Comments on: Jore’s fetus-rights bill loses a round, but isn’t dead yet. http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/ Thu, 04 Dec 2008 05:50:26 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1.3 by: Cody Quirk http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-125268 Wed, 28 Feb 2007 07:10:51 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-125268 Well, you're the defeatist. Saving any baby isn't important if you cannot have it your way. Well, you’re the defeatist.
Saving any baby isn’t important if you cannot have it your way.

]]> by: Joe http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-124691 Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:02:08 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-124691 I think General Lee is being facetious. Plan B is president Bush's "baby murder via pharmaceutical" plan. I think General Lee is being facetious. Plan B is president Bush’s “baby murder via pharmaceutical” plan.

]]> by: Cody Quirk http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-120294 Thu, 22 Feb 2007 12:53:53 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-120294 I think Jore is against Plan B. =So you're saying that Jore isn't going to try to pass any more Pro-Life legislation? Is that it? I think Jore is against Plan B.

=So you’re saying that Jore isn’t going to try to pass any more Pro-Life legislation? Is that it?

]]> by: matt http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-119520 Wed, 21 Feb 2007 07:27:37 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-119520 The TN bill is vengeful and won't save any lives. As I understand it, it's just making the medical records of women who have had abortions public. I think that's ridiculous. If you have a problem with abortion (like I do) ban it! Don't publicly shame women in a way that violates everything we believe about privacy in America. The TN bill is vengeful and won’t save any lives. As I understand it, it’s just making the medical records of women who have had abortions public. I think that’s ridiculous. If you have a problem with abortion (like I do) ban it! Don’t publicly shame women in a way that violates everything we believe about privacy in America.

]]> by: General Lee http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-119392 Wed, 21 Feb 2007 03:27:41 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-119392 <i>Would you like to talk about how Ralph Nader has held the third party movement back for 20 years while enriching himself and mistreating his employees?</i> http://realchange.org/nader.htm Would you like to talk about how Ralph Nader has held the third party movement back for 20 years while enriching himself and mistreating his employees?

http://realchange.org/nader.htm

]]> by: General Lee http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-119385 Wed, 21 Feb 2007 03:21:16 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-119385 TN lawmaker proposes change to abortion law http://www.lastfreevoice.com/2007/02/14/tn-lawmaker-proposes-change-to-abortion-law/ TN lawmaker proposes change to abortion law

http://www.lastfreevoice.com/2007/02/14/tn-lawmaker-proposes-change-to-abortion-law/

]]> by: General Lee http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-119382 Wed, 21 Feb 2007 03:19:45 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-119382 <i>I’m sorry it was defeated. I hope Jore has a ‘Plan B’.</i> I think Jore is against Plan B. I’m sorry it was defeated. I hope Jore has a ‘Plan B’.

I think Jore is against Plan B.

]]> by: John Chance http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-118343 Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:53:43 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-118343 Richard, St. Paul chose not to marry Jesus did not marry either. so, what is your point? Drawn out to normal conclusion, both the Savior and one of the greatest evangelists of all time stopped children from being conceived and born. Here's a tip-it is not abnormal to not marry. One is not an animal and can control lusts. Get off Catholic moaning and groaning. We are teh only ones to speak out against contraception, abortion, etc with one voice (ignore the others, they have fallen away-Nancy Pelosi, Francis Kessling, etc.) Rome ahs spoken, the matter is closed. Please proceed to collect your tinfoil hat. Richard,

St. Paul chose not to marry

Jesus did not marry either.

so, what is your point? Drawn out to normal conclusion, both the Savior and one of the greatest evangelists of all time stopped children from being conceived and born.

Here’s a tip-it is not abnormal to not marry. One is not an animal and can control lusts.

Get off Catholic moaning and groaning. We are teh only ones to speak out against contraception, abortion, etc with one voice (ignore the others, they have fallen away-Nancy Pelosi, Francis Kessling, etc.) Rome ahs spoken, the matter is closed.

Please proceed to collect your tinfoil hat.

]]> by: matt http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-117684 Mon, 19 Feb 2007 04:26:27 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-117684 I'm in no mood to suffer fools, David, so here goes: One of the few third party members sitting in a state legislature authored important legislation and that legislation made it to a vote and narrowly lost. The legislation he authored speaks to to an issue that is deeply important to everyone in one of the major third parties and probably a third of people in one of the others. Many of us here think that legal abortion is an outrage on par with slavery. Others disagree, and we're debating about it. The debate necessarily touches upon moral, metaphysical. philosophical, and medical issues. People on both sides have decided that this important issue is worth talking about. You skate in here after a day of blogging on myspace about Ralph Nader and vegetarianism and decide to snipe about theocracy, an issue which hasn't even been brought up on this site for about a week and a half. If you had anything relevant/intelligent to say about this issue, you probably would have said it. Many pro-choice people have aired their opinions. Apparently, this issue, which has divided the country for 30 years isn't particularly important to you, and that would be ok too, if you would only stop grousing. Since you don't approve of our discussion, what do you suggest?Your 'blog' is full of tripe about Ralph Nader (and horrid new-age music). Would you like to talk about how Ralph Nader has held the third party movement back for 20 years while enriching himself and mistreating his employees? Perhaps you'd like to explain how, in spite of the fact that the vast majority of Americans are religious, people should be accused of being theocrats the moment they use moral traditions based on religion to aswer moral questions. David, I don't think you contribute here very often. You are now free to go back to wherever you came from. I’m in no mood to suffer fools, David, so here goes:

One of the few third party members sitting in a state legislature authored important legislation and that legislation made it to a vote and narrowly lost.

