The Death of Small Government in the GOP
I haven’t been back in DC for a few months, but day one is already a lot of fun. While EJ Moosa was calling the GOP DOA, the Libertarian Party was acting on it.
Since it’s now likely that John McCain will be the eventual Republican presidential nominee, Shane Cory and I thought it might be appropriate to send the GOP a funeral wreath. LP National Media Coordinator Andrew Davis and I hailed a cab and delivered the pictured wreath along with a condolence card from the Libertarian Party. Andrew delivered while I photographed. The card, addressed to RNC Chairman Mike Duncan, read in part:
Given that it has become readily apparent that Senator McCain will soon be the presidential nominee for the Republican Party, we, the staff of the Libertarian National Committee, send our condolences to you upon the death of small-government principles within the GOP.Libertarians encourage competition within both the free-market and politics. Unfortunately, with the rise of John McCain and the big-spending practices of the Bush administration, the two-party system has emerged as representing only one philosophy – big-government liberalism.
With your loss, the Libertarian Party will continue to move forwards to represent those American patriots who still believe in smaller government, lower taxes and more individual freedom.
Along with the office staff, I signed the card as the Libertarian Party of Alabama chairman. Because of the local angle, my inscription read: “From Governor Riley’s tax plan to the man who brought us McCain-Feingold, small-government sentimentalities are surely dead within the GOP.”
Moosa wrote:
There is no room for liberty-minded people in the GOP tent. The party is in disarray, scrambling to prepare for a contest between two of the biggest socialists to run against them in decades.That fear is what drove voters to pick other candidates over Ron Paul. They like Paul BUT….it’s too close. Too close to stand on principle. Too close to take the chance. Hillary or Obama is just around the corner.
With or without Ron Paul, we must take this movement, this fund- raising strength and move it to the Libertarian Party and now. We must not fade back into the woodwork. The Republican Party is dead and it simply not going to return.
Trying to sell the Ron Paul message to a Republican crowd is a little like selling Toyotas at a Ford Dealership. The Toyota may have great quality, but they came to Ford to buy a Ford.
Paul’s message broadcast from the Libertarian tent will stand tall. Others on the fringe of both parties will be attracted to the Libertarian movement. Only then, with a solid 15% of the electorate, will the message be taken seriously.
If Paul does not want to do this, I certainly understand. He has made the great effort to change the Republican Party from within. But he cannot cures what ails the Republican Party. It is rotten to the core. And they have treated Paul and his followers with disdain and ridicule.
First there was McCain-Feingold, then there was McCain-Kennedy. The only question remaining is which Democratic name will be love-linked to McCain’s in November. Will it be McCain-Obama or McCain-Clinton?
February 6th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
My vote will go to Dr. Paul whether he is on the ballot as a Republican or Independent, etc. The media is doing all it can to make supporters of Dr. Paul feel hopeless. It’s not going to work. My yard sign went out this morning, my bumper stickers will be on the cars tomorrow, my Ron Paul cards will be in my pocket and my button will be on my outfit every day. I’ll talk to as many people as will listen to get the message out.
I have NOT heard the fat lady sing.
)
February 6th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Don’t count Ron out just yet. He has a real shot in a brokered convention with the delegates he has been picking up.
He has roughly 42 (not the 14 claimed by the mainstream media).
People should realize Ron is the GOPs only hope to win the White House.
Obama will whipe the floor with McCain or Romney.
Ron Paul in a 1 on 1 debate with ANY other candidate would be greatly in favor of Ron. He would just destroy any of those puppets in a face to face debate over the issues.
If people just hear what Ron has to say to any doubter they wouldn’t deny he is the only real choice.
Ron needs all of us to demand from our local media to stop ignoring him. We the supporters with enough effort can really take our country back.
February 6th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Not a 3rd party campaign, a write-in campaign.
Let’s side-step all the “sore-loser” laws, all the ballot-access laws, etc.
This will also side-step any machine-count issues. The first comparisons anyone will make, (assuming Dr. Paul is properly registered in each state as a write-in candidate) is write-ins vs marked ballots. If there are enough write-in votes to potentially win, then they will all have to be examined.
