LP Leaders Meet in Orlando

Libertarian officials and activists met in Orlando over the weekend to discuss the future of the party. At the meeting, Executive Director Shane Cory stressed the need for running capable candidates in winnable races to build the party from the ground up.

From the Washington Times...

Libertarian Party leaders gave a standing ovation to former Rep. Bob Barr after the ex-Republican called for “a multidecade effort” to build a movement to make the party nationally competitive.

“The future of America is the future of the Libertarian Party,” Mr. Barr told a weekend conference of state party chairmen. “And the future is bright.”

The former congressman from Georgia, who recently became the Libertarian Party’s regional representative in the Southeast, told a Saturday luncheon that many “real conservatives” have become disillusioned with Republicans.

“They are eager for a philosophical home,” Mr. Barr said. “There are enough of them out there that a significant number can be weaned away” from the Republican Party.

More than 100 Libertarian officials and activists attended the three-day event at the Orlando International Airport Hotel and Conference Center that included a Friday meeting of the party’s national committee and a Saturday presentation by longtime conservative organizer Richard Viguerie.

“Whenever conservatives are unhappy, bad things happen for the Republican Party,” said Mr. Viguerie, author of “Conservatives Betrayed: How the Republican Party Hijacked the Conservative Cause.”

Mr. Viguerie, whose pioneering direct-mail operations helped revolutionize political fundraising, emphasized the value of issue-oriented appeals in building a successful movement.

“You must give the voters a tune they can whistle,” said Mr. Viguerie, who drew applause when he said of the 2008 Republican presidential candidates that Rep. Ron Paul of Texas “is the best of the lot.” Mr. Paul was the 1988 Libertarian nominee for president.

During Saturday’s luncheon, Libertarian Party National Chairman Bill Redpath discussed ways that the party could overcome such problems as ballot access and fundraising.

“The problem is that we are a minority party in a winner-take-all voting system,” said Mr. Redpath, urging party activists to support “electoral reform” aimed at creating a system of proportional representation.

“We have to put our best faces forward in winnable races,” said Shane Cory, who became executive director of the Libertarian Party last year. He emphasized the need to “build from the bottom up” by winning office at the state and local level, and agreed with Mr. Viguerie’s stress on issue-oriented activism.

“We need to diversify and be able to address a broad range of issues,” Mr. Cory said.

A Saturday-evening banquet featured a debate among five candidates for the 2008 Libertarian presidential nomination: Las Vegas oddsmaker Wayne Allyn Root, Florida businessman Daniel Imperato, Internet entrepreneur Mike Jingozian of Oregon, physics professor George Phillies of Massachusetts, and retired businessman Alben Link of New York.

Attendance at the conference was “slightly higher” than usual for an event in a non-election year, said Libertarian Party Political Director Stephen Gordon.

93 Responses to “LP Leaders Meet in Orlando”

  1. matt Says:

    The ultimate technique for a candidate in the LP presidential debate would be to dramatically drop out in favor of a NOTA vote and an endorsement of Ron Paul.

  2. Richard Winger Says:

    Bill Redpath is my good friend, and I agree with him about the desirability of proportional representation. Nevertheless, I don’t agree that it is impossible for a third party to make a significant mark, even when a nation uses “winner-take-all” elections. Canada uses “winner-take-all” elections, and Canadian third parties have real influence and power. That’s because Canada has election laws that don’t discriminate against parties on ballot access, debate inclusion, and campaign finance.

  3. Joe Says:

    Richard,

    I agree. Rick Jore’s election seems to demonstrate that proportional representation is not a prerequisite for alternative candidates winning elections.

  4. Jeff Spangler Says:

    The Libertarian Party needs some new blood, not just the same old Third Party Candidates.

  5. SovereignMN Says:

    Jore may have demonstrated that it isn’t a prerequisite but it’s definitely an exception. I don’t necessarily believe that proportional representation is the way to go though.

  6. Devin Ray Freeman Says:

    Proportional representation’s not bad, but it only applies for multi-winner elections or multiple appointees. The seats of some council or board or other can be filled in this way and it’s not too hard for a small party to get a seat.

    One Libertarian in Wisconsin held a state-level seat due to the partial proportional representation scheme of the Wisconsin State Elections Board. It’s partially filled by appointees based on the gubernatorial election results. That Libertarian sat on that board due to Ed Thompson’s strong showing (over 10% gets your party a seat) a few years back.

    Elsewise almost all elections are single-winner, so no proportional representation can be done. There’s only one seat to be taken, so winner takes all. That need not be a problem, though, if a good single-winner method is in place.

    Our current method, Plurality, is a duopoly-forming single-winner method, and so is Instant Runoff. These two are arguably the two worst single-winner methods going.

    For a good single-winner method, go for Range Voting and your party will go on. Or else go for the World’s simplest form of voting – Approval Voting (which is also the simplest form of Range Voting). Both would do wonders for the Libertarian Party and others, and for the nation, and would really confound the Israel Lobby and their ilk.

  7. Eric Sundwall Says:

    Richard,

    Wouldn’t you agree that if ballot access for Congress was as simple as Canada, that huge monetary and traditional psychological barriers (ie the wasted vote syndrome) would still favor two historically dominant parties ? Especially when considered against the backdrop of how the Presidential electoral process influences political behavior and coalitions. We simply don’t choose a Prime Minister based on a dominant coalition or party, they do. The spoils of single plurality districts are next to impossible to dislodge. The occasional innovative, independent candidate can do it, witness Ventura in MN. A systematic change requires an assumption of legislative power, the threat of which is constantly kept in check by ballot access restrictions etc.

    The idea that current gerrymandered Congressional districts could be split up to include additional reps that could serve a real constituency is compelling. Thus perhaps a Green, CP or LP candidate would be plausibly elected even though their ultimate coalition or influence would be weak. It would still reflect the true desire of the voter rather than the hideous conclusion that one is voting for the lesser of two evils. So it becomes an issue of justice and fairness, rather than the third party strategy seeking to successfully triangulate the dominant mindset or political realities.

    As far as the ground up approach goes . . . what voices would be left to oppose drug prohibition and foreign wars ? Perhaps the simple notion of pluralism in the form of special interests etc. is acceptable to most, but it is considered the tragedy of the American system by some. That model is flawed when looking at the role of a third party as driving various issues that the Big Two won’t.

  8. Devin Ray Freeman Says:

    Eric,
    added reps in the House placed by proportional representation? Is that what Chairman Redpath proposed? Neat idea. There are several countries with proportional representation schemes for filling some of the seats in their national legislatures. The House is probably due to bump up in numbers.

    Of course, all these spiffy methods get stonewalled, but alternatives to Plurality Voting can and have been implemented at the local level. The better methods might meantime build momentum and work their way up.

  9. Eric Donfascist Says:

    Everyone knows the real story in Orlando was Wayne Root.

    I was more of a Christine Smith man until I discovered she is not actually the Playmate I’ve been jerking off with but a 40 year old with bad teeth.
    Now I’m for Wayne Root because he makes a lot of sense as far as I can tell.

    Wayne Allyn Root totally blows me away too! I mean he blows so much I can’t help but teeter, sway, and get swept off my feet like a schoolgirl!

    I didn’t think I could feel this way about a man before. Except maybe Arnold Schwarzenegger, I mean. Well I used to totally beat my meat in the bathroom after my boss Ron Paul would spank me, but that was before he became an Islamo-Fascist.

    I mean, I’m so totally not gay, even though I like to watch other men creampie in my wife and then eat her our right after before she can douche.

