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HB 403 Passes Committee

This just in from Rick Jore…


The House Judiciary Committee voted 10-7 to pass our Life at Conception Bill out of committee this morning.
I did amend the bill to clarify that it would not repeal the death penalty…

Rick

Source: The Constitution Party of Montana

73 Responses to “HB 403 Passes Committee”

  1. Mike N. Says:

    Barf.

  2. Joey Dauben Says:

    Thank the Lord God Almighty.

    Seriously, thank God.

    Anyone who cannot see that destroying a living soul inside that woman’s womb should never be voted into public office from this website. EVER.

  3. matt Says:

    This IS really good news. Talk about one guy who came on the scene and starting making this happen. Rick Jore is that guy.

  4. RWR Says:

    Joey, Matt, and all others who recognize that life is an inviolable gift from our Lord,

    I am with you in celebrating this victory, but don’t for a moment think this war is won. Please keep the people of Montana – especially our legislature – in your prayers.

    The House Judiciary Committee is stacked heavily in favor of life, so this victory was all but assured. The House overall is closely balanced between Democrats and Republicans/Constitutionalists, to the point that one defection could kill this bill. The Senate is Democratic, so we need defections from the party of death. Our governor is a Democrat, and chances are slim that he will sign the bill without God’s intervention. The voters of this state are unpredictable, so even the initiative vote is uncertain.

    Bottom line is that one state has to be the first to stick it to the federal government and the forces of secularism, and despite the odds against us, Montana’s amendment is the strongest statement of pro-life principles in the nation. We need the Lord’s guidance and conviction in our state, or else this bill is already dead. Please lift us up in frequent prayer over the next couple of years, that HB403 might be the first of many dominoes to fall.

  5. Trent Hill Says:

    RWR,

    Religious rhetoric aside, I get your point.

    This is only the first step, and the easiest at that. Good work Jore.

  6. Chris Bennett Says:

    AS a pro-life libertarian I commend this but shouldn’t all life sacred as well. I think the death penalty should be repealed as well.

  7. Mike N. Says:

    but shouldn’t all life sacred as well. I think the death penalty should be repealed as well.

    About time someone realized their hypocricy.

  8. Joe Says:

    The platform of the Constitution Party of Montana opposes abortion but supports the death penalty. In an abortion, babies are murdered – not executed after a conviction in a fair trial by a jury of their peers.

  9. Cody Quirk Says:

    Another thing- babies are innocent beings, murderers and convicts are not.

    It’s not hypocracy.

  10. Cody Quirk Says:

    With the Montana state legislature split 50/50 Democrat/GOP-Constitutionalist, chances are 50/50 for HB 403.

    Actually Utah probably will be the one leading the fight for life.

  11. undercover_anarchist Says:

    In the case of an abortion, an unwanted parasite is removed from the body of a woman per the woman’s choice.

    In the case of the death penalty, a living human being – usually a Negro – who may or may not have actually committed a crime, is murdered by the omnipotent Biblical state.

    What the fuck is a soul? Show it to me.

    I wish the CP were a church so that I could firebomb it.

  12. Chris Bennett Says:

    Jesus would have been against the death penalty! All life is sacred not just the life of the unborn. To be pro-life to me means being for pro-life for all human life unborn and the living. Make those who commit heinous crimes rot in prison and think about their salvation. Death penalty is just legalized government MURDER!

  13. Joe Says:

    If the Lord condemned capital punishment as immoral when He declared “You shall not kill,” then why did He command the death penalty so liberally in other portions of the Pentateuch? Does the Lord contradict Himself? Are there two or more gods speaking in Scripture?

  14. T. Says:

    If all life is sacred, then even those who have sinned deserve forgiveness and a chance to put their life back on the correct track, do they not?

    I’m not a religious man, and I never have been, but I don’t see how one can oppose abortion and support the death penalty. That is a philosophy foreign to me, and I suppose it always will be.

    Of course, I disagree with the Constitution Party on my own “moral” grounds, but I think my point remains valid regardless of what views I may hold. It’s simply a hypocritical stance to be taken, and I can’t see it any other way.

  15. jason Says:

    UA,

    You are a dipshit that spouts off a demented low-level form or populist rhetoric. You certainly do not think out your thoughts as is so evident of your earlier post.