That will allow us to claim (at first) every write-in for “mickey mouse” as a (potential) vote for Ron Paul. In the hours after an election, this may be crucial. If there are enough write-in votes, then perhaps McCain or Hillary will just concede the election without anyone actually having to count all the votes.
Best of all, No one can claim Dr. Paul lied. He never said anything about a write-in campaign (because no one asked), only 3rd party or independent.
Later.
February 6th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
“Shohadaku Says:
February 6th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Don’t count Ron out just yet. He has a real shot in a brokered convention with the delegates he has been picking up.
He has roughly 42 (not the 14 claimed by the mainstream media).
People should realize Ron is the GOPs only hope to win the White House.”
I thought that Ron only had 12 delegates so far. Where did you get the 42 delegates?
February 6th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Come on, this is about a funny as hell jab that the LP made at the Republican Party. Lighten up, fellow Ron Paul supporters—this isn’t about delegate votes or write-ins or anything like that.
February 6th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
The write in idea WILL NOT work. Write ins never win, have never won a presidential race.
And the funeral idea the Libertarians did is REALLY funny.
February 6th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
Wow. I think that’s a totally bozo idea (the wreath thing). The main problem is that it suggests (wrongly) that the Republican party was EVER - let alone directly before “McCain and Bush” – the party of small government. It also suggests – inappropriately – that libertarians are simply disappointed Republicans – or, if you will, more-republican-than-thou.
The LP needs Libertarians working in the national headquarters – not wannabe or failed Republicans who want to swim in the small LP pond and make silly faces at the folks who wouldn’t let them play in the big kids’ pond.
February 6th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
That is fucking funny! I’m considering rejoining the LP after this one.
February 6th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
Hogarth: Please lighten the fuck up. It’s grabbing and funny, not some serious libertarian treatise. The obvious intent, to anyone but you, is a humerous way to immediately address Super Tuesday results. This isn’t a What Would Rothbard Do moment.
February 6th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
Great idea. I’ll see about using it here locally. Wouldn’t it be great if hundreds of local LP affiliates would do the same?
Take Pictures
February 6th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Freedom Fighter,
So when has a 3rd party ever won an election? (Don’t say Lincoln, we all know that the Whig party had fallen apart before the Republicans won their election. The GOP was already the “other” party by 1859.)
Dr. Paul will have the same two chances as a write-in that he will have as a Libertarian (or Constitution, or Green, or Reform or independent.) – slim and none. Either way it will be a lot of hard work.
This way, at least, no negatives from the party affiliation, and no blow-back if Ron Paul does or says something embarrassing.
No laws relagating him to second-class citizenship. He can take his message of freedom and liberty straight to the people of the United States of America. If they don’t vote it, then they don’t deserve it.
February 6th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Steve, props on this idea. You honestly had me laughing out loud and made me jealous that I didn’t think of anything like that.
February 6th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Me Texan. Think wreath funny! Would do same here in Texas but too busy posting on blogs.
February 6th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
Please don’t elect Susan to the LNC. I beg you. She is starting to reach “Gene Chapman/Daniel Imperato” status.
February 6th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
“The write in idea WILL NOT work. Write ins never win, have never won a presidential race.”
Incorrect. John Quincy Adams, Andrew Jackson, Martin van Buren, William Henry Harrison, James K. Polk, Zachary Taylor, Franklin Pierce, James Buchanan, Abraham Lincoln, Ulysses S. Grant, Rutherford B. Hayes, James Garfield, Chester A. Arthur and Grover Cleveland (1st term) were all elected as write-in candidates.
Presidents before John Quincy Adams were chosen by electors selected by the state legislatures; 1824 was the first election in which a majority of states (16 of 22) instead used the popular vote to choose electors.