    We need a blow dried Republican blowhard on blow, blowing people away all over the world, or possibly Donald Trump or Ted Nugent, running as a Libertarian in 2008.

    Unless of course Rudy gets the Republican nomination in which case we should just endorse him. That’s a sure bet in my book. The odds are definitely Swinging his way especially since the Cross-Dressing photo has been on more Top web sites.

    Speaking about up and cummers.

    I think Asher Heimermann sounds like a budding Mainstream Libertarian.

    I think probably pretty soon he will start to get girls which will mean two things.

    First of all he will become pro choice because he will not want to be responsible for taking care of a child yet, but sex without a condom is more fun.

    And second he will become more in favor of Operation Iraq Liberation because he will want to have a chance to impress girls. Everyone knows chicks dig a man in uniform. Plus it will allow him to earn money for college.

    I think it is encouraging that he is a Republican and likes Rudy Giuliani.

    Positions like Pro free trade and Anti Crime clearly establish him as a Mainstream Libertarian.

    Being concise, to the point, logical and pro Community Action clearly shows he is Presidential.

    If Wayne Allyn Root and Rudy Giuliani have both used up their 8 years each by 2032 I say we give Asher a chance.

  10. Trent Hill Says:

    UA, while we all appreciate the sarcastic overtones….that was gross.

  11. NewFederalist Says:

    Joe- Rick Jore won in a two way race. He lost last time (although he was cheated IMO) in a three way race.

  12. Eric Donfascist Says:

    Look, it’s not Friday the 13th, and I’m not Jason.

    I’m Eric Donfascist, thank you!

    If I was G_E I think sex with animals would have somehow entered the picture. So far it hasn’t. I think you can understand my point.

    We have several excellent mainstream Libertarian candidates up for consideration such as Charlie Klein, Asher Heimermann, Wayne Root and of course Rudy Giuliani.

    First of all we should take Klein because he may not have as much time left on his clock. I think his proposal to DNA test a whole lot of people is excellent, it’s a very logical Anti-Crime proposal which is almost worthy of a Mainstream Libertarian like Rudy Giuliani, or maybe even Wayne Root, who totally blew all the Top Libertarians in Orlando.
    Klein is also for less welfare and for cutting taxes. Very mainstream Libertarian positions.

    Plus he’s For the War on Terror!

    I think that alone makes him a libertarian.

    Just like My President George Bush who is a mainstream libertarian as everyone can agree, and even more so Jeb Bush and Rudy Giuliani and even Arnold Schwarzenegger. God he’s dreamy! A real man’s man.

    I like Klein’s idea about putting teenage girls in jail. I think we should dress then in very skimpy jail uniforms and allow prison guards to do whatever they want with them. Then if they get pregnant again from that they can be kept in jail.

    Plus Klein is a Combat Vet just like me.

    Unfortunately, unlike the young budding Mainstream Libertarian Asher Heimermann, Klein is over the hill just like that oldster Ron Paul. Well at least he’s not an Islamo fascist unlike my Former Boss who used to bend me over his desk and paddle my bare ass.

    I miss him making me bend over and pick up pens he dropped on purpose, but I just can’t do that for an Islamo Fascist. I have standards too, you know!

    The unfortunate thing is that by the time Rudy Giuliani and Wayne Root get eight years each Klein will be too old, or possibly even dead. But then Heimermann will just be hitting his stride.

    Rudy Giuliani picked up the surprise endorsement of super Constitutionalist Conservative US Senator David Duke of Louisiana yesterday. Duke said that Giuliani had the leadership skills that are badly needed since we are at War with a bunch of dirty Semites.

    “Look, the last time that happened we had a very effective alliance between an Austrian immigrant and an Italian leader and I see no reason why we can’t just do the same thing again. Why fuck around with a formula that works?” said Duke.

    Latest poll numbers have Giuliani at anywhere from 47% to 65%. Duke was quick to point out that Mussolini’s poll numbers were in the same range right before the March on Rome.

    Latest poll numbers have Cong. Ron Paul at anywhere from 0% to 2%.
    That dirty anti-fascist bum! Unpopular people like him should be beaten with bundles of sticks.

    Giuliani toilet paper at http://www.pieman.org/rottenrudy.htm

  13. Nigel Watt Says:

    BAHAHAHAHAHA! Man I can’t stand Eric Dondero Rittberg.

  14. Robert Milnes Says:

    There seems to be two trends in play. Work with & through the gop/Ron Paul. Wean away support/votes /Bob Barr. Richard Viguerie-Ron Paul is the best of the lot. Maybe. I don’t think so. He’s not in the right lot.

  15. Eric Donfascist Says:

    I think it is clear that Rudy Giuliani is a mainstream Libertarian.

    http://www.openair.org/alerts/artist/nyc.html

  16. Eric Donfascist Says:

    “We see only the oppressive side of authority,” the mayor said during a crime forum held March 16, 1994. “Maybe it comes out of our history and our background. What we don’t see is that freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be.”

    “Freedom,” Giuliani argued, “is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do and how you do it.”

  17. Eric Donfascist Says:

    But, not only is Rudy a Mainstream Libertarian, he’s also a hell of a nice guy!

    http://realchange.org/giuliani.htm

  18. globalist_elitist Says:

    I think Eric Donfascist is funny, but he isn’t me. Perhaps Austin can verify this in some manner.

  19. Eric Dondero Says:

    Wow! I’ve been lampooned before, but these lampoonings from UA are quite good and quite hilarious.

    Worst I’ve been lampooned before was in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, last year. They made a cartoon of me as a barking dog behind a fence, fighting for Property Rights.

    Don’t mind the grossness of UA’s lampoonings.

    UA keep it up. Don’t stop. Don’t mind the publicity at all.

    But, if you could be so kind as to add my website address at www.mainstreamlibertarian.com and a plug for my radio show “Libertarian Politics Live” at www.blogtalkradio.com/libertarian, as well, I’d be most appreciative.

  20. Eric Dondero Says:

    Seriously, the Libertarian Party had a fine meeting from all accounts. The article in the Washington Times was very positive.

    And yes, as UA indicates, it does appear as though Wayne Root sort of “stole the show.” I know this, because all of a sudden Tom Knapp seems to be on the defensive with the Steve Kubby campaign, and the Phillies campaign has just fallen off the radar screen.

    I suspect now that LPers are leaning towards Root, or maybe this new Michael Jingozian guy, who seems rather interesting. Though, I did hear he’s not a great public speaker.

    Eric at www.mainstreamlibertarian.com

  21. globalist_elitist Says:

    Eric – I swear that it isn’t me, man. I honestly could not be that funny. I wish I could.

  22. globalist_elitist Says:

    Plus, if you see over on Liberty For America, I was defending you. I think you are a classic personality. And I agree that Giuliani and Schwarzenegger are better than most, and certainly better than Ron Paul.

  23. Trent Hill Says:

    Truth be told. Im betting Root or Jingo get the nomination. One simple reason, they have money. They can FUND the campaign.

  24. Jake Porter Says:

    and the Phillies campaign has just fallen off the radar screen.

    Sorry to disappoint you, but the Phillies campaign is alive and well. In fact, it appears that we have about twice the state volunteer coordinators as the Kubby campaign.