    “In the case of an abortion, an unwanted parasite is removed from
    the body of a woman per the woman’s choice.”

    So you believe this? Life is meaningless to you? This gives you the resolve to “firebomb” the CP or a church because they believe that life can not come from a non-life? It angers you that we can collectively draw the comparison between an innocent life vs. a monster that purposely takes lives. Obviously life really has no meaning to you, and that there is no soul. Would it be safe to assume that when you are feeling down in the dumps you often think of “offing” yourself? You know, since you are just a speck of dust.

    “In the case of the death penalty, a living human being – usually a
    Negro – who may or may not have actually committed a crime, is
    murdered by the omnipotent Biblical state.”

    Oh please, spare me the evil-Anglo conspiracy to whipe out the darkies. You seem to be somewhat intelliget—if not cynical, hypocritic, and a wild eyed radical—to be informed enough that there are heinous, predatory opportunist monsters that function to inflict chaos and murder on anyone they so choose. The best place for them all is to be locked up or exterminated.

    Furthermore, in stead of pursuing the evil-Anglo conspiracy to systematically remove the “Negro” from our midst, maybe you should channel your frustrations and feed your curiosities towards the fact that, unfortunately, the above mentioned characters are in deed commited 65% of the time by Afro-Americans. That should keep you busy for a while.

    But I’m sure you’ll quip about the anxiety of social neglect that enforces the behavior for him to lash out at his oppressors ect, ect. Your school of thought is from the over inflated egos and intellects of anti-white white people that sexed and smoked their way through two decades of their lives. It’s really old and out dated and in fact, I think you could do much better, but probably not.

    yours truly,

    Jason

  16. Joe Says:

    T,

    We don’t believe that those who sin “deserve” forgiveness. While it is the church’s duty to preach the Gospel, we believe that the Savior of souls is the Lord, and His will is not dependent upon man. The duty of the state, justice, should not be subordinated to the church’s efforts of evangelism. Civil government’s role is to punish evil.

  17. Cletus Fetus Says:

    I suspect the question of abortion is not going to get resolved here, even with these excellent arguments I’m reading.

    However, maybe all can agree that the question of the legality of abortion ought to be decided by the states, not dictated by the federal government.

  18. Nigel Watt Says:

    What the hell? This is 2007, not 207.

  19. Joe Says:

    Cletus,

    Our presidential candidate in 2004 believes that a president has the constituional authority and a duty to end “legal” abortion in America.

  20. disinter Says:

    Another thing- babies are innocent beings, murderers and convicts are not.

    Yea cuz the state has never executed anyone that was actually innocent. Silly people.

  21. matt Says:

    UA,
    In your own inimitable style, you pose the following question:

    “What the fuck is a soul? Show it to me.”

    It’s not quite that easy, however. I can no more “show you a soul” than I could show you “freedom”. I can’t prove the existence of a soul any more than I can prove that John Brown raided Harper’s Ferry to achieve justice rather than fame. What I can do is make a damn good case. Consider the following:

    Perhaps “the soul” is the organism inside you that makes you hate racism rather than being indiffrent towards it.

    Perhaps “the soul” is what makes you angry about these bullshit wars and the people on all sides who die because of them.

    “The soul”, in (balanced) Christian thought isn’t a fuel cell that propels people to heaven or hell. It is the seat of passion and the place where a sense of justice can be cultivated. You have cultivated your sense of justice by refusing to ignore the things that are wrong with our world, but have you asked the question why anything on this damned planet should be just or right? I suspect that you have not.

    Christianity posits an answer, one that juxtaposes a loving and good God with the paradox of humanity’s free will.
    Perhaps you’d be well served to read up on that before merely criticizing it because of it’s apparent senselessness. Two good works which lay out the case in a detailed manner that I think you’d like are C.S. Lewis’ Mere Christianity and N.T. Wright’s Simply Christian

  22. Cutty Sark Says:

    Anyone who cannot see that destroying a living soul inside that woman’s womb should never be voted into public office from this website. EVER.

    People get voted into office from this website? I did not realize it.

    Fuck, I forgot to pick up my suit at the cleaners and they’re closed til Monday.

  23. Cutty Sark Says:

    In the case of an abortion, an unwanted parasite is removed from the body of a woman per the woman’s choice.

