-as God does judge a nation for its morality or lack thereof.

    As for life of mother, when a woman willingly consents to sex and the two cooperate with God to form a life, the woman needs to have personal responsibility that it could end her life-it almost did my grandmother’s. She should not have an “out” after her fun to kill a child. She made the choice, she needs to live with it. If I chose to speed and crash into a wall, that was my choice to speed and to accept the consequences.

    For those that left, that is their choice, the CP will continue on. We will continue to build, grow and to put candidates forward to end the evil in the land. The reason I am in the CP is the the CP alone understands the moral duty to defend the unborn, among other issues. The GOP, Dems and LP do not understand that our rights are God given, not Govt given.

  68. Chris Campbell Says:

    Chris Hansen,

    Though I disagree with you on some issues, I do wish you the best in your run, give it to them

    Was honored to meet Janine and wish the Hansen Family well.

  69. Chris Campbell Says:

    Brandon H-

    I tried to leave you a message on your website. Please email me when you can, you will find me email off the Naional CP site.

    NOTE: I have no interest to keep up a long running debate via email, if you do not like what I say, address it here, do not spam my email-a little decency please on this

    Brandon, look forward to hearing from you.

  70. Chris Campbell Says:

    One more comment.

    I have far too much to do to debate online. I really hate this division in the CP, yet I know that in the end, we will move forward and grow stronger.

    IF those who leave do leave, I wish them the best. May they continue to fight the good fight.

    I implore them to stay and continue to work in the CP, but they must follow the dictates of their beliefs.

    I look forward to working with all members of the CP.

  71. undercover_anarchist Says:

    Golly gee, Mr. Hansen, you really made me think. “Some of your best friends are black,” I guess that means you can’t be racist. Hey, my great-great-great-great grandfather had a whole lot of black girlfriends. He also lynched black men for looking at white women.

    So one IAP faded into obscurity and another emerged to take its place. The new one cannot then be called “racist” when the first clearly was? Well, hey, the KKK has disappeared and re-emerged time again. If a new party calling itself the Nazis came into being, and had a swinging multi-cultrual dad like you at the helm, would that mean that it wouldn’t be “racist” in the very name it chose?

    I hate all that is “good.” The “good” that you love. Like forcing 11 year old girls to die from giving birth to a child that was conceived through rape by their fathers—or at the very least, pledging allegiance to a hateful sect of redneck trash who professes such a belief. THAT is 100% pro-life!

  72. Chris Campbell Says:

    Guess then the Founders were rednecks as well.

    With “anarchist” we can see the full flowing of the public education system and the full flowering of the hedonistic society of Darwin, et al.

    In the Christian mind set, all life is precsiou gift of God. IT is typical of low mentality, angry and vengeful people to label those of us in the CP as racists. Odd, though, I sat in Tampa at one point next to a Jew and next to one of the sharpest and best voices in the CP today-Ricardo Davis, CP chair in Ga and a black American.

    The 11 yr old girl in your scanrio is already mentally, and possibly, physically traumatized. She needs the church and the community to aid her and care for her. Abortion leads to, often times death and physical problems, always deep, long term mental issues-with increased incidents of alcoholism, drug abuse, suicide, etc.

    “Choose ye this day whom you will serve” God decided the conception would happen, we abide and care for this wounded soul.

    Your hating all that is good is evident ‘I saw Satan fall like lightening…”

    fairly evident indeed.

  73. undercover_anarchist Says:

    An 11-year-old girl is raped by her CP member father. Doctors say there is a substantial risk of her death if she carries the “baby” to term. If the world were the way that the CP wants it, the girl would either (a) die in childbirth, leaving her newborn baby, if it were “lucky” enought to live, to be raised and raped by her father/rapist; or (b) the girl would have a backalley abortion, in which she and the “baby” may die anyway, AND if the CP lynchmob got their hands on the abortionist, he too would be executed by their totalitarian socialist regime. Who is the murderer? Who is the enemgy of good?

  74. Gary Odom Says:

    Re:The first sentence of undercover_anarchist’s previous statement.

    This person should not be dignified with any further comment, feedback or discussion from any Constitution Party activist or leader or any other thoughtful person. It’s a free country so suit yourselves, but this “example” is so far beyond the scope of decency that the author of it really deserves nothing but to be totally ignored on these pages.

    To be honestly challenged and confronted on the issues is one thing, but to spend any time responding to a raving lunatic is just a complete waste of time.

  75. undercover_anarchist Says:

    Okay, Mr. Odom. Let’s instead imagine that her father is a Democrat, or even worse, an illegal immigrant. Would it then be acceptable for her to abort the child?

    Yes, the example is EXTREME—but so is a position that would not allow an exception to the “100% ‘pro-life’” dogma.