    Jake Porter
    National Mobilization Facilitator
    Phillies for President

  25. Sean Haugh Says:

    I saw the debate and I thought George Phillies won it pretty handily. I very much like what Root brings to the party, but there was one telling exchange which pointed up how difficult it is for anyone to make the transition from activist in another party to Libertarian Presidential candidate in one step. Root spoke of the awesome responsibility of running the US economy, and George had to point out that a Libertarian President would have the sense to understand that the economy was not his to run. Wayne seems like a good guy and we really need people like him in our party, but he needs to work on the finer points a bit to play well to a Libertarian audience.

    Disclaimer: I speak solely for myself here and not for the Libertarian Party who sends me money for contract work. In my official capacity, I really don’t give a damn.

  26. Eric Donfascist Says:

    Over at the LP blog, leftist America-hater Tom Knapp has this America-hating propaganda spin to explain why his Islamo-Fascist candidate once again ducked out of appearing in a debate. Of course, us Real Libertarians know that the real reason is because his Jihadist candidate does nothing but smoke dope and pray to Allah all day.

    The fact that Kubby wasn’t at the event is evidence that he’s a better candidate. Here’s why:

    The people at the event are already Libertarians, are already going to vote Libertarian and, if they’re responsible party officials, already know who the presidential candidates are and what they stand for.

    In other words, time spent at the event by a presidential candidate was time spent NOT campaigning, NOT building the party, and NOT doing real politics. I’m not saying the event shouldn’t have happened (although it probably should have happened on a different weekend), just that it wasn’t a place for candidates to campaign.

    Remember, this weekend wasn’t just any old weekend. It was the fourth anniversary weekend of the war on Iraq, with demonstrations/protests across the country.

    Steve Kubby attended an anti-war demonstration during the midday Saturday timeframe, doing retail politics among non-Libertarians.

    Then, Saturday afternoon and evening, he attended a debate between candidates in a special election in his county—one of whom he has endorsed, is supporting, and has made a TV commercial for—(the commercial, btw, identifies Steve as a Libertarian for president)—and once again did retail politics among non-Libertarians.

    He spent part of the rest of the weekend conferring with local political allies on an ongoing project; then, earlier this week, pursuant to that project, addressed a meeting of his county’s board of supervisors on an issue of not just county, but state and federal relevance … once again taking the oppportunity to reach non-Libertarians … and that address in turn resulted in three radio interviews on stations that reach not just his little piece of California, but the San Francisco Bay area, reaching yet more non-Libertarians.

    Steve Kubby reached more non-Libertarians last weekend and early this week than all the “I went to Florida for a bull session with people I already know” candidates combined—and he did it for far less than the cost of airfare from Oakland to Orlando.

    Regards,
    Tom Knapp
    Campaign Manager
    Kubby for President

    What a bunch of America-hating drivel!

    As my main man, Libertarian Hero Neal Boortz has said many times, attending anti-American, pro-surrender demonstrations is a good reason to put you in Gitmo or rendition your ass to a secret Uzbekistani prison.

    Certainly, no one who attends such America-hating events should ever be allowed to run for office!

  27. Kn@ppster Says:

    Quoth Eric Dondero:

    “And yes, as UA indicates, it does appear as though Wayne Root sort of ‘stole the show.’ I know this, because all of a sudden Tom Knapp seems to be on the defensive with the Steve Kubby campaign, and the Phillies campaign has just fallen off the radar screen.”

    I’m not sure why you think I’m “on the defensive” with Kubby’s campaign.

    Kubby has done more actual political events reaching people who aren’t already LP members, spoken as a recognized political figure at more actual meetings of actual governing bodies, and done more radio interviews, than, so far as I can tell, all the other LP presidential nomination candidates combined in the last week.

    So far as I know, there’s only one LP presidential candidate who is identified as such in television commercials that are actually airing right now—Kubby taped the ad, in which he endorses the candidate likely to be elected District Attorney of Mendocino County, California in April, a couple of weeks ago.

    I can understand that when a candidate misses out on some internal party hobnobbing to do, um, actual politics, that some may interpret him as “absent.” However, I had assumed that would not be the case with Mr. Dondero, who in the past has placed a premium on real political work while discounting internal party activities. I guess everything changed when he climbed on board the bandwagon of an obscure Vegas sports handicapper with no political experience and no prospect of winning the nomination outside of trying to pass himself off as a “celebrity.”

    Final correction: George Phillies’ campaign hasn’t “fallen off the radar screen.” It was never on “the radar screen,” if by “on the radar screen” you mean that it was achieving noticeable public impact. To be fair, none of the other campaigns have climbed onto “the radar screen” either, although Kubby’s is definitely moving in that direction faster than any of the others.

    Regards,
    Tom Knapp
    Campaign Manager
    Kubby for President

  28. Bill Wood Says:

    I will be voting for the Libertarian Party Candidate for President in ‘08. Mr. Kubby and Mr. Phillies have been working hard at growing the Libertarian Party and I commend both Gentleman for their efforts. Mr. Phillies seems to be working aliittle more on getting the support of dues paying LP members since they decide who the Candidate will be.I even recieved a Birthday greetings from Mr. Phillies, Thank You, that was very kind. Mr. Kubby is working aliittle more at attracting non-LP members to help grow the Party. Both of these is a good thing. Maybe they will team up and run P and VP.

    My only questions so far is about Mr. Kubby’s current probation, will he be able to campaign outside of the State of CA.? Or can his probation be used to his advantage?

  29. Kn@ppster Says:

    Bill,

    Rumors to the contrary aside, yes, Kubby not only WILL be able to campaign outside the state of California, but he’s already done so:

    – He announced his candidacy in Washington.
    – His first major out-of-state campaign trip was to Colorado last November.
    – He attended the Oregon LP’s state convention in Sunriver earlier this month.

    In February, Kubby DID miss the Nevada LP convention due to some paperwork problems. When he leaves the state of California, he has to tell his probation officer where he’s going and how long he expects to be gone. At that particular time, he had just moved from Placer County to Mendocino County. Placer had forwarded his records, but Mendocino had not yet received them. So, the Placer County probation office said “you’re not ours anymore,” and the Mendocino County office said “you’re not ours yet.” So, he had no way to fulfill the reporting requirement, and wisely chose not to risk it.

    We considered sending him to the Florida event, but that was always iffy. The costs would have been considerable and the benefits negligible.

    People in the LP, and especially active enough in the LP to be going to that event, already know who Steve Kubby is, already know he’s running for President, and have most likely met him, heard him speak, read his story, etc.—it was only seven years ago that he was a contender for the vice-presidential nomination, and nine years ago that he ran for governor of California. Sure, they might have liked to have him there kissing hands and shaking babies, but we didn’t consider it earthshakingly important or anything.

    What sealed our decision was when we noticed that the event was to be held on the 4th anniversary weekend of the war on Iraq. That was a weekend when political candidates needed to be doing real politics, not internal party stuff. If I had flown him anywhere that weekend, it would have been to Washington, DC, for the march on the Pentagon.

    Instead, we decided to keep him in California. He attended a local anti-war demonstration, then a local non-party political event, and then worked with a group of local citizens on some plans that are being implemented now and that you’ll probably be hearing more about soon (one result of that planning session was that he addressed the Mendocino County Board of Supervisors earlier this week, and was interviewed by three area radio stations as a result).

    I’m not going to try to tell you that local political work in Mendocino County is sufficient to a serious presidential campaign, but I think that real political work in general is necessary to a serious presidential campaign. Right now Steve has opportunities to make a difference for liberty … so he’s doing that, and trusting LP members to credit him with it instead of wondering why he’s not camped out under their balconies 24/7 serenading them with a ukelele or something.