From then on, EVERY presidential candidate was a write-in candidate, until 1884 when states started adopting the “Australian” ballot, printed by the government and regulated as to content. By 1892, when Cleveland came back to win a second non-consecutive term against Benjamin Harrison, the “Australian” ballot prevailed. But from 1824-1884, you wrote your own ballot, or your political party gave you a pre-printed one which you were free to modify as you wished.
February 6th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Hey… it’s always a “What Would Rothbard Do moment”.
:-)
Thanks – I love that phrase. And I do take your point, but I see this as another in a long string of what I can only interpret as jilted-Republican behavior on the part of the LP staff.
Also, I know this is petty, but I can’t help wondering how much they blew on the wreath. It looked pretty spiffy. But closer inspection shows just a bunch of carnations and ferns, which are pretty cheap, so maybe it’s not too much damage. But everything’s more expensive in DC :-/
February 6th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
I wonder who is going to read the eulogy?
February 6th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
Susan, no, I deny it. (something again you wrote I agree with).
February 6th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
Susan,
Question for you:
It seems if the national staff targets Republicans, they are called Republican-lite. If the national staff targets Democrats, they are called Republican-lite. It seems that the only time some Libertarians are happy is if Libertarians are attacking other Libertarians. Even then, it makes the Libertarians being attacked upset, but it isn’t Republican-lite, at least.
Is fratricide somehow more moral than going after the Democrats and Republicans as opportunities are presented?
February 6th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
Tom Knapp is just saying write-ins do work because he supports one of the LP candidates.
Get real, Knapp. The point was that in 21st century presidential politics, the odds against any write in campaign working are astronomical, at best.
February 6th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Confession time.
I actually DID have a WWMD (what-would-murray-do) wristband for a while. I bought it in a fit of enthusiasm when I visited Auburn for a symposium with HH Hoppe. I went into a cool shop near the campus and picked out these awesome copper letters and a rather strange band to put them on.
I actually got two bands at that time. The other said “PETE”. Pete is my dog (the colliething). The WWMD one got left in a hotel room in Hickory, NC, when I was scoping out convention sites for the LPNC. I think they mailed it back to me. No idea where either one is now.
What can I say? I’m a sucker for old farts in bowties and dogs who can catch frisbees. But then again, what woman isn’t?
February 6th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Hiya, SG.
Let me tackle your question, which you thoughtfully pre-loaded with assumptions.
First: if you recall, I praised the letter to DP congressthings about FISA.
More fundamentally, though: My beef is not with ‘targeting Republicans’; it is with the nature of the targeting. In this particular instance, the message I saw was that the LP thinks the nomination of McCain was something on the order of a coffin-nail for the RP’s commitment to small government and individual liberty. But we all know that’s hogwash, and that the RP has never really been about either thing. HOWever – many Republicans do indeed have those beliefs, and it is our job to convince them that the RP never has and never will represent them, not that the RP needs to be ‘saved’ from the likes of John McCain. If we had wanted to go down that road at all, a better approach would have been to point out that McCain is the perfect EMBODIMENT of the Republican Party, not that he’s some disaster and that if only Republicans could reject him, the RP would be practically Libertarian. Because. It. Would. Not.
What I would like to see the professional staff and other representatives (officers and LNC) of the LP do is to point out the flaws in the ideas of the major parties, not play these personality games or rail against dorks like Huckabee. Combined with pointing out the flawed ideas of the major parties, we should be emphasizing the purity and consistency and righteousness of the ideas we hold. Along with this, we should attack particular programs and offer new ideas ourselves.
And I’m not even sure how to reply to your implication that I would rather see Libs attacking other Libs than battling Republicans and Democrats. Within the Party we do have fundamental differences that need to be aired and – if possible – resolved. But in our public face we should concentrate on talking about how wonderful libertarianism is, not what a disaster John McCain may or may not be for the Republican Party.
February 6th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
Knappster, you gave me a great idea. We need to push for paper WRITTEN ballots! That would solve a lot of problems all at one time, would it not?
The candidates would have to qualify, but then it’s up to the voter to write in the name of a qualified candidate. There are no chads or x marks the spot.
