Minnesota Constitution Party rejects disaffiliation

The Minnesota CP held a special state-wide meeting on Saturday. A proposal for Minnesota to disaffiliate from the national Constitution Party was brought forward by former CP Senatorial candidate Ben Powers. And was soundly rejected by the Party, prompting Mr. Powers to leave the CPMN in a resignation that was a tirade about Mormons and Christopher Hansen, the Nevada IAP Chairman.


“Chris Hansen is a zealous member of the Church of Jesus Christ
> of Latter-day Saints, a pseudo-Christian cult that believes in continuing
> revelation from its President/Prophet that supersedes all previous revelation
> including the Holy Bible and their own Book of Mormon. Members of this
> corporation are more colloquially referred to as Mormons.”

His haughty email was afterwards concluded with a delusive anti-Mormon website.
The Minnesota Party will not be mourning the loss of its former ineffective candidate.
Idaho, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Florida and other state affiliates of the Constitution Party have already voted down disaffiliation resolutions. Some states that have already left the Constitution Party already have new affiliates up and running, such as New York, Missouri, Ohio, and Arkansas. Other states are being reorganized as of present.

74 Responses to “Minnesota Constitution Party rejects disaffiliation”

  1. Cody Quirk Says:

    I’ll will have the MN disaffiliation vote results availible soon.

  2. CPMNmember Says:

    I was the primary speaker opposed to the Powers resolution to disaffiliate.

    While I believe Mr. Powers did himself little favor using his time to bash Mormons, and while I have been in disagreement with him on this issue for quite some time, Mr. Powers will be missed indeed. There has been no one in MN who has sacrificed as much as he in the cause of the reestablishment of ordered liberty. You are not doing anyone any favors by lashing back at him. I would like to humbly suggest that you try “turning the other cheek’ on this one.

    John Robillard

  3. Cody Quirk Says:

    His resignation email sounds also similar to Scott Whiteman’s,

    http://www.theamericanview.com/index.php?id=628

    though not as insane.

  4. SovereignMN Says:

    I agree with John. I do not agree with Ben Powers on this issue but I will miss his involvement with the party (and anyone else who decides to leave as well). It was not very kind to take a cheapshot at Ben Powers candidacy for USSenate. He put in a lot of time, effort and money to run a statewide campaign last year and he is to be commended for that.

    I consider those who favored disaffiliation to still be allies. If they come to the conclusion that they need to cease involvement with the party then I wish them luck in their next endeavors.

    My big regret from the meeting this weekend is the overwhelming decision to amend the resolution to remove all disaffiliation language. So the resolution that was voted on was nothing more than a “we’re upset at Nevada” vote. Although I am against disaffiliation I would have liked to see a straight up/down vote.

  5. Cody Quirk Says:

    I think you should also see that such people didn’t want certain people in the CP and even worked to remove those whose religious beliefs didn’t conform 100% with the Party Platform, or even the teachings of John Calvin or fundamentalist christians.

    With such people gone from the Party, the CP can attrack more conservatives to its ranks and become more organized then ever before.
    I’m even sure you’ll get a few right-wing operatives from the Independence Party to cross over eventually.

    If you miss people that may have worked their butts off for the party, yet only for their own agenda or exclusively for people who proscribe to their views, then I hope you quickly get over their departure within hours. The CPMN will get better people soon.

    And it appears that Ben truely received the smallest percentage of the vote out of all the 2006 CP Minnesota candidates, in fact he may have received the smallest percentage of votes of ANY CP candidate in the November 2006 Elections. Yet my state Party’s candidate for Governor, who had not much to spend, received nearly zero publicity, and had a Libertarian candidate mirroring his views on immigration, taking votes away from us- Ed Noonan still got more votes, and a higher percentage then Ben.

    0.25%? That is ineffective. And yet I did use restraint in my article on him. Even though with what he has said about my faith, my friends, and my party, he deserved such remarks.

  6. Sean Scallon Says:

    What all of this means that basically if you strip away all the talk abortion what the Nevada dispute was REALLY about was Mormonism in general. Why would he even mention the LDS if the issue was about the party’s plank on abortion? I can understand if some members were upset that one state party decided to go in opposite direction that the national and most state parties were going in in construction of a no-exceptions abortion plank. But if you are a decentralist like I am, you don’t kick-out such a state party, you work within it for change or try to convince party members to change. Unfortunately, many CP members are bloody-minded nationalists who are not opposed to Lincoln-style enforcment mechanisms if you gave one of them the chance to be Commander-in-Chief.

    But if you listen to and read rhetoric of Mr. Powers and his allies, you realize what they’re really upset about is Mormons and how Mormons have a prominent place in Nevada CP. The CP could probably recruit even Mormons to its standard given how the Baptists and Pentacostalists in the GOP hate their guts. But that’s the rub isn’t it?

    If comes down to choosing Mormons vs. Calvinists in the CP I’ll take the Mormons every day of the week. Since the Calvinists outside the one’s in Michigan’s GOP are not serious political people to begin with, it’s a no-brainer.

  7. Gary Odom Says:

    I agree with John Robillard. While I am glad the disaffiliation motion was defeated it is really time to tone down the rhetoric and work to build a Constitution Party that is taking on the two-headed monster (GOPS and DEMS) and not each other. Continued shots a people, many of whom are no longer party of the party are not in our best interests. That is not to defend many of these people who I disagree strongly with, but because it is simply time to move forward.

    By the way, Rick Jore will be speaking at our National Committee meeting in Boise, as will Chris Simcox of the Minuteman Civei Defense Corps.

  8. Anthony Distler Says:

    You can’t weep over this guy. Did he work hard? Yes. But it turned out that he’s also crazy. The Minnesota Contitution Party will be better off without him, I’ll guarentee you.

  9. Trent Hill Says:

    Cody, .25% is enough to make or break an election for the Republican. So I disagree with you there.
    While I agree with you that his cheap-shot against mormons was uncalled for, you should just turn the other cheek. Be the bigger man.

  10. SovereignMN Says:

    0.25% is ineffective but it’s all about context. 0.25% is 100% better than the CPMN has performed in recent statewide elections.

    Here are all the CPMN statewide candidates since 2000. Powers did significantly better than all previous candidates with the exception of David Swan.