The legislation he authored speaks to to an issue that is deeply important to everyone in one of the major third parties and probably a third of people in one of the others.

Many of us here think that legal abortion is an outrage on par with slavery. Others disagree, and we’re debating about it. The debate necessarily touches upon moral, metaphysical. philosophical, and medical issues. People on both sides have decided that this important issue is worth talking about.

You skate in here after a day of blogging on myspace about Ralph Nader and vegetarianism and decide to snipe about theocracy, an issue which hasn’t even been brought up on this site for about a week and a half.

If you had anything relevant/intelligent to say about this issue, you probably would have said it. Many pro-choice people have aired their opinions. Apparently, this issue, which has divided the country for 30 years isn’t particularly important to you, and that would be ok too, if you would only stop grousing.

Since you don’t approve of our discussion, what do you suggest?Your ‘blog’ is full of tripe about Ralph Nader (and horrid new-age music). Would you like to talk about how Ralph Nader has held the third party movement back for 20 years while enriching himself and mistreating his employees? Perhaps you’d like to explain how, in spite of the fact that the vast majority of Americans are religious, people should be accused of being theocrats the moment they use moral traditions based on religion to aswer moral questions.

David, I don’t think you contribute here very often. You are now free to go back to wherever you came from.

]]> by: David Gaines http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-117583 Mon, 19 Feb 2007 00:33:12 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-117583 Is this a political blog focusing on third parties, or is it a blog for debating theocracy, metaphysics, and prenatal biology? Is this a political blog focusing on third parties, or is it a blog for debating theocracy, metaphysics, and prenatal biology?

]]> by: matt http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-117519 Sun, 18 Feb 2007 22:11:10 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-117519 Do we care about the lives of everyone in our state or only those who can speak and shame us into protecting them? Do we care about the lives of everyone in our state or only those who can speak and shame us into protecting them?

]]> by: RWR http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-117465 Sun, 18 Feb 2007 20:05:55 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-117465 Right on, Matt. If there is so much as a chance – and almost everybody will agree that there is at least a <i>chance</i> – that a fœtus is a living human being, then why risk it? I'm in medicine, and if you remember the controversy about Vioxx, a very good drug was pulled from the market because there was a minuscule increase in the fatality rate. If a tiny increase in the death rate of adults is cause enough to make a drastic change, why isn't a huge increase in the fœtal death rate, even if the possibility exists in one's mind that it is something other than a human, enough to ban abortion? Right on, Matt. If there is so much as a chance – and almost everybody will agree that there is at least a chance – that a fœtus is a living human being, then why risk it? I’m in medicine, and if you remember the controversy about Vioxx, a very good drug was pulled from the market because there was a minuscule increase in the fatality rate. If a tiny increase in the death rate of adults is cause enough to make a drastic change, why isn’t a huge increase in the fœtal death rate, even if the possibility exists in one’s mind that it is something other than a human, enough to ban abortion?

]]> by: matt http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-117371 Sun, 18 Feb 2007 17:47:49 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-117371 Just because we know that abortion is wrong and should be illegal doesn't mean that we should pretend to know things about the human soul that we are incapable of knowing. Knowing that just one human being is at risk is enough to motivate me to fight tooth and nail against abortion. Just because we know that abortion is wrong and should be illegal doesn’t mean that we should pretend to know things about the human soul that we are incapable of knowing. Knowing that just one human being is at risk is enough to motivate me to fight tooth and nail against abortion.

]]> by: Joe http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-117163 Sun, 18 Feb 2007 13:45:00 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-117163 Most pro-lifers I have talked to about it support prosecution of parents who murder their children and their accomplices. Most pro-lifers I have talked to about it support prosecution of parents who murder their children and their accomplices.

]]> by: matt http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-116676 Sun, 18 Feb 2007 01:34:33 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/02/15/jores-fetus-rights-bill-loses-a-round-but-isnt-dead-yet/#comment-116676 You're right Tim, some things we cannot know for certain. But what should guide us in uncertainty? Shouldn't we be motivated by the possibility that we are sending real humans to their deaths and attempt to prevent that? I'm pretty sure that killing foetuses is an exact moral equivalent to killing other people. I am not 100% sure since I don't have enough information about concsiousness, the soul, etc. In any case, since there is some uncertainty, why not err on the side of caution? Why not err on the side of life? Is anything more important than life? What could we give in exchange for our lives? I would certainly support any ban on abortion after the 40 day quickening, btw. It's better than nothing, and would probably prevent many deaths. You’re right Tim, some things we cannot know for certain. But what should guide us in uncertainty? Shouldn’t we be motivated by the possibility that we are sending real humans to their deaths and attempt to prevent that? I’m pretty sure that killing foetuses is an exact moral equivalent to killing other people. I am not 100% sure since I don’t have enough information about concsiousness, the soul, etc.

In any case, since there is some uncertainty, why not err on the side of caution? Why not err on the side of life? Is anything more important than life? What could we give in exchange for our lives?

I would certainly support any ban on abortion after the 40 day quickening, btw. It’s better than nothing, and would probably prevent many deaths.

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