    In the case of the death penalty, a living human being – usually a Negro – who may or may not have actually committed a crime, is murdered by the omnipotent Biblical state.

    Whether the human being is or is not a Negro, Caucasoid, Mongoloid or any other pseudoscientific racial classification, and whether or not the state is Biblical or not – those parts of your argument are irrelevant and do nothing but deflect from your main argument. Which, on the whole, I tend to agree with, but with more and more reservation in later stages of pregnancy.

    What the fuck is a soul? Show it to me.

    Put on a James Brown record. Relax. Breathe deeply. Close your eyes and listen attentively for a few minutes. If you ain’t got no soul, I can’t help you, bro.

  24. Cutty Sark Says:

    You are a dipshit that spouts off a demented low-level form or populist rhetoric. You certainly do not think out your thoughts as is so evident of your earlier post.

    Maybe, but it appears in this case as you are pointing a finger, a minimum
    of four are pointing back at you.

    So you believe this? Life is meaningless to you? This gives you the resolve to “firebomb” the CP or a church because they believe that life can not come from a non-life? It angers you that we can collectively draw the comparison between an innocent life vs. a monster that purposely takes lives. Obviously life really has no meaning to you, and that there is no soul. Would it be safe to assume that when you are feeling down in the dumps you often think of “offing” yourself? You know, since you are just a speck of dust.

    Your religion is the only reason you don’t kill yourself? That’s pretty sad.

    Me, I think life is worth living for its own sake, whether there is a literal soul separate from the body or a god-person or not.

    But here is where it gets really weird and fucked up…

    Oh please, spare me the evil-Anglo conspiracy to whipe out the darkies. You seem to be somewhat intelliget—if not cynical, hypocritic, and a wild eyed radical—to be informed enough that there are heinous, predatory opportunist monsters that function to inflict chaos and murder on anyone they so choose. The best place for them all is to be locked up or exterminated.

    Furthermore, in stead of pursuing the evil-Anglo conspiracy to systematically remove the “Negro” from our midst, maybe you should channel your frustrations and feed your curiosities towards the fact that, unfortunately, the above mentioned characters are in deed commited 65% of the time by Afro-Americans. That should keep you busy for a while.

    But I’m sure you’ll quip about the anxiety of social neglect that enforces the behavior for him to lash out at his oppressors ect, ect. Your school of thought is from the over inflated egos and intellects of anti-white white people that sexed and smoked their way through two decades of their lives. It’s really old and out dated and in fact, I think you could do much better, but probably not.

    OK asshole, what’s your answer to your own quandary? Do you think that those of us who are not white are natural born violent animals? Do you believe in segregation, apartheid, a return to chattel slavery, or do you want to practice preventive extermination like the Nazis did? If you mean to say “niggers and spics” don’t hide behind “Afro-American”...I think anyone with half a noggin can tell what you really mean.

    But feel free to explain further what you really meant.

  25. Cutty Sark Says:

    I suspect the question of abortion is not going to get resolved here, even with these excellent arguments I’m reading.

    However, maybe all can agree that the question of the legality of abortion ought to be decided by the states, not dictated by the federal government.

    Nah. It’s probably more of an individual rights issue, and the states and federal government should both butt out.

    Just as with state mandated segregation, it’s possible for the federal government to be more freedom minded than the state government.

  26. Cutty Sark Says:

    Yea cuz the state has never executed anyone that was actually innocent. Silly people.

    Good point. Government has a shitty track record of finding the wrong people guilty. You can’t take the death penalty back.

  27. Cutty Sark Says:

    If the Lord condemned capital punishment as immoral when He declared “You shall not kill,” then why did He command the death penalty so liberally in other portions of the Pentateuch? Does the Lord contradict Himself? Are there two or more gods speaking in Scripture?

    The Flying Spaghetti Monster Would Really Rather You Didn’t spread your blasphemous religion through the force of government.

    Thank you.

    Ramen!

  28. Joe Says:

    Flying Spaghetti Monster?

  29. Cutty Sark Says:

    Try wikipedia or google, Joe.

    Just punch that in and go to town.

  30. Joe Says:

    So you actually believe a flying spaghetti monster created the cosmos?

  31. Cutty Sark Says:

    It’s as good an explanation as yours is.