    2000 Swan (US Senate), 0.37%, 8915 votes
    2000 Phillips (President), 0.13%, 3272 votes
    2002 AESHLIMAN & Houle (Gov/LtGov), 0.11%, 2537 votes
    2002 DRAGO KOVATCHEVICH (US Senate), 0.10%, 2254 votes
    2004 Peroutka (President), 0.11%, 3074 votes
    2006 Powers (US Senate), 0.25%, 5408 votes

    I’m an evangelical Baptist and have a pretty negative view towards the Mormon church myself. But a political party is not the place for that subject. If a Mormon is committed to restoring Constitutional governance, including the overturning of RoeVWade then I can work with them. The Founding Fathers who were Christian seemed to be able to work pretty well with the Diests who shared similar feelings about King George. I don’t think they were compromising their faith by signing the same Declaration of Independence that Diests were signing.

    The CPMN will continue to move forward. We’re doing some nice things in this State.

  11. Cody Quirk Says:

    Yup

  12. Cody Quirk Says:

    (I was agreeing with Anthony)

  13. Cody Quirk Says:

    If a Mormon is committed to restoring Constitutional governance, including the overturning of RoeVWade then I can work with them. The Founding Fathers who were Christian seemed to be able to work pretty well with the Diests who shared similar feelings about King George.

    =Obviously Ben doesn’t have that attitude.

  14. Cody Quirk Says:

    Trent, the 2006 US Senate factor in Minnesota wasn’t even close, in fact it was a near landslide for the Dem/FL candidate.

    Ben got 5th place, the only thing that got less vote then him were the write-ins.

    IF he got 3% or more, then maybe. Or if the race was very close, like a few thousand votes apart between the major party candidates, but it wasn’t.

  15. Cody Quirk Says:

    Why would he even mention the LDS if the issue was about the party’s plank on abortion?

    =Without delving into The American View forum or other private chatroom archives, that was the dead giveaway.

  16. Cody Quirk Says:

    And the anti-mormon cartoon didn’t really help his resignation letter.

  17. SovereignMN Says:

    What was the anti-Mormon cartoon?

  18. SovereignMN Says:

    =Obviously Ben doesn’t have that attitude.

    Agreed, which is unfortunate.

  19. Cody Quirk Says:

    Ben had this as a link with his resignation…

    http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0061/0061_01.asp

    I also included it in my article.

    The cartoon is completely obtuse on LDS beliefs, however.

    Very obtuse.

  20. matt Says:

    Cody,
    Are you going to write news reports on this site, or are you going to editorialize and insult people?

    I don’t care very much at all whether you think some guy’s email is “haughty”, or that his speech was a “tirade”, or that some website is “delusive”.

    I come to this site for information. Recently, I’ve been getting vindictive ad hominems dressed up as new articles. Save that crap for the comment threads like the rest of us do.

  21. Trent Hill Says:

    Matt,

    Why shouldn’t Cody be allowed to state his opinion in the blog?
    It gave you the information that was important, CPMN did not dissafilliate and he even gave a link to the raw information.

  22. matt Says:

    Cody,
    For the record, I agree with you on the disaffiliation issue.

    That being said, it would be nice if you provided a point-by-point refutation of the claims in the cartoon that you are so quick to call obtuse.

  23. Anthony Distler Says:

    Cody and I disagree on a lot of issues. However, I have to stand up for him on this one. He did put news on the site, telling everyone what happened in the Minnesota Constitution Party. He posted his own opinion on there, yes, but that’s the point of most blogs. At politics1.com, which I hold all other political sites to, Ron posts his own opinion on different stories and news things. Austin, who runs the whole site, obviously knew what he was doing when he brought Cody abord.

  24. Sean Scallon Says:

    Look, I met Ben Powers during the 2006 Minnesota CP State Convention while trying to sell my book and he’s good man with a good family and he worked his tail off during the 2006 campaign. But on this issue he’s wrong and in the end he’s going to out with the same amount of bitterness as every other Peroutkaite is, with a blast at the LDS. It’s sad because you do lose someone who was dedicated and hard working. How do replace someone like that? You just have to move on but with some sadness nonetheless.

    For someone who initial impression of the CP was that they were a group of conservatives digruntled with the GOP, how they’re internal struggle got turned into a Mormon vs. Calvin fight is pretty strange. I would love for CP member who posts here to provide a history of the party to sort of explain how this all came about. Calvinists are not big part of the American Christian scene nor even the conservative American Christian scene, so in a way its amazing they’ve had so much influence on the CP as a whole.

    Maybe it’s inevitable that the party’s growth over the years led to this ultimate battle. Certainly the national party did not want to get rid of a state party like Nevada that had impressive growth numbers if you believe Hanson’s figures. Ultimatley this struggle comes down what CP members want their party to become. Do they want to be a strictly sectarian party with roots in a particluar branch of Christianity or more inclusive than that. Obviously a party can’t be all things to all people, but successful parties, even non-major ones have always include different kinds of voters who share certain economic, political and social interests (including religion). Right now Mormons would be a ripe target for the CP to recruit into their ranks (especially Romney campaign crashes and burns, but NOT for reason of religion alone).

    Plus, there are many conservatives out there who are disgruntled with the GOP, but who never set foot inside a church. Does this mean they’re less conservative? No, it just means they’re not very religious. Now, if you’re a member of the Minnesota CP, and you’re trying to recruit such people into the party, do you think having your state convention at a Christian school is the right choice to make them feel comfortable? Again, it comes back to what kind of party do you want to be? Strictly sectarian? At least religiously influenced or affiliated within a secular structure? Militantly sectarian (such as those parties on the left)? These are the questions the CP needs to answer. Hopefully they can find the right one’s to continue to be one of the top non-major parties in the country because the last thing conservatives of all stripes need is more splintering into weaker, smaller and narrower parties.

  25. Kn@ppster Says:

    Matt,

    You wrote (to Cody):

    “it would be nice if you provided a point-by-point refutation of the claims in the cartoon that you are so quick to call obtuse.”

    Of what possible use would such a refutation be?