February 6th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
Yes, the Libertarian Party has a huge opening here now with McCain’s ascendance. I’m all over the GOP boards. The extent of disgust with McCain among Right-wingers is grossly under-estimated.
But the LP will blow it, if they nominate a George Phillies or Steve Kubby.
A decent credible Libertarian candidate will attract great support from disgruntled Republicans. But it’s gotta be someone credible like Wayne Root, Bob Barr, Gary Johnson, Ed Thompson or Bill Weld.
February 6th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Ron Paul’s campaign staff has “projected” that Dr. Paul has 42 Delegates. Real Clear Politic’s gives him 14, another political site gives him 16.
February 6th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Unfortunately, Dondero is partially correct. I’m a former right-wing Republican, so I know how these people think. The Libertarian Party will get a few Republican converts, but not many. This is because of two issues – social tolerance and drugs. Where I think Dondero is incorrect is his assumption that the Christian right would vote for Root, Barr, Thompson, etc. That’s not going to happen as long as the Constitution Party is alive.
I suspect that this was an effort to capture the Ron Paul energy. They sure captured me – I intend to join the party after the Maryland primary.
February 6th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
Come on guys…the republicans should be happy. Insane McCain is a “big tent” republican. Eventhough he stands for nothing that the Republican Party should stand for, he IS a registered republican….right? They should accept their fate and the whole party should move in his direction. Who cares what he stands for as long as they can win…right?
February 6th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
DDavid: “We need to push for paper WRITTEN ballots!”
We’ve been saying this here in NC for some time. Why the heck should the government choose the slate of ‘acceptable’ candidates? Why not just leave a blank sheet with the names of each office to be filled and blank line next to it?
February 6th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
If all ballots write-in, libertarians would bitch about how many government dollars it takes to count the vote. And voter fraud allegations would continue at the same rate.
February 6th, 2008 at 8:08 pm
My handwriting sucks. I’m a Texan!
February 6th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
SH: Let me tackle your question, which you thoughtfully pre-loaded with assumptions.
SG: I didn’t thoughtfully pre-load by intention.
First: if you recall, I praised the letter to DP congressthings about FISA.
I do recall, and was more than a bit surprised.
the message I saw was that the LP thinks the nomination of McCain was something on the order of a coffin-nail for the RP’s commitment to small government and individual liberty.
No, but it was an obvious line of attack as many Republicans, right now, today are questioning of whether a McCain nomination would be such a coffin nail. Even Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh are momentarily on board this train.
The LP has been maintaining since 1971 that the Republican Party isn’t really a party of small, or even smaller, government. Yesterday merely provided a current example in BOLD PRINT.
HOWever – many Republicans do indeed have those beliefs, and it is our job to convince them that the RP never has and never will represent them, not that the RP needs to be ‘saved’ from the likes of John McCain.
I disagree. It is our job to get as many of them on our side as we can today. We have to seize this moment and any other similar moment which comes our way (with either Democrats, independents or Republicans).
If we had wanted to go down that road at all, a better approach would have been to point out that McCain is the perfect EMBODIMENT of the Republican Party, not that he’s some disaster and that if only Republicans could reject him, the RP would be practically Libertarian. Because. It. Would. Not.
Susan, this is where you miss the point the most, IMO. A great deal of Republicans don’t feel the way you do. They are the target—not people who think exactly the way you do. To most Republicans I know, McCain is not their embodiment. The extreme social cons prefer Huckabee. The neocons are mixed between the top three GOP candidates. The fiscal conservatives and paleocons have nowhere to go. They hate McCain for everything from McCain-Feingold to voting against tax cuts to McCain-Kennedy.
What I would like to see the professional staff and other representatives (officers and LNC) of the LP do is to point out the flaws in the ideas of the major parties, not play these personality games or rail against dorks like Huckabee. Combined with pointing out the flawed ideas of the major parties, we should be emphasizing the purity and consistency and righteousness of the ideas we hold. Along with this, we should attack particular programs and offer new ideas ourselves.