    Ramen!

  32. Joe Says:

    I actually believe my explanation. Do you believe yours?

  33. Cutty Sark Says:

    Let’s say I do.

    Now what?

  34. disinter Says:

    I’ll take the flying spaghetti monster theory over the fiary in the sky gibberish any day.

  35. Chris Bennett Says:

    The state has executed innocent people. The state has put people on death row for crimes the individual did not commit. I rather free a guilty person than kill an innocent one.

  36. Trent Hill Says:

    Chris Bennet and “Disinter”,

    Name ONE person the U.S. government has executed who was innocent? And don’t pull shit out of your hat like “What about the Native Americans!?” Im talking about by lethal injection.

    Cutty,
    While I don’t know jason, and don’t really agree with his approach to the other guys statement. He isnt neccesarily wrong. While I respect black (no, i will not call them African Americans. Its stupid. You call me white, i call you black) people, alot of them are brought up in a racist mindset of white people putting them down,and all their troubles coming from slavery. We can all agree slavery was bad, but it certainly isnt the reason the modern black man has problems, right? There IS a certain strain of thought, particularly in the South, which blames the Caucasions for all problems. This isnt to say all people buy into it. Many dont. However, it is essentilly the same racist rhetoric that white supremacists use.
    White supremacy. Black Supremacy. La Raza. Its all racism.

  37. Joe Says:

    “fiary in the sky?”

  38. disinter Says:

    Joe – quit being a spelling Nazi. :)

    Trent – Imprisoned people are being found innocent all the time due to DNA and other evidece. It is more likely than not that people have been executed while completely innocent of the alleged crime.

  39. disinter Says:

    “A comprehensive study of 328 criminal cases over the last 15 years in which the convicted person was exonerated suggests that there are thousands of innocent people in prison today.”

    http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/Prison-Innocent-People19apr04.htm

  40. disinter Says:

    Further, here is a list of people that were SENTENCED TO DEATH, but the charges were later dropped:

    http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=6&did=109

  41. disinter Says:

    “Perhaps the bleakest fact of all is that the death penalty is imposed not only in a freakish and discriminatory manner, but also in some cases upon defendants who are actually innocent.” -Justice William J. Brennan, Jr., 1994

    http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=45&did=292#Part%20I:%20%20The%20Danger%20of%20Mistaken%20Executions

  42. Cutty Sark Says:

    Name ONE person the U.S. government has executed who was innocent? And don’t pull shit out of your hat like “What about the Native Americans!?” Im talking about by lethal injection.

    Does the electric chair count? Ethel Rosenberg, probably. I’m sure there have been some, but I’m not their attorney and I’m not interested in proving any particular case.

    Of course a lot more people are killed by state governments than the federal governemnt, and while it is difficult to prove which ones exactly were inocent, there are doubts about many convictions that were actually carried out.


    While I don’t know jason, and don’t really agree with his approach to the other guys statement. He isnt neccesarily wrong.

    Well, you know, while he dances around it and does not say it, he strongly implies that non-whites are naturally inferior and violent. He says two thirds of violent criminals are black (I doubt it’s that high, but OK) and that this is not in any way due to racism or any socioeconomic factors related to it. What alternative explanation do you propose? I’m all ears. If that’s not what he means to say, what’s the alternative explanation? And if it is, why be a pussy and dance around it? Just come right out and say what you mean.


    While I respect black (no, i will not call them African Americans. Its stupid. You call me white, i call you black) people, alot of them are brought up in a racist mindset of white people putting them down,and all their troubles coming from slavery.

    Not being either white or black, I don’t really care what you call each other, as long as I’m not in between you when you start shooting at each other.

    We can all agree slavery was bad, but it certainly isnt the reason the modern black man has problems, right?

    I’m going to guess that the reasons modern black man has problems are pretty complex, and many of them do in fact have their origins in slavery and Jim Crow segregation, but not all.

    There IS a certain strain of thought, particularly in the South, which blames the Caucasions for all problems. This isnt to say all people buy into it. Many dont. However, it is essentilly the same racist rhetoric that white supremacists use.
    White supremacy. Black Supremacy. La Raza. Its all racism.

    I agree with that. I don’t like any kind of racial bigots of any race.