    FWIW, the Chick tract referred to is mostly accurate in its factual claims with respect to Mormon doctrine (although most criticisms I’ve seen tend to regard Mormonism more as a pantheist, semi-Hindu faith rather than as “Baal worship” or neo-Catholicism). But …

    Modern evangelical Christianity of the type seemingly espoused by Constitution Party types is even more distantly related to the forms of Christianity practiced in Revolution-era America than Mormonism is.

    Mormonism was a home-grown American faith of the early – to mid-19th century.

    Modern evangelical Christianity (as exemplified by Pentecostalism and the “charismatic” movement, which have also largely infected the Baptist denominations with their bizarre beliefs) is pretty much a hybrid of the late 19th-century “Holiness Movment” and the imported African/Voudon practices of the freed slaves, and didn’t really start coming together until the early 20th century with the Azusa Street revival in Los Angeles and a similar movement in Kansas.

    A late 18th-century American Congregationalist, Methodist or Unitarian would lkikely consider both strains of “Christianity” absurd, heretical, satanic and incompatible with the beliefs of the founders. Perhaps Mormonism a little less so, since it at least incorporates elements of the freemasonry that was also part of many of the founders’ belief system. Then again, the slaveowner founders might recognize modern Pentecostal rites like “being filled with the Holy Ghost” as the direct descendant of their slaves’ own rituals of possession such as “being ridden by the loa.”

    It’s a strange world we live in.

    Regards,
    Tom Knapp

  26. Trent Hill Says:

    Sean Scallon you said “If you believe Hanson’s numbers”
    You dont have to believe his numbers, goto the Nevada Secretary of State’s website. They make up almost 4% of the elctorate.

  27. matt Says:

    Tom Knapp,
    Such a refutation wouldn’t be especially germane, but that’s just the point: neither was much of the article. It’s no good to rip on something (in this case, the link) and not give any reason for it.

    (In Re your comment)
    Those Chick tract folks call any and everything they dissaprove of “neo-catholicism”. For them, it’s just a synonym for “evil”, which is to say that they aren’t the most tolerant folks around. That said, I was just struck by the fact that they got LDS doctrine fairly right.

    I think a case could made that in mainstream evangelicalism, the self-help/positive thinking crowd has a more profound influence than african vodoun.

  28. Prester John Says:

    Sean, you made some good points and I would like to discuss them further with you. Please contact me at presterjohninva@yahoo.com

  29. SovereignMN Says:

    Sean Scallon wrote: “Now, if you’re a member of the Minnesota CP, and you’re trying to recruit such people into the party, do you think having your state convention at a Christian school is the right choice to make them feel comfortable?”

    I think this question is pretty silly. When I was a Republican our local caucus frequently met in various churches. You go where space is available, cheap and meets your criteria for accomodations. Now I’m not privvy to how much the Jefferson Christian School charges the CPMN for facility rental but I’m guessing it isn’t much. They also have a kitchen and banquet hall available for lunches/dinners.

    If a potential new member doesn’t feel comfortable stepping into a building just because it serves as a Christian school during the week and holds church services on Sunday then they probably aren’t going to have the stomach to make a meaningful contribution to the party anyway.

  30. Doctor Paul Wayne Snyder, PhD Says:

    Cody, Cody, Cody,

    JUST A LITTLE EVEN HANDEDNESS?

    You can EASILY use more neutral verbs, adverbs and adjectives to more fairly describe events. If you want to insult or propagandize or commentate you could EASILY do that with a paragraph of real news followed by a paragraph of “In My Humble Opinion” followed by more news followed by more blatant commentary!

    IMHO, Cody has yet to produce any thing besides wild eyed shrill sounding propaganda! He should be allowed to commend, but if I or Citizens For A Better Veterans Home[s] ran this flawed but wonderful look see on Non Democrat and Non GOP public policy, he would only be a Poster with a public warning of his background and lack of objectivity!

    ......and those promised non Reactionary, non Religious Fundamentalist, non Conservatives, non Right Wingers??????

  31. Sean Scallon Says:

    SoverignMN, you’re probably right I’m reading too much into it and yes major party cucuses in Minnesota have been held in churches so there’s no difference it all, it was just an observation I was making because I think the reason the type of conservative I was talking about does not readily join the CP is because they perceive it to be too sectarian. For a party on a shoestring, the Jefferson Christian School provides a nice sized-hall for a statewide gathering for virtually nothing to rent out for a day.

  32. matt Says:

    Trent,
    I agree that Cody has a 100% right to speak his mind, and he is doing a great service, but the barrier between news and commentary is sacred.

    Certainly I should have been a little less pissy, but I think the distinction is important.

  33. Jeff Says:

    I’m really not the one to into these “my sect is better than your’s”, but while I do not agree with the LDS or even believe in its tenets or doctrine, I can’t help but see the outright erroneous profession of faith in this piece of Calvinist propaganda. Mainly covering the end portion where the poor Aunt is praying the “Sinner Prayer” a pure Calvinist concoction that instantly brings on Salvation. Never mind the small commandment of Baptism, eh, elite Calvinist?

    Peter told a group of people who responded to his sermon (Acts 2:38), “Repent and let each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus…” In Acts 2:41 it records, “So then, those who had received his word were baptized…” Another example of this is Acts 8:12 “But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike.” Later in Acts 8 Philip preached the gospel to an Ethiopian eunuch. In response to the gospel message the eunuch said (v. 36b), “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?” Acts 10 recorded Peter’s first ministry to Gentiles. After sharing the gospel message with a Gentile named Cornelius and seeing him receive the Holy Spirit, Peter said (v. 47), “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?”

    The Apostles included the necessity of water baptism in their gospel presentation, making it a necessary condition for salvation. One believing baptism is necessary for salvation would argue that people were not baptized because they were already Christians but to become Christians. Consider the application of Peter’s first evangelistic message in Acts 2:38. He said, “Repent and let each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of your sins….” Peter didn’t say be baptized because you are a Christian, but be baptized so that your sins may be forgiven making water baptism necessary for salvation. Other examples of this include Acts 10:48; 19:1-7; and 22:16.

    And a host of others…

  34. Eric Donfascist Says:

    ......and those promised non Reactionary, non Religious Fundamentalist, non Conservatives, non Right Wingers??????