  76. undercover_anarchist Says:

    Another thing, RE: the IAP/AIP… Mr. Hansen says that the old party died out in the 70’s; the new one was reborn in ‘92. What of the 1980 presidential nominee, John Rarick, who was a member of the “White Citizens League?” Correct me if I’m wrong, but the IAP/AIP of California has maintained ballot status since its inception. When exactly did it STOP being racist? When it nominated Delmar Dennis, Klan activist and murderer in ‘84 and ‘88, or when it nominated Howard Phillips in 1992 and ‘96?

  77. Chris Campbell Says:

    I guess everyone is racist that is, according to Undercover:

    Christian
    Constitutionalist
    Pro-Family-Anti-Abortion

    How nice Undercover is so clean and open minded. I am sure he/she has black family, friends and neighbors. It is just a utopia for Undercover.

    Yeah, right-its called projecting

  78. Chris Campbell Says:

    undercover_anarchist Says:

    May 5th, 2006 at 10:05 am
    An 11-year-old girl is raped by her CP member father. Doctors say there is a substantial risk of her death if she carries the “baby” to term. If the world were the way that the CP wants it, the girl would either (a) die in childbirth, leaving her newborn baby, if it were “lucky” enought to live, to be raised and raped by her father/rapist; or (b) the girl would have a backalley abortion, in which she and the “baby” may die anyway, AND if the CP lynchmob got their hands on the abortionist, he too would be executed by their totalitarian socialist regime. Who is the murderer? Who is the enemgy of good?

    Besides straw man ranting, you have no idea what a socialist is clearly, you do show extreme lack of education-more likely, public education.

    Look up what the Socialists Parties believe in, look at our platform-we have little to no similarity. For fun, look at the GOP actions-mucho in common.

    ‘Baby” is what it is, it is fully human. Who now is a bigot and hater??

  79. undercover_anarchist Says:

    Mr. Campbell: You are a socialist because you want to harness the brute force of government to impose your views on the unwilling. You believe in collectivism, more specifically, in collective property. You believe that “illegal immigrants” are trespassing on what I can only assume you consider the collective property of the state. I do not believe in collectivism or statism; I believe in freedom. You also believe that wombs and rectums are government property, to fall under regulation of the state.

    There, I have addressed your comments. Why do you and other CPers refuse to address mine? I apologize for the hyperbolic intimation that the rapist was a CP member, if an apology is what you’re looking for.

    Now, seriously. 11-year-old girls DO get raped by their fathers and become pregnant. This is an extreme, but not unrealistic scenario. If the health of the girl is seriously imperiled, you allegedly stand for allowing her to die rather than abort the product of the incestuous rape.

    I say allegedly, because I think in your refusal to address the scenario, you are admitting that such a position is preposterous. No one, not even the CP, can possibly be so inhumane. Far from being a hater, I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you would indeed make an exception to your “pro-life” case here.

  80. undercover_anarchist Says:

    Furthermore, no one is addressing the fact that the AIP/IAP nominated self-professed white supremecists for president in every election until 1992.

    Here is some more info on the CP as a hate group subject:

    “Among the party’s current roster of local candidates is a Salt Lake City man, Jack Gray, who has no qualms about presenting himself as a member of David Duke’s white supremacist hate group, the European American Unity and Rights Organization (EURO).

    The party’s official ‘key race’ for 2003 is a gubernatorial bid by Mississippi’s most virulent Confederate flag defender, John Thomas Cripps, a long-time member of the white-supremacist hate group, League of the South.”

  81. Chris Campbell Says:

    We do not hand pick our candidates-we also do not have to support them or promote them nationally.

    As for the Confederate flag, anyone that has a problem with it is already brain washed by the public schools and the NWO-really one and the same. Lincoln would be proud of GW as he was a proven militarist and racist himself.
    Anyone that thinks the League is racist, same thing, they have been reading Homo Dees’ sight too much and beleiving it. Dees has about $200 million from being the white Jesse Jackson-a race/ethnic/religious baiter and not uniter.

    Again, we truly have a variance of people in the CP, a few nuts not withstanding. Then again, the Klan tried to burn a cross on my great-grandfather’s yard and they were either Repubs or Dems in that area at that time.

    Sorry anarchist, you live in a carefully molded and manipulated fantasy world.

  82. Gary Odom Says:

    UA, the nominee of the American Independent Party of California in 1984 was Bob Richards, the former olympic champion, not Delmar Dennis. Delmar Dennis was the candidate of the American Party, I believe, with which the California AIP was definitely not affiliated. Dennis never had any connection at all with the American Independent Party. Your continuing lack of grasp on the facts concerning the AIP and the Constitution Party is breathtaking, considering how you hold yourself out to be such an expert.