    Regards,
    Tom Knapp

  30. Bill Wood Says:

    Thanks Tom,

    I was hoping to hear that it really wasn’t that much of a problem.

    ukelele bad, bag pipes good. :-)

    Keep up the good work campaigning!

    Bill

  31. Trent Hill Says:

    While I think Jingo or Root will win,due to money and pretty-factor. I’v always like Kubby’s famous story about passing the note to the police through his trash. That shows his wit, and cool-calm-demeanor. I wish the CP had a candidate who was so dedicated.

  32. globalist_elitist Says:

    Knappster has become a partisan hack and Kubby apologist. On one hand, he derides the other candidates for participating in a LP forum, and on the other hand, he tries to raise pitiful $10 contributions for his destitute candidate to rent a car to go to Oregon.

    BUSH LEAGUE.

    I like Kubby’s platform the best, but the LP nomination should be reserved for millionaires only. Or at least people who are friends with millionaires.

  33. George Phillies Says:

    We all do what we think is most important for our campaigns. I worked on recruiting opinion leaders, people who will actively support the campaign and assist in recruiting high-level volunteers. That’s why my recent large-scale emailing was not a fundraiser, but a volunteer incitement effort.

    Of course, it is also true that my campaign finances are in the range where my campaign does not need to ask ‘where can we afford to travel?’ but considers ‘where do we best invest candidate time?’.

    The other consequence of having a coherent campaign is that Phillies 2008 has already launched a targeted seen-by-sympathetic-general-public coast-to-coast advertising campaign. (No, I am not referring to my Third Party Watch ad.)

    Finally, I made sure that one real Libertarian candidate was in evidence in Orlando, so that when the wealthy Republican claimed that the President runs the economy, I promptly countered ‘The President does not run the economy. That’s Republican corporate socialist nonsense.’

  34. Kn@ppster Says:

    Trent,

    I haven’t seen Jingozian in action, so I don’t have much to say there … but Root? Win the LP nomination? That’s just crazy. He’s the Jeffrey Diket of the 2008 election cycle. Sure, if he wants to come to the national convention, publicly embarrass himself a lot and the party a little, and walk away with his two or three delegate votes, he can and it will be funny in a sick sort of way … but I don’t for one second believe that the LP delegates are stupid enough to actually nominate the guy.

    Global Elitist,

    In order to have “become” a partisan hack, I’d have had to previously been something other than a partisan hack.

    I’d be interested in when and where you think I’ve been “deriding” candidates for participating in an LP forum. I’m happy to have Kubby participate in LP forums, and he does so …when doing so doesn’t interfere with doing real politics.

    Last weekend was a big political weekend:

    – Rallies for the 4th anniversary of the war.
    – St. Patrick’s Day parades.
    – Debates, rallies, meetups and lit drops for the election a week from this coming Tuesday.
    – Friday fish fries at the local Catholic parishes because we’re in the middle of Lent—a fantastic place to meet lots of voters.

    It was a piss-poor weekend for a political organization, or that organization’s candidates, to be internally focused. Period. If you don’t believe me, ask the big players:

    Rudy Giuliani and John McCain weren’t poking at each other in front of the Republican National Committee on Saturday. Giuliani was pumping a multi-million-dollar crowd in Hollywood for their bucks, and McCain was stumping in Milford, New Hampshire.

    The Democratic Leadership Council wasn’t hobnobbing on Saturday—or at least not with Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. She was on the hustings in Houston, Texas, he was addressing a rally in Oakland, California.

    Yes, I know that internal party events are an easy way to meet delegates and “party leaders” and impress them, and that some of that needs to be done. But there’s a limit to that … and last weekend was well over that limit. It was a weekend for serious candidates to be doing serious campaigning, not hanging out at Disney World stroking the usual egos.

    Regards,
    Tom Knapp

  35. Bill Wood Says:

    I hope it doesn’t cost alot to have a channel on Youtube.com I see they have a section for candidates. I hope to see Kubby and Phillies videos on there soon.

    Bill

  36. George Phillies Says:

    http://www.phillies2008.com

    Various points.

    The links to videos have been there, since last year in some cases.

  37. Kn@ppster Says:

    Bill,

    There are several Kubby videos on YouTube right now, although none of specifically presidential events. Just do a search on “Kubby,” and you’ll find video of speeches he’s given before the Solano County (California) Board of Supervisors, the 2006 NORML national convention, the 34th Annual Cancer Convention, etc.

    He’s also doing a weekly “radio address”—five minutes or so in podcast format—available via the campaign website (www.kubby2008.com). Hopefully we’ll have some policy speeches to put up in video format later this spring as well.

    Regards,
    Tom Knapp

  38. matt Says:

    Kubby is very cool, and, although I’m a Ron Paul man through and through, I wish him a long and happy political career.

    Someone should make a Steve Kubby for president slideshow set to the music of Chamillionaire-Not a Criminal.

    It’s mainstream hip-hop, but it’s radically capitalistic, exuberantly anti-authority, and a lot of fun.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyMQyR1l_Nc

  39. globalist_elitist Says:

    Question for Phillies: Let me preface by saying I would support your candidacy if you didn’t have the 100% wrong positions on free trade and immigration. Now for my question – You say you want to build the Libertarian Party. How can you be more successful than you have been with Liberty4America, which seems to be a pretty miserable failure thus far?

  40. Andy Says:

    “globalist_elitist Says:

    March 22nd, 2007 at 9:45 pm
    Plus, if you see over on Liberty For America, I was defending you. I think you are a classic personality. And I agree that Giuliani and Schwarzenegger are better than most, and certainly better than Ron Paul.”

    Anyone who thinks that fascists like Giuliani and Schwarzenegger are better than Ron Paul is NOT a libertarian.

    It’s really hard to say who is worse between UA/GE and Dondero. I’ll call it a tie.

  41. Andy Says:

    “Trent Hill Says:

    March 22nd, 2007 at 10:14 pm
    Truth be told. Im betting Root or Jingo get the nomination. One simple reason, they have money. They can FUND the campaign.”

    Money alone is a shitty reason to nominate somebody. I don’t know much about Jingozian (or whatever the hell his name is) but I have looked into Root and I can say that this RepubliCON bootlicking warmonger would be the death of the Libertarian Party.

    I wish that Aaron Russo was running this time. Doug Stanhope looks good from what I’ve seen from him so far. If Doug gets serious about the race it could be real interesting.

  42. Andy Says:

    “He’s the Jeffrey Diket of the 2008 election cycle.”

    I’d vote for Jeffrey Diket before I’d vote for Wayne Root.

  43. Jake Porter Says:

    Liberty For America is not owned by the Phillies 2008 campaign.

    If you want examples of how the Phillies 2008 campaign will build the party; the campaign provides radio ads free for any Libertarian candidate to use. In fact, one ad actually played on a Des Moines, Iowa hard rock station last year. Another example is the Libertarian Candidate Support disk that George sends to Libertarian candidates. Additionally, we already have what would appear to be almost twice as many volunteer coordinators as the Kubby campaign. Now, we need people to help us build the Libertarian Party and not fight over a few issues they disagree with us on. We are a political party and not a debate club.

  44. Devious David Says:

    Phillies seems to be a great activist and poor candidate. For one, he fails the Federal Reserve/fiat currency litmus test. That really shows a lot of apathy towards the issue which is the foundation or the root of the nations ill’s and nothing will be substantially solved until that single problem is.

    Ron Paul 2008! He’s the only one that seems to have a total grasp on all the issues. I just don’t totally agree with him on them all. Pretty close though. He’s also the best qualified.