    Those would be leftists. In other words, anti-American, pro-jihadist, surrender monkeys. I say round ‘em up and gas ‘em.

    And I say this as a mainstream libertarian. The Constitution is good and all, but I think maybe we should make an exception and just allow W to appoint his own successor, as long as it’s Rudy Giuliani, without having to go through the formality of an election.

    It would save the taxpayers money, which all mainstream libertarians agree isof utmost importance, except when it comes to our national and homeland security.

    9/11 changed eerything, so if we miss one election, what’s the big deal anyway?

  35. Doctor Paul Wayne Snyder, PhD Says:

    He of many names, and not a Libertarian, and not a concervative, and not a Republican, and yet not much of any thing:

    Eric, Ah your Wild Man From the Mountains reputation lives on and on!

    So you would kill MILLIONS

  36. Doctor Paul Wayne Snyder, PhD Says:

    of American Citizens and residents of the USA because they disagree with your reactionary super right wing [nut] ideology?

    Austin is the one whom said that at more balanced approach was on the way [is Eric the Power Behind the Throne, the code writer behind the web site?]

    WTC, oh that September 2001 event preceded by warnings from dozens of FBI, CIA, and NSA agents and opporatives? Reread [December 18th] Time Magazine’s Man of the Year 2002, you 11th Century knuckle dragger!

  37. Eric Donfascist Says:

    Billions.

    Every muslim and anyone who has a problem with that, for starters.

    How dare you say I’m not a Libertarian or a Republican?

    I’m both, and in fact I’m one of the Top Libertarians and an important Republican political consultant.

    I’ve held many offices in the Libertarian Party and I’ve been friends with many Top Libertarians.

    As we all know, being a libertarian is defined by who you know and what positions you have held, and also by mainstream, non-libertarian news media (such as the ones that said Lyndon LaRouche is a Libertarian).

    Look, people, this is war. Don’t you get it?

    If a few million or billion people have to die as collateral damage, what’s the big deal? It’s a minor bump on the road to victory. You can’t make an omlette without breaking a few eggs.

    Understanding this is what makes me a mainstream libertarian.

  38. Eric Cartman Donfascist Says:

    Doctor Paul, are you a tinfoil hatter? Does the Loch Ness Monster vist you in a UFO?

    Any suggestion that the official version of 9/11 is absolutely 100% correct is totally crazy.

    It’s also dangerous, even though there is mot even a shred of truth to it. Just to be sure, we should make it illegal to question the truth of what happened on 9/11. It’s an insult to the families of the dead. Especially the ones asking the questions themselves.

    Until we can make it illegal to spread lies and questions about what happened on 9/11 we can at least ridicule all the crazy people who question what our government says happened.

    If you are not siding with the Government in a time of War that means you are siding with the enemy.

    Which means you are a traitor.

    And we all know the penalty for treason.

    Questioning our government is treason, and totally nuts. Understanding that is what makes me a real American and a mainstream libertarian.

  39. bot Says:

    Could Mitt Romney be more “Christian” than Evangelicals? Protestants and Catholics subscribe to the Nicene creed, which was initiated by the Emperor Constantine in the Fourth Century to rid Scriptures of the Apocrypha, which made reference to the oral traditions of Jewish and early Christian temple worship.

    First Century Christian churches, in fact, continued the Jewish temple worship traditions:
    1) Baptism of youth (not infants) by immersion by the father of the family
    2) Lay clergy
    3) Anointing with holy oil after baptism
    4) Then clothing in white clothing

    Just check with the Israeli Museum to verify. And read Exodus Ch 29 for Aaron and his sons” ordinances. Jewish Temple practices were continued by Christians prior to Constantine”s corruption (see St. Cyril of Jerusalem (315-386) Lecture XXI). Early Christians were persecuted for keeping their practices sacred, and not allowing non-Christians to witness them

    A literal reading of the New Testament points to God and Jesus Christ being separate beings, united in purpose. To whom was Jesus praying in Gethsemane, and to whom was he speaking on the Mount of Transfiguration?

    The Nicene Creed”s definition of the Trinity was influenced by scribes translating the Greek manuscripts into Latin. The scribes embellished on a passage explaining the Trinity, which is the Catholic and Protestant belief that God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The oldest versions of the epistle of 1 John, read: “There are three that bear witness: the Spirit, the water and the blood and these three are one.”
    Scribes later added “the Father, the Word and the Spirit,” and it remained in the epistle when it was translated into English for the King James Version, according to Dr. Bart Ehrman, Chairman of the Religion Department at UNC- Chapel Hill.

    Members of the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) have concern for their ancestors” spiritual welfare, so they practice proxy baptism. (1 Corinthians 15:29 & Malachi 4:5-6).

    Only members of the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) continue these practices of First Century Christians. But Mormons don”t term Catholics and Protestants “non-Christian”. The dictionary definition of a Christian is “of, pertaining to, believing in, or belonging to a religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ”:. All of the above denominations are followers of Christ, and consider him the Messiah foretold in the Old Testament.

    It”s important to understand the difference between Reformation and Restoration when we consider who might be the more authentic Christian. If Mitt Romney is a member of a denomination which embraces early Christian theology, he is likely more “Christian” than his detractors.

    • * *
      Furthermore, a UCLA study found that observant members of the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) in their 50s and 60s had one-twentieth the divorce rate, abuse rate, or substance abuse of a demographically similar group in Southern California.

    And the National Study of Youth and Religion done by UNC-Chapel Hill in 2005 found that Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) youth (ages 13 to 17) were more likely to exhibit these Christian characteristics than Evangelicals (the next most observant group):

    LDS Evangelical
    Attend Religious Services weekly 71% 55%
    Importance of Religious Faith in shaping daily life –
    extremely important 52 28
    Believes in life after death 76 62
    Believes in psychics or fortune-tellers 0 5
    Has taught religious education classes 42 28
    Has fasted or denied something as spiritual discipline 68 22
    Sabbath Observance 67 40
    Shared religious faith with someone not of their faith 72 56
    Family talks about God, scriptures, prayer daily 50 19
    Supportiveness of church for parent in trying to raise teen
    (very supportive) 65 26
    Church congregation has done an excellent job in helping
    Teens better understand their own sexuality and sexual morality 84 35

  40. Eric Cartman Donfascist Says:

    The major problem with Mitt Romney is that he is not Rudy Giuliani.