  43. matt Says:

    Good point. Government has a shitty track record of finding the wrong people guilty. You can’t take the death penalty back.

    Interesting parallel to abortion, eh?

  44. Cutty Sark Says:

    Not in my opinion, but I’ll be more likely to consider the chance that I am wrong based on your further answers in the other thread about Political Parties and churches. Or you can post them here.

  45. Daniel Says:

    I’m wondering… since HB 403 is a constitutional amendment, then what’s the process of it passing? Will it have to get 50% in the house, then 50% in the senate, then 2/3 of a joint vote of both houses, then it goes to the ballot?

  46. Daniel Says:

    In case anybody’s interested, here’s Virginia’s life at conception bill (only requiring 50%) that was just barely defeated last Tuesday: 45-52. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?071+sum+HB2797

    VA almost became the leading state to end abortion.

    If MT is first by passing HB 403, then the new attorney general in ‘08 will need to be conservative. Considering Atty. Gen. McGrath can’t run for re-election, then is there a conservative running for his seat? We’ll need a strong atty. gen. to defend HB 403 before the most liberal 9th Circuit Court and then at the US Supreme Court. If he does a good enough job, then the US Supreme Court could technically rule uphold HB 403 in such a way that abortion would be banned in all 50 states (under the 14th Equal Protection Amendment).

  47. undercover_anarchist Says:

    “My name is Trent Hill and I trust the government to execute people, but not to manage their health care or retirements. Killing is what fuhrers do best!”

  48. Cutty Sark Says:

    “My name is Trent Hill and I trust the government to execute people, but not to manage their health care or retirements. Killing is what fuhrers do best!”

    I don’t trust the government too much in either area. Its involvement in health care and retirement should be phased out carefully, but it should
    be at the very least lowered a great deal.

    And Trent does not strike me as a Nazi, although obviously there are a lot of issues we don’t agree on.

    U_A….while I probably agree with you on the issues a lot more than I do with Trent, from what I can tell here he seems to be more likeable as a person.

    Do you think you are doing your views any favor by the way you express them? A lot of the tone of your comments comes off like you are getting your rocks off smearing shit on a public bathroom stall wall just to piss people off.

    Which is a shame, because u_are often correct – although of course not always.

  49. RWR Says:

    Daniel,

    It needs 2/3 vote from each chamber; no joint vote. I didn’t pay attention to that in my first message, so my numbers are off and the governor is not involved (thankfully).

    Thanks for getting me to look that up!

  50. undercover_anarchist Says:

    “A lot of the tone of your comments comes off like you are getting your rocks off smearing shit on a public bathroom stall wall just to piss people off.”

    We have a winner!

  51. Cutty Sark Says:

    What winner won what?

  52. Trent Hill Says:

    UA, none of us are getting pissed off. We just either ignore u, or use your statements as a jumping point to further disprove you.

    “My name is Trent Hill and I trust the government to execute people, but not to manage their health care or retirements. Killing is what fuhrers do best!”

    Wrong. Im a conservative UA, do you know what that means? If you knew your shit, you’d know it means that I want to privatize health care and retirement. In fact,YOU were the one railing against privatized retirement recently.

    I really doubt that THOUSANDS of innocent people have been killed by the Death Penalty. Ethel Rosenburg, I would actually agree with. So, out of the hundreds of death penalty cases that are famous and known world-wide, Ethel is the only one that really seems to have been innocent (or had reasonable doubt). I would,perhaps, agree that maybe a handful of people have been executed for crimes they either did not do, or did to a lesser extent (for example, they got tried for 1st degree, but it was second? or they were found sane, and they were insane). However, this is an example of the court system not working.
    If a district court sent a man to prison for thirty years, and he spent 25 of them, and then they realized he was innocent. Just like you “cant take the death penalty back”, you also cannot give this man 25 years back.
    Lets say he only spent one month in prison. You still cannot give him back that one month, nor can you give him his innocence back.
    So that seems like a moot point. For the record tho, I agree that it is a massive injustice.

    As for you categorizing me as a racist. I can safely say that is not true. Whether you believe me or not, really isnt my concern.