To a libertarian (or a Green, Socialist, CP member, etc.) your argument might make sense. In real life, most Republicans and Democrats don’t look deeply into the nuances of political philosophies. Personality games do decide who wins and loses in a great deal of campaigns. Bill Clinton’s saxophone abilities probably won him more votes than his foreign policy positions. With the Democrats today, it’s a matter of a white woman with an allegedly black husband opposed to a black man who may not be black, or experienced, enough. And let’s not forget the mantra of change.
For the Republicans, it’s currently a matter of “straight talk” change, Mormonism or Southern Baptistism. I forgot, there is one ideologue still standing along with the other Republicans—but look how many solid, declared delegates he has won.
Outside of the third party world, I’ve yet to meet someone who votes along the lines you suggested: Purity, consistency and righteousness of ideas. The person is always balanced with the issues.
And I’m not even sure how to reply to your implication that I would rather see Libs attacking other Libs than battling Republicans and Democrats. Within the Party we do have fundamental differences that need to be aired and – if possible – resolved. But in our public face we should concentrate on talking about how wonderful libertarianism is, not what a disaster John McCain may or may not be for the Republican Party.
That’s an educational approach. Now we are back to our some old debate about what should be the mission of a political party.
February 6th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
Bill Westmiller, National Chairman of the Republican Liberty Caucus and a diehard Ron Paul supporter is now saying that the Paul campaign is at the “beginning of the end.”
This is amazing. Westmiller is the hardest of hardcore Paul supporters. For him to say this is almost shocking.
Full story now up at www.mainstreamlibertarian.com
February 6th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Stephen Gordon and his sidekick say that the GOP is now dead for limited government ideals.
I wonder where that leaves people like Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, or Idaho Gov. Butch Otter, or SC Gov. Mark Sanford, or OK Senator Tom Coburn, or Arizona Congressman Jeff Flake or California Cong. Dana Rohrabacher, or Mass. State Sen. Bob Hedlund, or CA Assmb. Tom McClintock, or numerous other elected libertarian Republicans who are even more libertarian than Ron Paul?
February 6th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
Eric Dondero asked: Stephen Gordon and his sidekick say that the GOP is now dead for limited government ideals.
I wonder where that leaves people like Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, or Idaho Gov. Butch Otter, or SC Gov. Mark Sanford, or OK Senator Tom Coburn, or Arizona Congressman Jeff Flake or California Cong. Dana Rohrabacher, or Mass. State Sen. Bob Hedlund, or CA Assmb. Tom McClintock, or numerous other elected libertarian Republicans who are even more libertarian than Ron Paul?
I’m not dealing with the definition of libertarian or individual voting records, but merely generally answering Dondero’s question: An extreme and increasingly unpopular minority within the GOP big tent.
February 6th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
I’ve heard that Rohrabacher used to smoke Pot with George Smith (back before he became a pro-WOD storm trooper). Other than that, what makes him a “libertarian?” Of course, Dondero also thought the neo-fascist Rudy was a “libertarian” so I suppose it is a silly question to ask.
February 6th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
Please don’t elect Susan to the LNC. I beg you. She is starting to reach “Gene Chapman/Daniel Imperato” status.
That’s the craziest comment in this entire thread.
And since there aren’t any Phillies articles today, that means it’s the craziest thing on the site, period.
February 6th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
This all needs to be prefaced by saying that I’m a diehard Ron Paul nut. All I’ve got to say is that I’m saying I told you so to so many Ron Paul supporters who said he would win.
Most of the neophyte Paul supporters should have listened to the normal people instead of the thoughts echoing between the layers of tin foil they wore on their heads.
Bigger still, they should have listened to the campaign consultants who often offered advise or tried to work for the campaign, but were rebuffed by staff members. The should have at least listened to the brighter Libertarians and even Constitution Party people who have been telling them what they need to do all along. At the very minimum, they have learned from their failures and occaisional successes.