    Anyone who gets in the way of Rudy Giuliani becoming the next president should just be treated as an unlawful enemy combatant.

    And I say this as a mainstream libertarian.

  41. RWR Says:

    Cody wrote:
    “The Minnesota Party will not be mourning the loss of its former ineffective candidate.”

    If nonsense like this continues to pass muster around here, perhaps it is a waste of my time to get my third party news from this site. Fully acknowledging that Austin runs the show and that perhaps Cody’s idea of “news” fits his vision for this site, I will just offer that turning what is generally a news site into a vengeful soapbox is quite offputting.

    The news about the CPMN is most definitely newsworthy. Declaring on a political party’s behalf what the departure of one of their most active members means to them is beyond opinion – it is wild, irresponsible conjecture.

  42. Cody Quirk Says:

    I don’t care very much at all whether you think some guy’s email is “haughty”, or that his speech was a “tirade”, or that some website is “delusive”.

    The same could be said about Politics1.com -Ron reports on politics accurately, but with a slant. But he can report the news any way he wants to.

    But I did use restraint in my article and I am correct on what I said from a nonpartisan viewpoint, I’ll explain….

  43. Cody Quirk Says:

    Here is Ben’s email, word for word:

    “Dear fellow American:
    I am writing you today to make you aware of the current status of the Constitution Party, and in particular, its affiliate here in Minnesota. I have been an active member of the Constitution Party of Minnesota since February 2003. In that time, I have served as Secretary/Treasurer of the
    1st District Constitution Party, Chairman of Minnesotans for Peroutka, and most recently as their US Senate candidate.
    Since 2003, the Nevada affiliate of the Constitution Party, the
    Independent American Party of Nevada (IAPNV), has elected and
    retained a chairman that is a vocal proponent of aborticide, referring to children conceived of rape and incest as “trespassers and intruders deserving of extermination. ” Chris Hansen is a zealous member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a pseudo-Christian cult that believes in continuing revelation from its President/Prophet that supersedes all previous revelation including the Holy Bible and their own Book of Mormon. Members of this corporation are more colloquially referred to as Mormons.
    The national Constitution Party platform states an opposition to infanticide for any reason including rape and incest. This human life plank had been bedrock to the party. So important was this plank, that in 1998 the national committee unanimously passed a resolution denying support to any candidate that would promote a view divergent from the Sanctity of Life plank.
    It would stand to reason that there should be discipline for any affiliate of the Constitution Party that would elect pro-abortion officers.
    Ever since Mr. Hansen’s public promotion of abortion as the IAPNV’s
    Chairman, principled pro-lifers have sought resolution to the issue. Beginning with pleadings with Mr. Hansen to resign, to putting in a disciplinary process for wayward affiliates, and finally a resolution to disaffiliate the IAPNV at the 22 April 2006 national committee meeting in Tampa FL, all of these proposals and requests were rebuffed by the national committee.
    Current estimates state that over 1/3 of Constitution Party national committee members are Mormons, and most of the employees of the national Constitution Party are Mormons. This past election season, Mormon-controlled Constitution Party affiliates in Colorado, Idaho, and Nevada ran pro-abortion candidates.
    Mr. Hansen and his supporters contend that they cannot be held to
    the life plank or any other plank of the Constitution Party platform if their
    Prophet decrees opposition. By the logic of Hansen, Inc., a Satanist should be welcome in the Constitution Party and should be exempt from the party platform rather than be in opposition to her religious beliefs.
    Since at least 1996, Constitution Party literature has been critical of the Republican Party and its candidates that are in direct opposition to the Republican Party platform. The Constitution Party has in principle now
    jettisoned its much flaunted motto, “Principle over Politics!,” and
    made itself no better than the Republican Party.
    The Constitution Party has promoted itself as a patriotic pro-life Christian party since its founding in 1992. /SPAN>This is no longer the case. The Constitution Party is now more interested in peripheral issues such as immigration, taxation, and more importantly supplanting the Republican and Democratic Parties. By the standards of today’s Constitution Party, any person is welcome and can hold a leadership position as long as they hold agreement with at least one plank of the platform. To be consistent, the Constitution Party should welcome Greens since they oppose the Federal Reserve. The only crime in the Constitution Party is to be a sincere Christian that stands firm on the Word of God, the Holy Bible. Since April 2006, nine affiliates of the Constitution Party have left to become independent political parties, including Michael Peroutka’s Maryland, Rick Jore’s Montana, and Mark Moore’s Arkansas. Other affiliates are expected to leave in the next year, among them: Wisconsin, Georgia, Mississippi, and Texas. Many other individuals have left the Constitution Party when their own state affiliates chose not to disaffiliate, including Reed Heustis of California, and Cal Zastrow of Michigan.
    Today, I was privileged to present a disaffiliation resolution for the Constitution Party of Minnesota. Unfortunately, this resolution was not adopted. I am writing to let you know that I have resigned my leadership positions in the Constitution Party. Being a leader in any organization implies a duty to promote that organization. I cannot continue to promote the Constitution Party (including doing parades) and remain true to my Christian faith. I now refer to myself as an independent, and not a Constitutionalist. I have not dropped out of politics. I strongly encourage every one to work hard for the candidate that they most agree with at any level whether that man is running for township board or President of these united States of America without regard to party affiliation. Most important, I encourage you to daily immerse yourself in God’s complete Word, the Holy Bible. In addition, regularly visit Michael Peroutka’s website, The American View, http://www.TheAmeri canView.com.

  44. Cody Quirk Says:

    And 0.25% of the vote? Even from a unbiased standpoint, that is ineffective. Even if the Senate race in that state was very close, .25% would maybe put a little dent in the race.

    I’m not bashing the Minnesota CP, and I think ken Lucier did a good job in the race for the 7th Congressional District. 1.28% of the vote is pretty good.

    But man! If I got .25% myself, even if I ran for a local office, I’d walk into the bedroom after the election results, open up 3 bottles of Wild Turkey and play Jim Morrison’s ‘The End’.

    I’m sure Ben probably didn’t take it that hard. But sorry, .25% is ineffective.