    I really don’t see or want some reich wing GOP-lite candidate. Is there a chance of drafting Bruce Guthrie? I would like to see Russo some more too.

  45. Jake Porter Says:

    Devious David,

    If Ron Paul does not win the Republican nomination would you consider supporting George Phillies for President?

  46. Jake Porter Says:

    Also, the Phillies 2008 campaign does not have an official position on the Federal Reserve.

  47. Andy Says:

    “Jake Porter Says:

    March 23rd, 2007 at 7:00 pm
    Also, the Phillies 2008 campaign does not have an official position on the Federal Reserve.”

    Why doesn’t he have an official position on the Federal Reserve? It’s not as though it is a minor issue.

  48. Kn@ppster Says:

    Jake,

    You write:

    “Additionally, we already have what would appear to be almost twice as many volunteer coordinators as the Kubby campaign.”

    Actually, you’ve repeated the statement several times in various places, so it’s obviously something you want to emphasize—and I have a question about it.

    What are your state coordinators, um … coordinating?

    I’m not trying to be facetious here. I intend the question seriously.

    Early on, I was very intent on a “50 state coordinators” campaign by the end of 2006. What I learned was that we had a number of volunteers who were interested in doing things in their areas, but not interested in “being volunteer staff with a title.”

    For example, one activist in Oregon rounded up pledges from supporters to help keep Steve’s trip to their convention “in the black,” and set up a “meet and greet” event separate from the convention itself.

    Another activist in Michigan distributed Kubby literature at an LP forum.

    Yet another activist in California helped us put together an op-ed on government involvement in marriage.

    Several activists in Colorado helped us put together a campaign trip for Steve to stump for Amendment 44.

    In a couple of cases, these activists answered with a flat-out “no” to the question “will you be our state coordinator?” In others, it just never came up, because by then we were more into the thick of doing things than obsessed with handing out titles.

    I’m not suggesting, by any means, that the Phillies campaign is a shell of titles with nothing going on inside it—I know better, because I’ve seen some of the things y’all are doing. However, I question the notion that the number of titled volunteer positions is an indicator of how much the campaign is doing, or how effectively it’s doing those things. If you think it’s that big a deal, let me know, and I’ll get back on the job of having “50 state coordinators”—something I have no doubt I can accomplish by April 30th.

    Regards,
    Tom Knapp

  49. globalist_elitist Says:

    The Federal Reserve is the root of the nation’s prosperity; not its ills. Our financial system and markets are the best in the world, our currency the strongest in the history of the world. This extreme disconnect with reality – absent from the Phillies campaign – is what makes me like Phillies. But then he ruins it with his positions on immigration and trade.

    Andy – For what it’s worth, I do not like Giuliani or Schwarzenegger. But they are both pro-choice, pro-gay. Ron Paul is not. End of discussion.

  50. globalist_elitist Says:

    This debate between the unpaid “coordinators” for Kubby and Phillies is truly comical and entirely representative of why the LP is such a joke. We’re talking about two candidates with less than $20k between them.

  51. Kn@ppster Says:

    Andy,

    You write:

    “Why doesn’t he have an official position on the Federal Reserve? It’s not as though it is a minor issue.”

    Actually, it is an exceedingly minor issue from the perspective of electoral politics.

    I’m a hard money/non-fiat-currency/anti-central-banking guy myself, but I would be surprised to learn that as many as 1 in 100 American voters give a tinker’s damn about the Fed one way or the other.

    It’s good and necessary to be right on the issues you campaign on.

    It’s also good and necessary to campaign on issues that people care about, not issues that people don’t care about. And, for the most part, we don’t have the horsepower to get the masses to care about whatever pet issues we think they should care about.

    Our candidates are always at a severe disadvantage relative to their opponents in terms of “face time” with the public. Any L/libertarian candidate who wastes the small amount of “face time” he or she gets babbling about the Fed will be doing a severe disservice to the party and to the movement, while accomplishing nothing whatsoever in terms of actually dismantling the Fed.

    For the record, per discussions we’ve had, I can attest that Steve Kubby favors a free market in monetary instruments, constrained only by a prohibition on force and fraud (with government’s role in administering that prohibition as minimal as possible, versus market administration through reputation effects and such).

    Tom Knapp

  52. Jake Porter Says:

    What are your state coordinators, um … coordinating?

    I’m not trying to be facetious here. I intend the question seriously.

    Tom,

    Great question. We could get 50 state coordinators, and one in D.C. very quick, but we want to make sure the coordinators want the position and they can handle the responsibility and get things done. Chief of Staff Charles Wilhoit and I both have similar ideas on how we want the campaign to be organized and are main goal is to make sure things get done.

    I will name a few things our state coordinators are doing: sending press releases, distributing campaign materials to members and non LP members, contacting possible volunteers both within and not within the party. In a few states we have developed a campaign group where we have enough volunteers for the state coordinator to delegate responsibility to other volunteers.

  53. Eric Donfascist Says:

    Less than $20K? HAH!

    Anyone who does not have at least $100 million should not even be allowed to run for office, unless they are a Top Celebrity.

    There ought to be a law. That would be very Mainstream, and very Libertarian in my world.

  54. matt Says:

    hahaha

  55. Joey Dauben Says:

    All this griping about Phillies vs. Kubbyhole won’t solve anything.

    The LP is a lost cause for 2008, I’m sorry to say it.

    Bring on Ron Paul!

  56. George Phillies Says:

    Liberty for America

    I made the decision that it would be better if I did not own http://www.LibertyForAmerica.NET . It was meant to be a non-candidate general Libertarian site, to match in style Daily Kos, which for strong technical reasons is much more effective than a LastFreeVoice style site is.

    I bought the advertising that was to pay the website owner and programmer to bring it up. I will pay when it is fully functional, which as you can see has not yet happened. In the mean time, the owner has asked that people not advertise the site, because it is not yet fully functional.

    However, Liberty for America is actually there, and you can post on it, even though I have not yet put my money into it. I anticipate that by this Summer there will one way or another be an effective Daily-Kos style Libertarian site up and running.

    Some of you may note that I do own LibertyForAmerica.COM, which hosts a whole bunch of other groups, including http://www.cmlc.org , which has both of my books and all back issues of Let Freedom Ring! and Libertarian Strategy Gazette. In January 2007, CMLC.org had around 6000 unique visitors, and downloaded approximately 2500 back issues of the two magazines.

    Meanwhile, Steve and Wayne and even the real Eric are welcome to post on the Beta Test of http://www.LibertyForAmerica.Net .

  57. Eric Dondero Says:

    George, lose the cheesy looking New England leaves turning colors graphics on your blog. Just a suggestion.

    As for Knapp, I feel your pain my brother. Must really suck having to go on websites begging for $10 here and there to fill up your gas tank so you can drive your Presidential candidate to a neighboring state for a campaign event.

    Tom, no offense Dude, but it’s time to throw the towel in on that losing campaign.

    You don’t like Root. Fine. Go with this Jingozian guy. He sounds rather wealthy and has a decent resume.

    Or Doug Stanhope.

    Stanhope, Root or Jingozian would be far better than the guy you’re backing.

    I almost feel so sorry for you that even I might send you that $10.

  58. Robert Milnes Says:

    Joey, interesting that you say “The LP is a lost cause for 2008, ...”. Tom & I developed a strategy & I did the math for a VERY close victory for the LP in 2008. & RP loses in all scenarios. Where have you been?