    “Well, you know, while he dances around it and does not say it, he strongly implies that non-whites are naturally inferior and violent. He says two thirds of violent criminals are black (I doubt it’s that high, but OK) and that this is not in any way due to racism or any socioeconomic factors related to it. What alternative explanation do you propose? I’m all ears. If that’s not what he means to say, what’s the alternative explanation? And if it is, why be a pussy and dance around it? Just come right out and say what you mean.”

    HE may have danced around the issue. I did not even approach it. Honestly, I don’t think he did say that. Two thirds of violent crimes are black? Maybe, I dunno. But it sounds close. I would not say that the statistic is mainly driven by racism. Socioeconomic factors…definetly. The lowest income earners will more often resort to crime than higher earners. However, is this due to racism? I would say no. You might say yes, and I wouldn’t say you were stupid for that. I can respect the opinion tho. I would say that ALOT of black oppression is self-inflicted because of the woe-is-me mentality of the Black Community (in some areas. Not in others, in the South it is pervasive).
    All over the United states there are white people who blame their problems on others. Some white racists in colorado blame their problems on hispanics (and some are right. But blaming a hispanic illegal immigrant for EVERYTHING is simply racist. Whereas blaming him for higher heathcare cost is probably true). Some white racists in the south blame their problems on blacks. Some irish americans in the Northeast and south blame their problems on the anti-irish sentiment that their ancestors recieved when they first arrived. Some Native Americans blame the white folk for all their modern day problems.
    The truth is, all of these “blame games” have a certain amount of merit. That is not to say that they are correct/incorrect. Certainly the Irish/Blacks/Native Americans/Hispanics were dealt a bad deal. Every class has had to fight their way up. Hell, even the White-protestants had to fight their way up. They had to throw off the shackles of British Oppression.
    I mean, no one was screwed worse than the Native Americans. And they rarely play the race card. Very rarely do you hear Native Americans claiming racism is the main force against them. And they have significantly improved their status in recent decades (despite being the most oppressed group in the US for MANY years).
    The irish were screwed HARD. Some would say they were screwed harder than the blacks (I would disagree, as they were widely accepted pretty quickly after the anti-irish sentiment was deafeated, and more easily assimilated intro the population (because they are white, they are harder to distinguish). Does it make me racist to believe that the black community is permeating their own problems?

  53. Cody Quirk Says:

    However, maybe all can agree that the question of the legality of abortion ought to be decided by the states, not dictated by the federal government.

    =All 50 states should ban abortion, but to what degree, is what should be left up to the states themselves.

  54. Cody Quirk Says:

    White supremacy. Black Supremacy. La Raza. Its all racism.

    =Exactely! Yet even worse though- these groups have actually cooperated with one another at times.

  55. disinter Says:

    However, maybe all can agree that the question of the legality of abortion ought to be decided by the states, not dictated by the federal government.

    I like that idea.

  56. Andy Says:

    “In fact,YOU were the one railing against privatized retirement recently.”

    So “undercover_anarchist” supports the Social(ist) (In)Security System. BAAAAAAHAHAHAHA! This guy is a JOKE. Certainly not a REAL anarchist, and certainly not a libertarian, more like a leftist.

  57. disinter Says:

    This guy is a JOKE. Certainly not a REAL anarchist, and certainly not a libertarian, more like a leftist.

    Bingo. His website even says (or said) he is a democrat.

    http://myspace.com/undercover_anarchist

  58. Dennis Leary Says:

    All 50 states should ban abortion, but to what degree, is what should be left up to the states themselves.

    I guess the rights of the women who have to live with the pregnancy and possibly raise the child are not worth anything to you.

    What if we all agree that all levels of government stay out of a woman’s private decision about her body and life and freedom, and whichever level of government is least totalitarian in this respect gets precedent?

    White supremacy. Black Supremacy. La Raza. Its all racism.

    Exactly! Yet even worse though- these groups have actually cooperated with one another at times.

    Well, at least you got that right.

    In fact,YOU were the one railing against privatized retirement recently.

    So “undercover_anarchist” supports the Social(ist) (In)Security System. BAAAAAAHAHAHAHA! This guy is a JOKE. Certainly not a REAL anarchist, and certainly not a libertarian, more like a leftist.

    He’s an anarchist, but he believes in a gradual transition to anarchy. Just like some people here don’t think we should get rid of immigration restrictions until we get rid of the welfare state first. He would keep some government control of health care and retirement until some other freedoms are won first.