Too bad the campaign staff has blown nearly 30 million dollars, mostly on salaries and perks and things. Too bad that the staff was more incompetant then even the most incompetant LP staffs—which are better than the more competant CP staffs. Too bad RP was more concerned about the gold standard than votes. Too bad most of his supporters were more worried about the CFR than in running a winning race. Too bad most of his supporters can’t accept that the polls were generally correct and that RP got more mainsteram media than he actually deserved. Too bad they thought a blimp or yet another X-bomb could win an election. Too bad the staff dumped Anita Andrews—the only person who made sense in all of this. Too bad Gordon didn’t go to Iowa with Seehusen last year. Too bad the campaign staff told Ed Rollins to kiss off.
This was an opportunity of a lifetime. Now it is a blown opportunity of a lifetime. Maybe the movement can be salvaged, but that can only happen if they are now willing to be educated.
February 6th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
oops…
Bigger still, they should have listened …
means…
Bigger still, the national office staff and campaign managers should have listened…
February 6th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
And since there aren’t any Phillies articles today, that means it’s the craziest thing on the site, period.
I’m sitting on some new Imperato video right now, but haven’t had time to post it yet. Just wait, dude.
February 6th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
ToldYou,
I knew about the Ed Rollins thing (and I worked closely with Anita Andrews on a couple of projects), but thought it was a closely held secret. Do you mind popping me an e-mail to discuss this in further detail in confidence?
February 6th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
I’m joining the libertarian party after the texas election. They have been doing this all along, but i didnt know it until the ron paul race. i’ll be with them from here on out.
February 6th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
I hope it wasn’t a concession speech Stephen: with 100% of the CA primary now counted, Imperato has taken down Robert Milnes by 2 votes.
February 6th, 2008 at 11:50 pm
The death of small government in the GOP has been going on since 2000. Bruce Bartlett’s book shows how Bush/Chaney on the domestic front are LBJ Democrats. I am not a big fan of McCain but McCain is hardly the sign of the end of conservatism in the GOP. Other then the war in Iraq which I must confess I supported, on the domestic front, I can’t think of one thing the last eight years, the current GOP president has done that is “small government”.....Medicare Drug act, No Child Left Behind, Patriot Act, domestic spending highest since the 1960s’ etc-.
February 7th, 2008 at 12:03 am
Now if the LP can decide to attract members instead of give them fucking litmus tests to see if they are REALLY libertarian enough, perhaps the party can make a resurgence.
Step 1—nuke the brain-dead “pledge” as a requirement for membership. That was never the purpose of the thing. It has outlived its time—kill it.
February 7th, 2008 at 12:15 am
“Wes Benedict Says:
February 6th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Me Texan. Think wreath funny! Would do same here in Texas but too busy posting on blogs.”
I agree that this was funny and it should be good publicity, but in reality the GOP was a big government party from its inception, examples of Republicans being for big cuts in the size of government has been the exception rather than the rule. The current Bush administration should have destroyed any claim that the GOP has on being a party of limited government.
February 7th, 2008 at 12:16 am
Eric Dondero said: “A decent credible Libertarian candidate will attract great support from disgruntled Republicans. But it’s gotta be someone credible like Wayne Root, Bob Barr, Gary Johnson, Ed Thompson or Bill Weld.”
You forgot to mention Ron Paul. Ron would bring the LP more votes than all of those other candidates combined.
February 7th, 2008 at 12:17 am
Andrew:
Bush is an LBJ Democrat in more ways than one. Like LBJ, he wants to have both guns and butters. In this respect, he is rather typical. Domestic spending and foreign imperialism have tended to grow at the same time in American history, even under Reagan. Pointing his out is one of the most important insights of RP’s campaign. There are good reasons why the Welfare State and Warfare State usually grow together and feed off each other. An LP candidate needs to recognize this historical reality.
February 7th, 2008 at 12:52 am
That’s not going to happen as long as the Constitution Party is alive.
= Exactely. Plus the CP will benifit the most from a McCain candidacy.
However Ron Paul better get his butt to run as a indy soon, or his campaign would’ve been all for nothing, and a lot of CP’ers and LP’ers would be super pissed.
BTW 46 delegates isn’t enough to broker with.