  59. Andy Says:

    “Actually, it is an exceedingly minor issue from the perspective of electoral politics.

    I’m a hard money/non-fiat-currency/anti-central-banking guy myself, but I would be surprised to learn that as many as 1 in 100 American voters give a tinker’s damn about the Fed one way or the other.”

    Tom, I agree that there aren’t many people that have a clue about the Federal Reserve (which is a big part of the problem that we are facing), however, I still think that candidates for federal offices should have positions on it. Even if the candidate choses to not make this issue a big part of their campaign they should at the very least issue a policy statement about it.

    Maybe instead of running from the huge issue, candidates should talk about it. Educate the public about the enormous damage that the Federal Reserve does to the country. Aaron Russo does this in his movie “America: From Freedom To Fascism”. This is one reason I was hoping that he’d run again.

  60. Andy Says:

    “For the record, per discussions we’ve had, I can attest that Steve Kubby favors a free market in monetary instruments”

    Yeah, I heard Steve Kubby on one of those internet radio shows say that he wants to get rid of the Federal Reserve.

  61. Andy Says:

    “globalist_elitist Says:

    March 23rd, 2007 at 7:48 pm
    The Federal Reserve is the root of the nation’s prosperity; not its ills.”

    If you believe this you are either an idiot or a plant, whichever the case may be you are NOT a libertarian by any stretch of the imagination.

    For the REAL scoop on the Federal Reserve read G. Edward Griffin’s excellent book, “The Creature From Jekyll Island: A Second Look At The Federal Reserve” which is available at www.realityzone.com.

  62. Andy Says:

    Here’s a link directly to the book I mentioned above. I highly reccomend ordering it, reading it, and spreading the word about it.

    http://www.realityzone.com./creature.html

  63. Darcy Richardson Says:

    Hey Eric,

    Steve Kubby may not have deep pockets, but at least he didn’t fail in at least a dozen business ventures like Wayne Allyn Root. If you weren’t aware of your candidate’s abysmal record in business and industry before he stumbled onto his somewhat dubious career as a so-called “sports handicapper”—- and one, incidentally, who’s never used a legitimate monitoring service—- you should try reading his earlier book, “The Joy of Failure” (The Summit Publishing Group, 1996).

    In his book, Root candidly explains how he had at least twelve businesses and career opportunities that “went under” before he was thirty-five years of age. It was one failure after another and, like George W. Bush—- one of his heroes—- his investors frequently lost everything. Yet, also like Bush, he always managed to find new suckers, er, I mean, investors.

    Hell, the “Millionaire Republican” with his shady Las Vegas-based “boiler-room” operation almost makes the incompetent Bush — a man who single-handedly drove Arbusto Energy and Spectrum 7 into the ground before Harken Energy purchased his failing oil business, and later, as a partner in the Texas Rangers, bilked the taxpayers of Arlington, Texas, out of $135 million—- look like a savvy businessman. And that’s a difficult thing to do, especially considering Dubya experienced one business failure after another for nearly two decades, embarrassingly bailed out each time by shamelessly trading on his family’s name.

  64. Andy Says:

    “Andy – For what it’s worth, I do not like Giuliani or Schwarzenegger. But they are both pro-choice, pro-gay. Ron Paul is not. End of discussion.”

    What in the hell is “pro-gay”? That sounds to me like granting special privaledges to certain groups, certainly not a pro-freedom position. If a person said that they were “pro-white” or “pro-Christian” you’d probably pitch a bitch fit and call them all kinds of names, yet it’s OK to be “pro-gay”. You are a “politically correct” hypocrite.

    I think that gays have individual rights, but I think that everyone should have individual rights. I think that gays should be able to get married, but I don’t believe that anyone should have to get a government marriage license.

    As I’ve stated and proven on numerous occassions, abortion is not a definitional libertarian issue because one can not prove when life begins and when individual rights begin. I don’t define a person as a libertarian based on their abortion stance.

    Since Ron Paul is running for a federal office, his abortion stance is not very relavent because believes that abortion should be left to the states. So even if Ron Paul were to get elected the worst thing that would happen (from your standpoint on this issue) is that the abortion would go back to the states and maybe a few states would ban it. I’d be willing to be that it would still be legal in most states. People who happen to live in a state where abortion was banned could just go to a state where it was legal. So I don’t see what the big crisis here is going by your view.

    If you take all of the issues across the board Ron Paul is FAR MORE pro-liberty than Schwarzenegger and Giuliani. In fact, I don’t even consider Schwarzenegger or Giuliani to be pro-liberty at all. I’d say that they are both bottom of the Nolan chart authoritarians.

    Ron Paul is for gun rights and he’s got the highest possible rating on gun rights from Gun Owners of America.

    Schwarzenegger and Giuliani are for gun control. They believe that the state should take guns away from innocent people.

    Ron Paul wants to bring the military home and stop getting involved in foreign conflicts.

    Schwarzenegger and Giuliani are both warmongering military imperialist.

    Ron Paul opposes The Patriot Act, the Department of Homeland Security, the REAL ID Act, the Military Commissions Act, NSA domestic spying, and every other police state measure taken in the name of the “War On Terror”.

    Schwarzenegger and Giuliani are both big supporters of police state legislation and in fact want more of it.

    Ron Paul opposes the “War On Drugs” and is listed by NORML and MPP as being a candidate who is friendly to legislation to end marijuana prohibition.

    Schwarzenegger and Giuliani both support the Drug War.

    Ron Paul has recieved the highest possible rating for several years in a row from The National Tax Payers Union (a group that advocates for less taxes and spending) and given they even gave him the title of “The Tax Payers Best Friend”.

    Under Schwarzenegger and Giuliani government continued to grow bigger and bigger.

    Anyone who can’t see that Ron Paul is far more pro-liberty than Schwarzenegger and Giuliani is either a FOOL or has an anti-liberty agenda that they are pushing.

  65. Darcy Richardson Says:

    The love of money is only a symptom, it’s “Millionaire Republicans” who are really the ROOT of all evil.

    If the Libertarians seriously consider Wayne Root’s candidacy, then it’s time for a second Boston Tea Party!

  66. Kn@ppster Says:

    Quoth Bob Milnes:

    “Joey, interesting that you say ‘The LP is a lost cause for 2008, ...’. Tom & I developed a strategy & I did the math for a VERY close victory for the LP in 2008. & RP loses in all scenarios. Where have you been?”

    Just to clarify:

    – Bob Milnes advocates a “progressive alliance” strategy under which the Greens and the LP would support the same presidential/vice-presidential ticket.

    I’d love to see that happen, but it’s a very dicey proposition. Essentially, the two parties would have to nominate a slate that runs on/heavily emphasizes issues the parties agree on (for example, withdrawal from Iraq, freedom of immigration, ending the war on drugs, and ending corporate welfare), and set aside issues on which the two parties are very much in disagreement (for example, socialized health care and “public” education).