    This guy is a JOKE. Certainly not a REAL anarchist, and certainly not a libertarian, more like a leftist.


    Bingo. His website even says (or said) he is a democrat.

    Actually, I visted his website which is now set to private viewing, but what it used to say was that he unfortunately finds the Democrats to be the lesser evil at this time.

    He has also been a Green and a Libertarian in the past, but found both parties to have a dark side and is now drifting back reluctantly to the Democrats.

    He remains a gradualist anarchist, opposed to “anarchy overnight” because of the massive destruction that would take place in a sudden transition.

    Since there are “anarchists” here who find federal immigration controls – including increased ones – and states outlawing abortion to be acceptable while we still have government, why is Undercover Anarchist any less of an anarchist just because he finds some other parts of government to be acceptable in the short term?

  59. Jason Says:

    I had fun posting my earlier remarks, if for the simple reason to piss off UA and give him some of his on brand of rhetoric.

    Cutty Shark turned it into something entirely different. UA belched out the old tune of racist white-America and the efforts to continue the status-quo of persecuting the “Negro” is how he used it.

    UA and Shark, If there is anything I am not, it is a pussy. Racist?? Nah, racial, absolutely. I stand behind the remarks I posted earlier. When idiot leftyist spout out such shallow and tired remarks like that, it does the whole group some good to hear an entirely different and just as brash retort. Idiots like that should never be allowed to go unchecked.

    Shark you either read on a 4th grade level or just wanted to be pissed off and offended by whitey—that is the norm today. So I’ll reply as you would.

    (1) OK asshole, what’s your answer to your own quandary? Do you think that those of us who are not white are natural born violent animals?

    No dickhead, and where in the hell did I state or cover any of that?

    (2) Do you believe in segregation, apartheid, a return to chattel slavery, or do you want to practice preventive extermination like the Nazis did?

    As for segregation, that is entirely the agenda of certain and very influential minority and Black departments of America today. So I’ll leave that one to you.

    (3) If you mean to say “niggers and spics” don’t hide behind “Afro-American”...I think anyone with half a noggin can tell what you really meant to say.

    Ok my militant minority friend…once again, I think you want to be offended and pissed off, as I said earlier is the norm today. You took time and energy in getting pissed off into attacking, accusing, and injecting what you wanted to into your racial diatribe.

    (4) But feel free to explain further what you really meant.

    I meant exactly what I said. Do I believe that “those of us who are not white are natural born violent animals?” Never said it, never implied it. I simply gave him a mouth full of his own medicine. Do you think there is a conspiracy by evil Anglo-America to lock up the “Negro”? I doubt that you do, and your answer would most likely be no. Just as my answer would be a no to your question.

  60. undercover_anarchist Says:

    I do not support Social Security in its current state. I was only saying that forcing people to have “private accounts” in which the government tells them what investments they can own is worse than the current system. Anyone can have a private account that is truly private and truly their’s. They don’t need the government telling them, making them, and in the meantime, generating massive fee income for their favored investment banks. And furthermore, as originally constructed, “old age and disability insurance” was a decent idea. But, as most state programs eventually do, it morphed into a monster in short order. Social security was supposed to keep old people from resorting to canibalism and centurian prostitution – it wasn’t supposed to provide an income in excess of the average worker’s salary, as it does now (for many).

    I am by no means a “Democrat.” I had a survey on my MySpace that said it was the party that “unfortunately” best reflected my views. The LP platform, prior to its rape and pillage by the “reform” movement, best reflected my views, but the Klan-rally mentality of its members is beyond offputting. The Green Party is a group of Marxist thugs. To be honest, the Minnesota Independence Party probably best reflects my views.

  61. Daniel Says:

    Actually, I just found that for HB 403 to pass, it needs 2/3 of the joint legislators. So, if all 100 reps voted for it, then no senators would be needed. Or we could have 75 reps and 25 senators, or 50 reps and all 50 senators.

  62. Trent Hill Says:

    Daniel, Thanks for the information.

    Dennis Leary huh? Good to have a celebrity on the show.

    UA, who said we supported Bush’s dumbass plan about forcing people to privatize their retirements? The truth is, most people should anyways. Depending on the government, and particularly the stupidass Social Security system for your retirement is a folly that is entirely your own if you get screwed by it. Eveyone should have seen the effects approaching.