  45. Cody Quirk Says:

    Dangit! my post with Ben’s email got cut off!

  46. Cody Quirk Says:

    here was the rest=

    “...canView.com.
    George Washington implored the American public in his 1796 Farewell Address to avoid loyalty to party over principle. I see the wisdom in Mr. Washington’s avice. The Constitution Party no longer promotes our nation’s Biblical foundation, and rather desires to have its hands on the levers of power at all costs. How does the Constitution Party expect voters to trust them to restore a nearly 220 year old document when they will not even follow their own stated principles?

    Sincerely,

    Benjamin Powers”

    http://www.chick. com/reading/ tracts/0061/ 0061_01.asp

    ========

    Now he simply could’ve said that the Cp is not pro-life, neither is the Nevada IAP (even though they support the CP Plank on Life), and that his principles will guide him elsewhere.
    But he made it into a vain tirade against Mormons, Christ Hansen, Nevada, the CP, and as a ‘last resort’ he attached the anti-LDS link, probably thinking anyone reading his email will look at it and turn against the LDS faith or for LDS members reading it to leave the Church.

    ‘Haughty’, was actually a nice word to describe it, hateful & mean-spirited is a more appropriate description. Unbiasedly this email is more a ranting tirade then a resgination letter. Especially since his claims are false or half truths.

  47. Cody Quirk Says:

    “That being said, it would be nice if you provided a point-by-point refutation of the claims in the cartoon that you are so quick to call obtuse.”

    Alright then, not to convert people here, but to make the distinctions…

  48. Cody Quirk Says:

    Shoot!

    I’ve made responses to the cartoon, but I cannot post it because of the links I have were caught by the spam filter.

    Hold on…

  49. Cody Quirk Says:

    “The Bible as the Word of God”

    = http://www.angelfire.com/ga/kevgram/Bible.html

    http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/response/qa/bible_inerrant_griffith.htm

    http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom/bom/bible.htm

    http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/response/qa/bible_sufficiency.htm

    “God was once a man”

    = http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/godhead/farms_man.htm

    http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/Corporeality_of_God

    http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/GodHaveBody.pdf

    And you have passages in the Bible supporting otherwise.

    “God is a spirit”

    = http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/God_is_a_Spirit

    http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1987.htm/ensign%20july%201987.htm/is%20the%20lds%20view%20of%20god%20consistent%20with%20the%20bible.htm?fn=document-frame.htm&f=templates&2.0

    “God is a Polygamist”

    = http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/emmain.asp?number=133

    (a few LDS theorize that God may be a polygamist, but it is not official LDS Doctrine, nor was it taught by the Church)

    A few links on the spiritual matter of Plural Marriage-

    http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/Brigham_Young_in_JD_11%2C_page_269

    http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/Polygamy_a_requirement_for_exaltation

    “God on a ‘planet next to Kolob with his wives and having children’”

    = The source citied (Peal of Great Price) Abraham 3:9, 16. However the verses don’t even talk about his ‘wives or having children’. Hmmmm?

    http://scriptures.lds.org/en/abr/3

    Also you have John 14:2, and in the Book of Mormon- Enos 1:27, Ether 12:32, 34, 37. What do you think ‘mansions’ mean in these verses?

    “Satan and Jesus are ‘spirit brothers’”

    = http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/Jesus_Christ_is_the_brother_of_Satan

    http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Brochures/Is_Lucifer_the_Brother_of_Jesus.pdf

    “Council of Gods”

    = http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/emmain.asp?number=93

    http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/1999_Joshua_the_High_Priest.html

    (View on premortal life and Satan being cast out of Heaven)-

    http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/emmain.asp?number=149

    http://www.mormonfortress.com/premort1.html

    http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/emmain.asp?number=144

    “Jesus is the Savior only because his plan was accepted?”

    = Nope.

    1 Peter 1:20, (PGP) Moses 4:2

    Jesus was the Firstborn of God and already foreordained to be the Messiah of all Mankind.

    “What happened to the other two-thirds of the spirits?”

    = http://www.fairwiki.org/images/d/d6/PreExistenceBibleBarney.pdf

    http://www.fairlds.org/Mormonism_201/m20104.html

    http://www.angelfire.com/ga/kevgram/Children.html

    “...Faithful to Jesus are born as babies with white skin…”

    = http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/Blacks_and_the_priesthood:Origin_of_the_priesthood_ban%3F

    http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/Blacks_and_the_priesthood:Understanding_pre-1978_statements

    http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/Blacks_and_the_priesthood:Repudiated_ideas

    “And the spirit children who didn’t fight ‘valiantly’... born with black skin.”

    = http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php?title=Racist_statements_by_Church_leaders

    http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/emmain.asp?number=157

    http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/2000.htm/ensign%20september%202000.htm/no%20more%20strangers.htm?fn=document-frame.htm&f=templates&2.0

    “Isn’t it true… You’ll become Gods with a planet of your own?”

    = http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/Deification_of_man

    http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/emmain.asp?number=62

    http://ourworld-top.cs.com/mikegriffith1/id71.htm

    Ponder Psalms 82:6 and again, John 14:2.

    “The Journal of Discourses shows that Mormons taught that Jesus had many wives…”

    = http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/Was_Jesus_Christ_married%3F
    ——————-

    -I’m going to stop and post here, I’m still addressing this quote and I’ll continue with it on the next post.

  50. Cody Quirk Says:

    Ok, now continuing on commenting on the last quote.
    ———-

    = http://www.lightplanet.com/response/answers/jesus-married.htm

    It’s kinda funny Janice is bringing up Journal of Discourses as her source for her false claims…

    http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/Journal_of_Discourses

    http://www.mormonfortress.com/journal1.html

    “I understand Joseph Smith’s family was deeply involved with the occult.”

    = http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/Joseph_Smith_and_the_occult

    http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/Joseph_Smith%27s_1826_glasslooking_trial

    http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/Joseph_Smith_and_Jupiter_talisman

    http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/Joseph_Smith_and_seer_stones

    http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1991.htm/ensign%20november%201991%20.htm/the%20family%20of%20the%20prophet%20joseph%20smith.htm?fn=document-frame.htm&f=templates&2.0

    “Joseph Smith and his Brother were both Masons. In fact Joseph Smith jumped from a 1st Degree to a sublime Degree Mason in one day. That explains the Masonic symbols on the walls of the Mormon temples.”

