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Unlike the Union which also had slave states and which was a base of operations for slave trading ships. Discrimination and brutal treatment of blacks was actually quite common in the Union states, as was brutal treatment of American Indians.

Why don’t you get your facts straight instead of spewing forth propaganda?

We disagree on the “being jailed and deported” thing. But only because of how Lincoln talked about the war. Had he jailed everyone who refused to swear allegiance to the Union…he would’ve had to dedicate one state (a large one) as a penal colony. And even then, he’d be hard-pressed to fit everyone. Because of the way the war was handled by the North…he couldnt, and he shouldn’t have as he had no right to. However. We agree on principle, in an unnamed/random war…Congress should declare war (so the PEOPLE are the ones declaring,rather than the president. And the President can’t be blamed and public opinion turned against him),and the goal shouldn’t be occupation but destruction of the enemy.

RE: Reconstruction… The Old Guard did re-emerge shortly after Reconstruction ended. Slaves, who had rightfully been given property that was built by their labor, had it confiscated and returned to their old slavemasters, who were enemy combatants and refused to swear allegiance to the Constitution. I guess I don’t get your argument. We seem to be saying the same thing, and yet at the same time, the opposite thing.

My point is that if a war is to be fought, it should be fought entirely. I am not making excuses for illegalities or cruelties of the North during the war, but the goal should have been the complete anihilation of the enemy. Every time this has been America’s goal, we have won wars. Every time it has not, we have not. This was the goal of the North (“America” in this case), but it was not seen through to completion.

There were people and groups in the South still in open rebellion. Just look at the Battle of New Orleans. My belief is that these people should have been treated no differently than insurgents in Iraq or members of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Any former Confederate who refused to swear allagience to the Constitution should have been deported, jailed, or executed for treason. Anyone guilty of infringing upon the constitutional rights of others should have been sentenced to prison. There should have been no tolerance for a return to the Old Way. And this was one vote in the Senate away from being the way it would have been, if Johnson would have been convicted and Wade had become president.

As for the failure of Reconstruction, it could have been carried out better. We both agree on that. You think it should have been a more systematic destruction of the Old Gaurd. I think the Old Gaurd would have faded off without the Abuse of the Northerners…there would have been nothing to fuel that Old Guard’s hatred.

Hey, I got a good book for you, Trent. I just got it from my conservative father-in-law and read it in one sitting two nights ago. It is called White Guilt, by Shelby Steele (a supposed “black conservative,” but I would not tag him as such). Ever heard of it?

However, what has directly affected our environment? At least part of it is the bad methods of Reconstruction,and the War Crimes of Sherman (who was NOT a president! lol).
Particularly the war crimes of Sherman, protectionism of the North, destruction of the slave system, and death of a generation, left our area of the country about 5 decades behind everyone else.
After that you count the bad policies of carpet baggars and racist democrats, and the causes of the Southern lagging becomes apparent.

Well, I am only a loly National member.

As far as teh South being ignorant, etc, etc. is this the same South that gave us R.E. Lee? Jefferson? Washington? Madison?

For such backward folks, there was certainly a big enough fuss to force them at gun point to stay in a union they no longer wished to have. Also, blacks were especially targeted for theft, assualt and rape by Yankee troops.

The right to “peacably assemble” in White Leagues?

It was the WAY Reconstruction was handled. Those white people, the citizens, had no real represenation, and widescale voter fraud (as you so noted) took place. They may have been protecting the black citizens rights, meanwhile they were destroying the white southerner’s rights. (and no,im not talking rights toi property. Im talking right to peaceably assemble. Right to representation. Right to bear arms. Stuff like that).

Also, why would the Post-Civil War republicans take on such a courageous mission when during the Civil War, they had oppressed their own citizens so heavily,indeed blurring the lines between democracy and fascism by taking away Habeas Corpus, deporting political opposition, and shutting down dissenting newpapers?