    “I guess the rights of the women who have to live with the pregnancy and possibly raise the child are not worth anything to you.”
    No dumbass. You see, it is the woman (and her partner’s) fault that she is pregnant. See,everytime you get yourself into some shit, you cant just kill someone off in order to get out of it.
    This is equivalent to if I kidnapped a baby out of someone’s house, and the police had me trapped up in my house. And you were advocating rights for “Infant Thieves”. It is because of my own dumbass mistakes that I am in this mess, and I cannot solve it by destroying the baby.

    You didnt wear a condom? Too bad so sad. Abortion is not birth-control. It is a surgical operation that is fatal to an infant (on purpose).
    Wore a condom? But it slipped off/busted. Double bag next time. You have to be careful about sex.

    What you cant do, is go around fucking up your OWN life, then blaming it on others.

    This brings me to the Jason/Cutty Sark racism arguement. Many individuals of many colors will blame their fuck-ups on someone else. There are just as many hispanic and black racists as there are white racists.

  63. Carl Says:

    Murder should be legal between consenting adults.

    http://imdb.com/title/tt0059095/

    ;-)

  64. T. Bryant Says:

    Undercover wrote:
    “Social security was supposed to keep old people from resorting to canibalism and centurian prostitution”

    Public schools are getting worse and worse every year it seems.

  65. Andy Says:

    “He’s an anarchist, but he believes in a gradual transition to anarchy. Just like some people here don’t think we should get rid of immigration restrictions until we get rid of the welfare state first. He would keep some government control of health care and retirement until some other freedoms are won first.”

    You can’t compare the two because there will ALWAYS be immigration restrictions, even under anarcho-capitalism. So your point is not valid, and undercover_anarchist is a phoney and a fool.

  66. Andy Says:

    “I am by no means a “Democrat.” I had a survey on my MySpace that said it was the party that “unfortunately” best reflected my views.”

    Anyone who says that the Democrats best reflect their views is not even remotely close to being an anarchist, nor are they remotely close to being a libertarian.

  67. matt Says:

    Cut him some slack. Maybe the only other option was Republican.

  68. Trent Hill Says:

    HAHAHAH. Matt, well said.

  69. RWR Says:

    “Dennis” said-

    I guess the rights of the women who have to live with the pregnancy and possibly raise the child are not worth anything to you.

    You are exactly right, relatively speaking. When it comes down to either violating a woman’s right to convenience or a child’s right to exist, I’ll give existence precedence any day.

  70. Cody Quirk Says:

    No dumbass. You see, it is the woman (and her partner’s) fault that she is pregnant. See,everytime you get yourself into some shit, you cant just kill someone off in order to get out of it.
    This is equivalent to if I kidnapped a baby out of someone’s house, and the police had me trapped up in my house. And you were advocating rights for “Infant Thieves”. It is because of my own dumbass mistakes that I am in this mess, and I cannot solve it by destroying the baby.

    =Amen!

  71. Cody Quirk Says:

    You are exactly right, relatively speaking. When it comes down to either violating a woman’s right to convenience or a child’s right to exist, I’ll give existence precedence any day.

    =Correct.

  72. Stevn Boucher Says:

    This issue is simple the states should dedcide unless of course your afraid of people making an informed desion . myself aside from the moral grounds i say no to abortion because it’s an innocent human being that can be protected also abortion causes far mor problems health wise than it’s backers will tell you . IE higher sucibe rates , higher breast caner rates , just to name a couple.

  73. Brian Says:

    Regarding the death penalty issue, justice would dictate that a murderer not be entitled to enjoy his life after refusing to acknowledge the right of another to life. However, my opposition to the death penalty is not based on the validity or applicability of the punishment, but rather on the corruption in the judiciary. If one could expect a fair trial and the verdict could not be manipulated as they routinely are today, I would be in support of the death penalty for this crime. The judicial system is becoming only more corrupt and I would not want to give judges the ability to decide this issue when they have shown clearly that they can not be trusted even on some of the least complicated issues. If you want the death penalty in the judiciary, then first clean up the corrupt judges, clerks and lawyers. Once you get that done, come on back and we could perhaps accept this position more easily.

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