    – I don’t support Bob’s particular approach to the possibilities, insofar as his campaign platform would require the two parties to run on issues position that neither party supports (continued US intervention in the Middle East, Know-Nothingism, freakish eugenics programs and racist “resettlement” proposals). Not only do I find his platform odious in the extreme, but I simply don’t see any likelihood that either the LP or the Greens would abandon what they both believe in order to mutually endorse it.
    – Bob’s math on winning the 2008 presidential election with a “progressive alliance” ticket is pure moonshine fantasy.
    – While Bob has certainly added some interesting notions to the subject matter of left/libertarian alliances, it would be flatly false to ascribe the idea in general to him, to me, or to us. Libertarianism in America was originally a “left” movement in the 19th century under the tutelage of Benjamin Tucker et al. Rothbard and Co. concentrated heavily on left/right synthesis in the 60s, Karl Hess went from the Goldwater campaign to Students for a Democratic Society during the same timeframe, and the orientation of the “Kochtopus” and the Libertarian Party in the late 1970s was outreach toward the left, not the right—Cato/Koch sponsored magazines featuring left-oriented analysis, and the 1980 Clark campaign, the most successful LP presidential campaign so far, described libertarianism as “low-tax liberalism,” clearly placing a traditionally “right” modifier on a traditionally “left” overall orientation, not vice-versa.

    Regards,
    Tom Knapp

  67. Eric Donfascist Says:

    All this griping about Phillies vs. Kubbyhole won’t solve anything.

    The LP is a lost cause for 2008, I’m sorry to say it.

    Bring on Ron Paul!

    The problem with George Phillies and Steve Kubbyhole is the same as with my former boss Ron Paul who used to paddle my bare bottom and drop pens for me to pick up (God I miss that) and it is that they are all Islamo-Fascist Leftist Anti-Americans.

    We need strong, rugged, handsome, Pro-Defense candidates. Ones with rippling muscles and big bulges in their pants. If they don’t have $100 million it should be illegal for them to even consider running for President. In fact I think it should be illegal for Leftist Anti-Americans like Kubbyhole, Phillies and Paul to run for office just because they hate America. They should just be treated as Enemy Combatants along with everyone else who is against the War on Terror. If you are not with us you are with the terrorists!

    We could still have elections, of course. There is no reason why we can’t have Wayne Root declared right now by Executive Order to be the next Libertarian candidate, and Giuliani could be declared to be next Republican candidate by signing statement. After that the Supreme Court could declare a pro-America Democrat like Zell Miller or Joe Lieberman to be the next Donkey candidate. We could even have a cool Rocker like Dale Thompson run on the Constution Party ticket.

    But we would probably just have to ban the Green Party and Ralph Nader.

    Then we could decide the whole thing with hanging chads.

    It would be totally rad and very Mainstream Libertarian!

  68. globalist_elitist Says:

    Andy – All good and true, RE: Paul. But the “worst thing that would happen” is that the federal government would stop recognizing and protecting a woman’s ownership of her own body – it should not be “left to states.” Do you believe in human rights or government’s rights?

    And secondly, if by some miracle Ron Paul were elected, and if by some miracle he could do what he would want to do – goodbye prosperity, hello handplow. He is a regressive anti-growth, anticapitalist. I don’t like Wayne Allyn Root (what a fucking knob), but I don’t think that “milliinoaires” are the root of all evil. In fact, they’re the root of most good. Pro-growth economic policies produce more of them and more good. Ron Paul’s 18th century economic views will have us back in the 18th century – which is where Christian wackos like him want us to be.

  69. Wes Benedict Says:

    Gee, Eric Donfascist, perhaps you could help me lampoon the Libertarian Reform Caucus.

    http://wesbenedictforlnc.blogspot.com/2007/03/i-hereby-reject-cult-of-omnipotent.html

  70. Eric Donfascist Says:

    I’m a big supporter of the Reform Caucus. What do you mean by “help”?

  71. Robert Milnes Says:

    Tom, you are much too modest. You are quite the expert on LP bylaws, which I find onerous. And you almost ARE the Kubby campaign, much to my chagrin. I don’t think setting up negotiations to end the war as “...continued U.S. intervention in the Middle East..”. And I see the present chaos of human reproduction as freakish rather than what science and rational consensus voluntary programs could be. And I must say that to merely mention race does not automatically make one a racist. That is an unfortunate affect of politically correct mini speak. My math comes almost exclusively from the Cato Institute study “The Libertarian Vote”, not moonshine or even marijuana fantasy. My apologies that 34+33+33=100.

  72. Wes Benedict Says:

    I know what I mean.

  73. globalist_elitist Says:

    Milnes = Another Malthusian dolt.

    Forget the Republican War on Science, how about the “progressive” War on History?

  74. Kn@ppster Says:

    Bob,

    Either you haven’t read the Cato study, or you didn’t understand the Cato study. Let me know which, so I can know whether to provide you with a link, or whether to explain to you why what you think you see there isn’t there.

    You’re correct—“mentioning race” doesn’t make you a racist. You aren’t just “mentioning race,” however. You’re suggesting “eugenics programs” to create “racial parity” between whites and American Indians, and paying black people to move “back” to Africa. Those proposals are structurally racist, period, end of story — and neither of them, by the way, is likely to play well with “the libertarian voter” identified in the Cato study or, for that matter, any other identifiable or approachable voter bloc, especially including the 1/3 of 1% or so who already vote Libertarian in presidential elections.

    Regards,
    Tom Knapp

  75. Wes Benedict Says:

    Chase, is that you?

  76. Robert Milnes Says:

    Tom, You advocate the same old same old for Native Americans & the election cycle i.e. continued defacto genocide & guaranteed progressive candidates losing en masse (again). Rather than try something. I guess I do not understand because I thought you were not that dumb. I read the Cato study. Therefore at issue:you say I must not have understood. I can very briefly here state my understanding & consequent proposal. You can then very briefly state how that is misunderstanding, because there is not much I misunderstood and you are so astute. The American voters, faced with another voting cycle & realizing their torment with the dem/rep duopoly & with their eternal hope for better, look to the progressives(libertarians) and are willing to vote libertarian at a consistent 20% (Gallup Governance Poll). Analysis of that revealed 13% greater libertarian(mostly rightist) vote. By logic I conclude the remainder -7%are leftists willing to vote libertarian(political identity convergence and/or confusion) and/or afraid to vote leftist (fear of revolution). So, 34% being the minimum needed to win in a three way race, I looked for that 14%. Since the rightist (greater libertarian) vote is played out (ABM-already been mined), one must look to the left. There is about that much which could be “mined” & consolidated by the green party. They, upon seeing that their vote mattered, need not throw away their vote & choose only between the lesser of two evils, had a third choice, the progressive movement. i.e. vote for the libertarian executive ticket (better if green party endorsed)& EITHER green or libertarian on ALL other ballots. But, since that has not been tried, & will not (?), they gradually fall into the previous cycle pattern & vote dem/rep.

  77. Kn@ppster Says:

    Bob,

    Here’s the key to your misunderstanding:

    “The American voters, faced with another voting cycle & realizing their torment with the dem/rep duopoly & with their eternal hope for better, look to the progressives(libertarians) and are willing to vote libertarian at a consistent 20% (Gallup Governance Poll).”

    Um, no.

    Here’s what the Cato study actually says:

    “The Gallup Governance Survey consistently finds about 20 percent of respondents giving libertarian answers to a two-question screen.”

    It’s a big stretch to go from “X% of voters are identifiable as libertarians based on their answers to a couple of policy questions” to “X% of voters are willing to abandon major party voting in order to support a third party candidate who best reflects their views.”

    In point of fact, the Cato study tracked switches of allegiance between major party candidates, and the election results speak for themselves as to who portion of that libertarian component of the vote goes third party at this time.

    Your first mistake is in assuming that voter attitudes on policy issues automatically translate into a willingness to vote third party. It’s not that simple.

    Your second mistake is believing that, even assuming that “the libertarian voter” or “the progressive voter” IS willing to go third party, that he would do so in order to support a candidate (you) whose policy proposals not only don’t correlate with, but directly conflict with, the very things that IDENTIFY him as a “libertarian voter” or “progressive voter.”