    = http://en.fairmormon.org/index.php/Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:The_%22Occult%22 (scoll down to the claim)

    http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/Symbols_on_the_Nauvoo_Temple

    “And also on the undergarments worn by Mormons who have gone through the Temple. ...Where they learn their secret handshakes, their blood oaths, and their secret names which they need to get into Heaven.”

    = http://www.lightplanet.com/response/answers/garment.htm

    http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/emmain.asp?number=88

    http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/emmain.asp?number=71

    http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/Temple_endowment_and_Freemasonry

    http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/Oath_of_vengeance

    http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/Penalties_in_the_endowment

    http://www.lightplanet.com/response/answers/temple.htm

    “... It’s nothing but a modern day form Baal Worship. It’s a mixture of Babylonian and Jewish religions, Masonry and Catholic tradition. They claim Apostolic Authority, just like the Vatican.”

    = Complete bogus.

    http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1984.htm/ensign%20january%201984.htm/we%20are%20christians%20because%20.htm?fn=document-frame.htm&f=templates&2.0

    http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/Latter-day_Saints_aren%27t_Christians

    http://www.fairlds.org/Anti-Mormons/Can_Mormons_Be_Considered_Christians.html

    http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1985.htm/ensign%20january%201985%20.htm/i%20have%20a%20question.htm?fn=document-frame.htm&f=templates&2.0

    http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_Christian.shtml

    http://www.fairlds.org/Mormonism_201/m20106.html

    http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/1999_Corruption_of_Scripture_in_the_Second_Century.html

    http://www.byui.edu/Presentations/Transcripts/Devotionals/2004_06_15_Reynolds.htm

    http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/Priesthood_restoration

    http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1996.htm/ensign%20december%201996.htm/the%20restoration%20of%20the%20aaronic%20and%20melchizedek%20priesthoods.htm?fn=document-frame.htm&f=templates&2.0

    http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/emmain.asp?number=49

    http://www.fairlds.org/Misc/Mormon_Missionaries_the_Vatican_and_Respect.html

    “...He said that anyone teaches doctrine contrary to The Book of Mormon, you mark him as a imposter.”

    = Completely taken out of context- here’s the FULL quote:

    “If any man writes to you, or preaches to you, doctrines contrary to the Bible, the Book of Mormon, OR the book of Doctrine and Covenants, set him down as an imposter [impostor].”
    http://www.centerplace.org/history/ts/v5n07.htm

    Yet some more article links-

    http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Brochures/What_is_Mormon_Doctrine.pdf

    http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1996.htm/ensign%20october%201996.htm/growing%20with%20a%20living%20church.htm?fn=document-frame.htm&f=templates&2.0

    “But the Book of Mormon says there is only one God and that he is unchanging”

    = http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1985.htm/ensign%20august%201985%20.htm/i%20have%20a%20question.htm?fn=document-frame.htm&f=templates&2.0

    http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/godhead/millett_nature.htm

    “You poor Mormons have been betrayed by your own false prophets!”

    = Nope.

    http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/Joseph_Smith_and_prophetic_test_in_Deuteronomy_18

    http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/Prophets_don%27t_prophesy

    http://www.fairlds.org/Misc/Must_All_Apostles_Literally_See_Christ.html

    “...the real Jesus of the Bible…”

    = http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/Worship_different_Jesus

    http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/Bible_basics

    http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/response/qa/different_jesus.htm

    http://www.fairlds.org/Mormonism_201/m20102.html

    http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1974.htm/ensign%20september%201974.htm/jesus%20what%20manner%20of%20man%20is%20he.htm?fn=document-frame.htm&f=templates&2.0

  51. Cody Quirk Says:

    Oops! I’m not done yet…

  52. Cody Quirk Says:

    So now we conclude.

    The story is both silly and insulting. LDS Missionaries do not teach the Gospel like they do in the cartoon. They especially don’t cite quotes and base LDS doctrine on speeches or personal writings of early Church members instead of the simple LDS Scriptures. Believe me, I’m a convert and I’ve assisted Missionaries in teaching the Gospel before.

    http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/General_authorities’_statements_as_scripture

    http://www.fairwiki.org/index.php/Journal_of_Discourses

    A lot of the sources for the ‘far-out views’ of LDS Doctrine come from a publication by Orson Pratt called ‘The Seer’. Early LDS Apologist B.H. Roberts had this to say about it:

    “The Seer, by formal action of the First Presidency and Twelve Apostles of the Church was repudiated, and Elder Orson Pratt himself sanctioned the repudiation. There was a long article published in the Deseret News on the 23rd of August, 1865, over the signatures of the First Presidency and Twelve setting forth that this work—the Seer—together with some other writings of Elder Pratt, were inaccurate. In the course of that document, after praising, as well they might, the great bulk of the work of this noted apostle, they say: “But the Seer, the Great First Cause, the article in the Millennial Star, of Oct. 15, and Nov. 1, 1850 contains doctrine which we cannot sanction and which we have felt to disown, so that the Saints who now live, and who may live hereafter, may not be misled by our silence, or be left to misinterpret it. Where these objectionable works or harts of works are bound in volumes, or otherwise, they should be cut out and destroyed.”

    Most of the other sources for Janices’ arguments come from distorted quotes or from fundamentalist interpretation of scripture, and even misinterpretation of The Book of Mormon. And when explored in full context, is discredited.

    Another thing about this cartoon, it was published and put out by a affiliate with the group called ‘Saints Alive in Jesus’, it’s a group of ex-Mormons that was started and led by Edward Decker, who joined the Church when he was 20 and later was excommunicated for adultery and spousal abuse.

    http://www.angelfire.com/ga/kevgram/Edswife.html

    Ed is probably on the same level as Scott Whiteman when it comes to viewing the LDS faith, or quite more militant. Edward has published (as some here may know the book well)- The God Makers, and other relating anti-Mormon work. And some of it is so inaccurate, slanderous, and obtuse that many anti-Mormon authors have been critical of him! Including Sandra and Jerald Tanner.

