It’s been proven that many liberal groups receive funding from him, and even some left libertarian groups like Rob Kampia’s MPP. So why not left-libertarian activists like you and the escaped convict Paul Frankel?

Anti-Patriot Act means Pro-Islamo-Fascism, and weak on Radical Islam which wants to destroy my personal liberties.

So, Giuliani not speaking out to repeal the Patriot Act is a good thing!

If you’d like to discuss or debate some issues feel free to call me on my cell phone at 832-896-9505.

I’m on Cricket, so I have unlimited minutes. No problem. (When I’m here at home in Houston.)

Or you can call into my radio show “Libertarian Politics Live” at 646-915-9887.

We’ve had Knapp on as a guest. We’d be honored to have you on, as well.

August 11th, 2007 at 8:16 am
Jay,

I have to disagree with you that Mr. Dondero is a “gutless lemming.”

Call him misguided if you like. Hell, call him stupid or even evil!

But gutless?

Walking into a room—real or virtual—full of libertarians, and trying to convince them that Rudy Giuliani and Joe Lieberman are libertarians is hardly timid. Matter of fact, to my mind it requires balls big enough that you’d have to trundle them around in a wheelbarrow.”

I’d say that it is fair to say that Dondero displays intellectual cowardice since there are numerous occassions where I’ve brought up facts that he is unwilling to debate, such as facts about Giuliani that I brought up on this thread that PROVE that Giuliani is far from being a libertarian.

I haven’t seen any evidence that Giuliani would do anything to increase or preserve freedom. All of the evidence that I’ve seen from Giuliani points to the very opposite.

I think making the statements and dodging the questions and facts as he does takes little guts when done on the internet. There’s no face-to-face factor. Imagine a televised press conference where he is presented with the same questions and scandalous facts about Giuliani. His ignoring such unpleasants issues and then trying to convince the public he has libertarian appeal would be laughed at. He’s in effect repeatedly saying “no comment” which is gutless. But I suppose that’s all he can say as the truth behind Rudy isn’t pretty.

While some here may have a lot of venom for Eric, I don’t. I feel sorry for him to a small degree.

But in the meantime I’m sure he’ll keep quoting one unqualified individual after another about the supposed libertarian ways of Rudy. That’s all he can do. Actions speak louder than words and Rudy’s actions are corrupt and un-American and there is no reason to believe civil liberties will not continue to erode if Giuliani were the President. Has Giuliani EVER spoken out against the Patriot Act, MCA, Real ID, etc.? And the fact he’s a CFR member also speaks volumes.

Expect this next: “Take a look at this guys, the former editor of the Daily Worker says Rudy…..........”

It’s not that Lieberman and Giuliani are “libertarian” per se. I’d put Giuliani right on the edge, teeter-tottering between the Centrist and Libertarian Quadrants of the WSPQ right there with Arnold, David Dreier, Gov. Charlie Crist and other such “Centrist Libertarian” Republicans.

No, what people like me are arguing, is that these guys are Centrists (or Conservatives) worthy of libertarian support.

We are never going to get the full loaf. Not in our lifetimes, Tom.

I’d be more than happy to live in a 60/60 society. 70/70 would be a lot better. (I’d imagine the entire United States like a mixture of Alaska and Las Vegas at 70/70, with no Seat Belt Laws of NH thrown in.)

Right now we’re at 55/50, my estimate.

With Giuliani we have a chance of moving up to 60/60. I’m all for that. And coincidentally, 60/60 is exactly where he is at on the ontheissue.org site.

With Hillary we will drop down to near 40/40 levels. And if she is reelected by some chance in 2012, we could go as low as 30/30, not quite Hitlerian, but certainly Mussolini/Gorbachevian Soviet Union style authoritarianism.

You choose.

I have to disagree with you that Mr. Dondero is a “gutless lemming.”

Call him misguided if you like. Hell, call him stupid or even evil!

But gutless?

Walking into a room—real or virtual—full of libertarians, and trying to convince them that Rudy Giuliani and Joe Lieberman are libertarians is hardly timid. Matter of fact, to my mind it requires balls big enough that you’d have to trundle them around in a wheelbarrow.

If you go to page 4 to the entry “LP: Don’t Vote in the GOP Primary” you’ll see the exchange between Dondero and myself regarding Ron Paul and the GOP debates. He claims RP isn’t showing party loyalty and therefore the GOP is in the right if they were to exclude him. By not showing party loyalty he’s referring to RP wanting to remove our military from Iraq.

I then posed this question to him: Chuck Hagel also isn’t showing “party loyalty” if he were to get in the race do you think he should be excluded as well?

I gave him three opportunities to answer. He didn’t. You can go back and check out the exchange for yourself.

Jay, what exactly are you talking about?

I wonder the same thing.

Yep, Tom, I think that’s exactly what Andy was saying.

And thanks to Eric for admitting that has been his goal for decades.

I wonder whether his whole entire career as a LP/movement infiltrator has been a paid up psyops operation from the start, or if he is really that perfectly brainwashed?

August 9th, 2007 at 7:51 pm
Thanks Tom, for backing me up. That was the strongest endorsement of my views that I’ve ever seen coming from you.

If what you say is correct, than we’ve essentially won. We libertarians have prevailed. Others, particularly Republicans like Giuliani are ‘co-opting libertarianism.’

Alas, that has been the goal for decades.

Makes me a very, very happy camper indeed.”

They may be co-opting the WORD libertarian but they are clearly NOT co-opting libertarian philosophy or libertarian polices.

The word libertarian is essentially meaningless unless it is backed up by libertarian philosophy and policies.

If you truly want libertarian reform, this is nothing to get excited over. Unless of course you’re real intention is to sell people on the idea of fascism with a “libertarian” label stuck on it so that a lot of people will swallow it more easily, like how the socialist hijacked the term liberal in the early half of the last century in order to get their agenda enacted.

By the way, I CHALLENGE you or anyone else to go through all of the facts that I’ve posted that indicate that Rudy Giuliani is not even remotely libertarian and refute these facts point by point.

If what you say is correct, than we’ve essentially won. We libertarians have prevailed. Others, particularly Republicans like Giuliani are “co-opting libertarianism.”

Alas, that has been the goal for decades.

Makes me a very, very happy camper indeed.