    Barring some kind of political cataclysm which we cannot predict and are powerless to intentionally bring about, we’re a long way from fashioning the 20% “libertarian vote” into a partisan bloc, and even further from augmenting that 20% to a plurality as such a bloc. The “shared executive ticket/cross-voting on ballot access criteria” thing isn’t inherently a bad idea if common ground can be found to base it on (as opposed to you suggestion of basing it on proposals that neither party supports), but there’s simply no reason to believe that it would magically move LP and Green vote totals from single digits (and even sub-single-percent rates) to pluralities.

    Regards,
    Tom Knapp

  78. Eric Donfascist Says:

    There can never be any talk of a coalition with Leftist America Haters.
    They are our enemy. E-N-E-M-Y! Look, don’t you people know 9/11 changed everything?!

    If we DON’T completely change the landscape of how we live, we might as well hand the terrorists a white flag, because we already bowed to them.

    The terrorists hate us for our freedom. Giving up our rights as humans in order to be kept safe is the essence of freedom. The fact that we, as patriotic Americans, can stand united in giving Government all the tools necessary to fight terrorism and protect our safety, shows that we are fighting for our freedom to serve our country, which means we are not letting the terrorists win.

    “Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of
    every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of
    discretion about what you do and how you do it.”
    —Rudy Giuliani, mainstream libertarian

    The terrorists don’t want us to be free to serve our country. They don’t want us to be free to fight terrorism. They don’t want us to be free to round up anyone who opposes the war on terrorism and the Commander in Chief and put them in Freedom Through Work™ camps, a joint venture of Halliburton (NYSE: HAL) and Corrections Corporation of America (NYSE: CXW).

    You’re either with us or you’re with the terrorists. We are not going to let the terrorists and America-haters win! We will cleanse this country of their impure Semitic middle eastern filth, and those who will not fight to protect our Homeland against them! We will implement a final solution to the Muslim problem! And no one will be allowed to sit on the fence in this fight for our Homeland’s security. If you sit on the fence, we will push you over the fence into the camps.

    Hail to the Commander in Chief!

  79. Robert Milnes Says:

    Tom, ok, agreed that there is no proof that these “homeless” voters would be able to break from their programming & actually vote libertarian. But how about trying it & seeing what happens? There is no proof it won’t work either. & You correctly say what the study concludes that the best way to reach these libertarian inclined voters is via positions. I’m proposing quite on my own another possible factor. If offered a third alternative that actually has a reasonable chance of winning, they would switch. Knowing the choice is a losing one is I submita very big factor. Further, I think the leftist vote FOR a leftist candidate is suppressed by a general fear of revolution i.e. that the leftist candidate might actually win(as in say Chile). Hence to swing the green (leftist) vote to the libertarian(progressive) ticket should be possible. The critical factor in keeping this 20% partisan bloc & building a plurality is that. I would suggest a joint press conference to announce green/libertarian cooperation to get this significantly started. You criticize some of my positions as not knee-jerk green OR libertarian hence counterproductive. But they are my positions.

  80. Tom Blanton Says:

    Wow, it sounds like the big LP confab in Orlando was a schmoozfest for recovering Republicrats: Richard Viguerie, Bob Barr, Wayne Allyn Root, Shane Cory. Where the hell was Neal Boortz? What about Eric Donfascist? Why wasn’t Rudy G there, yo?

    Barr revealed his secret plan to make the LP competitive in a few decades, but nobody spelled out the secret LP plan to make Republicrats enact new laws regarding ballot access, fundraising, and proportional representation that will make campaigning more competitive – against them.

    I don’t blame Kubby for not showing up – they would have probably had him busted or sent to Gitmo.

    Maybe it is time for the LP to roll out a common sense mainstream agenda that real right-wing Americans can get behind :

    1. An Iraq war timetable that calls for the troops withdrawing in 2036
    2. A Fair Tax of 30% and reducing the deficit to $250 billion by 2025
    3. Legalize medical marijuana for those who have less than 6 weeks to live
    4. Work camps for Mexicans and Muslims

    Throw in a few bonus issues like restoring gun rights for white Christians, allow gay partnerships for men on death row, and allowing warrantless surveillance only when it is reasonable – then the disgruntled Republicans might vote for an LP candidate.

    But, under no circumstances should libertarians ever attempt to educate voters about the true nature of totalitarian government, taxes, fiat money, the war on terror, or any other radical concepts.

    A new LP slogan would also be helpful, something like: Give Me Baby Steps Or Give Me Death!

  81. globalist_elitist Says:

    Classic post by Tom Blanton. As Jim Rome would say “rack him.”

  82. Gary Odom Says:

    UA/Global_elistist is a jungle dweller? Hard to believe. It’s almost impossible to believe a person who looks at the world like you do could be a sports fan.

    Speaking of sports, lete me take this opportunity to say—GO UCLA. Let’s beat that big ugly girl with a pony tail and the rest of the GATORS. (I, too, was, in Orlando over the weekend—actually Ocala—and I had to sit with a bunch of insufferable Florida fans at a restaurant and watch them celebrate after their team lucked out again.

  83. Trent Hill Says:

    I like UCLA. They gave USC the upset we (LSU) wanted this year.
    USC is pretty much our volatile enemy. The only people we hate more than USC is Auburn, Alabama, and Florida (only during league play,then we wish them well).

  84. Eric Cartman Donfascist Says:

    There is no enemy except the Jihadists. Oh yeah and the antiwar American fifth column.

  85. Eric Dondero Says:

    Yeah, you’re right Darcy. Root has failed in many businesses. But if you’ve read his book you’d know that’s his whole schtick. He pounds over and over again on the theory that you must fail in life to ultimately succeed. I agree with him. I’ve had some doozies of failures. And it build character. Makes one stronger.

    That’s quite a powerful message for him to spread. He’d be a cinch for the business/motivational crowd.

  86. globalist_elitist Says:

    It’s hard to believe that someone who likes capitalism could like sports?

    To me, it’s hard to believe that someone obsessed with the 1890s could like sports.

  87. globalist_elitist Says:

    Dondero – Giuliani was on Kudlow & Company yesterday. He gave all of the right answers on economics questions. He sounds like he could be the pro-growth candidate, especially assuming Richardson does not win for the Dems. So question to you: Are you going to support him or Root if both win their nominations?

  88. Trent Hill Says:

    GE just said he liked Guliani.

    I need not say ANYTHING ELSE.

  89. globalist_elitist Says:

    I didn’t say I liked him. I said he sounded like the pro-growth candidate. But that doesn’t mean I like him. I implied I liked his views on taxes and spending, but that doesn’t mean I like him. I don’t. And I don’t like him for the exact opposite reason that you don’t like him – I don’t believe that he really is pro-choice or pro-gay-rights, or at least, I don’t believe he will govern as if he is. And one area where we will agree – I don’t like him because of his pro-war and anti-gun views.

    That said, as someone who has made a total of one vote for the GOP (and that was only to spite my Democratic state rep) in his life, I don’t doubt that Giuliani may be the lesser of two evils on Election Day. Barack Obama and John Edwards are economic disaster-makers of the Ron Paul/Tom Tancredo variety.

  90. Eric Cartman Donfascist Says:

    He shoots and…wait…he scores! YES!

    I always knew Global Elitists and Mainstream Libertarians had a lot in common. Giuliani all the way, baby!

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