    Here’s a good expose’ on Ed, his organization, and his associates-

    http://www.angelfire.com/ut2/eddecker/exposed.txt

  53. Cody Quirk Says:

    Whew!

    So Matt, are you satisated by my rebuttal?
    I’ve said plenty for now.

    Back to politics…

  54. Cody Quirk Says:

    Sorry if I brought up all these theological and scriptural points. But from my view, this take on my faith is wrong and, of course, offensive. Much of the detractors of the Party delve into Mormonism constantly in their writtings and speeches. And it is these views that fuel their rhetoric on what they think is wrong with the Constitution Party.

    I really don’t like getting into theological discussions since I consider them boring and a waste of time. Political debates are way better and less divisive…. Sometimes.
    But if Mormonism keeps coming up here, I won’t stay quiet for long and I’ll just heat up myself a snack and grab a soda downstairs since I’ll be spending the next 5 hours on TPW.

    I’ll say it one more time. Ben’s resignation was nothing short of a tirade, his attitude was haughty and the link to the cartoon he listed is delusive and anti-Mormon.
    And I say this as a TPW writer, not a CP member or a Latter Day Saint.

  55. Cody Quirk Says:

    I will just offer that turning what is generally a news site into a vengeful soapbox is quite offputting.

    =I can say the same about The American View website and their forums.

  56. Eric Cartman Donfascist Says:

    Christian denominations should put aside their differences and concentrate on rounding up and killing as many Muslims as possible.

    I’m sure the Jihadists love nothing more than to see us fighting each other so they can establish Sharia law in America and make our women wear ugly burkas.

    Maybe, at a time like this, we can set aside our differences (until we win the war on terror) and merge all denominations by law into a single American Christian Church which answers to the Commander in Chief as our spiritual leader and God’s emissary on earth?

  57. matt Says:

    Cody,
    What I want to say is the following:

    A) I read a half-dozen or so of the links you provided. I am pleased that you backed your criticism of the cartoon up. It would have been better if you had adressed the concerns in your own words, but certainly time is a consideration.

    B) I am not, however (even after reading links that were especially germane to the subject), convinced that LDS belief falls within the bounded set of beliefs that we call Christian. Christianity is Trinitarianism and Biblicism, and if and when it veers away from these and other hallmarks, to that degree it is heretical. I daresay LDS theology veers away pretty radically.

    C) I think it’s disgusting that people want to root LDS people out of the CP. Matter of fact, I think it’s bigotry, and I don’t mind one bit if you criticize it. If I were in the CP, I’d be right there with you on that issue.

    D) What would be nice is if you would differentiate between News and Opinion. Actually, it’s crucial. I can’t criticize those I disagree with for being unfair and then overlook others who do the same just because I agree with them, now can I?

  58. Trent Hill Says:

    Cody,
    You put together the rebuttal well. Bravo. Im personally not LDS, hell im not even a baptist or methodist or catholic. Im actually sort of a mix of Methodist, Catholic, and TrentHillian,lol. I have an odd sort of mixture of views, including a liberal interpretation of the Bible. While I don’t agree with your theological preferences, nor would I expect you to believe in mine. This is why we have so many denominations. Each person needs something different out of christianity. Some want structure. Some do not. Some want hope, some would prefer Brimstone. Some inspire by happiness. Others by fear. All ways have been proven effective, all ways have been called heretical by the other side.
    Nonetheless, I wholeheartedly agree that Ben Powers is placed firmly in the “Bigot” square. Point being, I agree with Gary Odom. This is no longer a topic worth discussing. While it is important to note that Ben Powers has left and Minnesota did NOT disafilliate, let’s leave it at that in the future. We won, and are suffering VERY minimal losses (and large gains) because of it. Let the statistics speak for us.

  59. Cody Quirk Says:

    Well I’m not here to convert anybody to my faith, just to show what we REALLY believe and correct some distorted history, urban legends and myths of my Church. But even if you still don’t think Latter-Day Saints are the real deal after what I said, then that’s alright. On religions tolerance, I’m Libertarian all the way.

  60. Cody Quirk Says:

    I spent more then 6 hours on the rebuttal. Time really was the consideration.

  61. matt Says:

    It is good work. Very detailed. As are your articles; you’re doing a good thing!

  62. Cody Quirk Says:

    Thanks Matt:)

  63. catholicresistence Says:

    His site says it all-so mucch for the denial that it was about Mormons and Catholics-2 groups-especially us-that Chick hates intensly.

    Surprised he did not rant-as did Lefamine about us too-probably getting out that white sheet and hood now.

  64. Trent Hill Says:

    Jack Chick is vehemently anti-Mormon and Catholic. He is also a hardcore Fundamentalist who opposes Rock music and anything other than a STRICT fundamental view of the Bible.

  65. matt Says:

    Jack Chick certainly is a loon, but, as my mother used to say; “even a broken clock is right twice a day”.

  66. Trent Hill Says:

    True.
    And while im not a mormon,or supportive of their theology…Chick is never right.

    Chick may in fact make factual points sometimes…but he portrays them in a hateful, anti-christian method.

  67. Cody Quirk Says:

    And that’s why he’ll never convince me that his views are right.

  68. matt Says:

    Chick’s rarely right, and always obnoxious.

  69. Cody Quirk Says:

    Ehhh, I decided to leave the matter of the Minnesota CP to this one article. This probably covers the whole thing here.

    And also I was informed that the meeting was complex and the vote was somewhat close.

  70. Trent Hill Says:

    Cody,

    That is certainly bad news. In some GOOD news, the LACP is making alot of headway.

  71. SovereignMN Says:

    Cody, which vote are you referring to as close?

  72. Trent Hill Says:

    I believe he is referring to the disafilliation vote.

  73. SovereignMN Says:

    I don’t think the vote was that close. I would GUESS that about 1/3 of those present wanted to disaffiliate.

    When an amendment to the resolution was proposed to strip out all disaffiliation language, about 60-65% of the attendees voted in favor of it.

    I actually voted AGAINST that resolution despite not favoring disaffiliation because I wanted there to be a straight up/down vote so we knew precisely how many people favored disaffiliation.

  74. Cody Quirk Says:

    Alright, I’ll take your word for it SovereignMN,

    I just heard from a source that it was close I guess.

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