    Also if you knew anything about which you pontificate concerning the Constitution Party and its affiliates, you would know that the Nevada IAP was not affiliated with any national committee throughout most the 80’s, though the California AIP was. Therefore, certainly from Mr. Hansen’s perspective the “old” party had died out in the 70’s.

    Where do you get your information on the history of the American Independent Party and the Constitution Party? You should be embarrassed to be writing so much about a subject of which you know so little. I suppose, however, that you will continue to amuse us with your hysterical, historical antecdotes about the Constitution Party.

    By the way, when I was in Tampa, Florida for the recent CP national meeting, another California national committee member and I journeyed to St. Petersberg to visit and pay our respects at the Florida Holocaust Museum. Yes sir, us CP members definitely seek out the hotbeds of anti-semitism and and white supremecy when we go visting.

  83. Beth Laseter Says:

    I’m here in Idaho where the question of disaffiliation from the National Party is the hot topic. I have struggled and studied and read and re-read and listened. So far I have concluded that the extremists have it all wrong (That usually happened when you use a straw to see the world).

    They yell, scream, cry and invoke the name of God but only in regards to the abortion issue. Some of these extremist were delegates to the national convention, and they still are going on like a bunch of wildcats.

    What the pro-disaffiliate camp does not realize, or better… refuses to realize, is that efforts to stop party growth in the state, and continuing with their tirades, has only hurt them. I doubt they even once stopped to consider that they should return home, grow the party like gain-busters and then move in and influence the party for change.

    Instead, they plan to create a new independent party, based on Bible truth. They have even submitted bylaws (yet to be voted on) that eliminate the possibility of anyone who is not a Bible believing Christian from being an officer or member within the party. Correct me if I’m wrong… but the pro-disaffiliates are promoting an ideology contrary to the instruments (The Constitution and the Bill of Rights) they claim they want to protect and preserve.

    In regard to the vote on the Nevada disaffiliation issue, the pro-disaffiliates of course did not prevail. So whose fault is it that Nevada was not disaffiliated? Nevada? NO. National? NO. The fault is squarely with the delegates at the National Convention. Nobody else. That is what voting and Democracy is all about. If things go wrong, or the people put into office screw it up… well who do we have to blame but ourselves for putting incompetent boobs into office in the first place.

    I personally hope the disaffiliation question does not pass, and the “nut jobs” can go crack their walnuts someplace else; but if it doesn’t, and they shut the door on the National Party, well… I happen to know that the windows and the backdoors are still wide open… and I’m going to use them.

  84. Jeff Becker Says:

    I think it is important to note that the Constitution Party was first just a coalition of a few independent “US Taxpayer Party (USTP)”-like parties. This all started in 1992? It was not until 2000 that the party adopted an official platform at convention with specific language on abortion?

    The point is that the reason that these state affiliates came together was because they were all nationalist as opposed to Repub/Dem globalist and they believed that our rights come from God (as opposed to LP). This made them a distinct “third” party voice.

    This is probably why I do not find any position on abortion in the actual IAPN platform. At least I couldn’t find it in their website even though IAPN was accepted for affiliation by the pro-Life USTP/CP very early on.

    So what we really have here is a catch-22. The national CP requires affiliates to pledge allegiance to the national party platform (even if neither it or their bylaws existed when they originally affiliated) and also requires affilates to maintain this allegiance as running changes are made to the platform/bylaws. Methinks Nevada is grandfathered.

  85. T Smith Says:

    I have only been a member of the CP for 2 months now. My reasons for joining the party were after the following reasons.

    1- I became unhappy with the Republican Party of which I belonged to. The main issues were illegal aliens, abortion, and family values.

    2- I researched all third party platforms: Green, Libertarian, Personal Choice, and even Socialistic parties.

    3- After reading the Constitution Party platform, I realized how far off the Republicans and Democrats have fallen from our Founding Father’s intent of the Constitution.

    4- I immediately joined the party and now am a happy District Deligate, and my wife is a Presinct Delegate. We are both working hard to spread the CP message to friends and family because the message “sells” itself.

    The Founding Fathers wanted a country that encourages religious freedoms. These religious freedoms shape the way in which we view issues, but the constitutional framework should also be valued. Republicans and Democrats have shoved the Constitution into the corner, and the Constitution Party is the ONLY political party that is shinning a light on it.

    Please to not let this aborshon debate devide us away from what we all love- protecting the constitution. Let those from Nevada stay in the party, and please do not leave because of them. Those in the party are not perfect, and we should have a spirit of cooperation and unity even in the face of dissagrement. We all have the same desire to protect the unborn child, lets not let logistics get in the way of the greater objective and goal.

    Thank you for your time,

    T Smith – tylersredguitar@yahoo.com

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