Romney on the other hand…
February 7th, 2008 at 1:07 am
The LP shouldn’t run a presidential candidate. Let’s focus on ballot-access races and then state legislatures.
February 7th, 2008 at 1:08 am
Also, I’m really looking forward to Gordon’s commentary on a video of Imperato. That will probably make my day.
February 7th, 2008 at 1:18 am
I really appreciate this offering of consolation. My heart sunk when the reality of a McCain nomination hit home; but I wrote earlier that I’m not quite ready to write the obituary of CONSERVATISM and I stand by that. McCain is the establishment candidate and will lose like Dole.
Frankly, I don’t give a care what happens to the Republican party.
February 7th, 2008 at 1:18 am
Andy, are you the petitioner?
If so, you might remember how I long ago mentioned that Whole Foods bought Sun Harvest along with other grocers. You petitioned in front of Sun Harvest in 2004 to get the Texas LP on the ballot while Whole Foods didn’t and doesn’t allow petitioning. I think Sun Harvest was spun off in the process of the Whole Foods purchase, but alas, Sun Harvest doesn’t allow petitioning either now even though it’s not part of Whole Foods. Very few private places allow petitioning in Austin now.
Last week it was sunny here in Austin, Texas, my butt was sore from sitting in front of the computer too much, and I decided to take the 200 yard walk from my apartment to Sun Harvest grocery to petition for the anti-corporate subsidies petition here in Austin. The manager at Sun Harvest let me know that they don’t allow any petitioning at any of their stores anymore. Nevertheless, it looks like the petition drive is going to be successful and will be on the ballot in Austin in May and my guess is that it will pass. Here’s the Travis Libertarian Party press release supporting the initiative:
http://www.stopdomainsubsidies.com/blog/?p=9
For those who don’t care, Sun Harvest is a natural foods healthy kind of grocer mostly I believe in Austin and San Antonio. I don’t have much use for them because they only sell the weird stuff and don’t sell Diet Dr. Pepper or Diet Coke, but they do sell Bud Light and like I said, they’re only 200 yards away from my front door. I hear they have good natural food but I do most of my grocery shopping at Super Wal-Mart. I consider Wal-Mart to be my purchasing agents. I only get cross with them when they use eminent domain, but they’re not doing that in Austin.
February 7th, 2008 at 4:56 am
“Wes Benedict Says:
February 7th, 2008 at 1:18 am
Andy, are you the petitioner?”
Yeah, I’m the one who helped put the Libertarian Party back on the ballot in Texas.
“If so, you might remember how I long ago mentioned that Whole Foods bought Sun Harvest along with other grocers. You petitioned in front of Sun Harvest in 2004 to get the Texas LP on the ballot while Whole Foods didn’t and doesn’t allow petitioning. I think Sun Harvest was spun off in the process of the Whole Foods purchase, but alas, Sun Harvest doesn’t allow petitioning either now even though it’s not part of Whole Foods. Very few private places allow petitioning in Austin now.”
That’s a damn shame about Sun Harvest. They were one of only a small handful of stores that didn’t hassle petitioners in 2004. The manager at that Sun Harvest near you was a good guy. He came out and signed the petition and would come out and talk to me when he was on breaks.
I’m suprised that Whole Foods has taken such an anti-petitioner stance. The reason that I’m suprised is because the founder and head of Whole Foods – John Mackey – is supposed to be a libertarian. You’d think that he’d be in favor of people taking part in the petition process, especially for pro-liberty causes.
I put out the suggestion to LP National to get in touch with John Mackey and to explain to him how important it is for people gathering signatures on pro-liberty petitions to have places where they collect signatures. In a few states, collecting signatures on petitions is recognized as a legal right and people can collect signatures anywhere that is open to the public including in front of stores (which are the modern day equivalent to the old town squares), however, most states do not recognize this. In Texas it was especially difficult to get locations for petition signature gathering. The bottom line is that the more difficult it is to gather petition signatures the less chance that people have at gaining ballot access and/or making changes in government. John Mackey is in a unique situation where all he’d have to do is to send out word to all of his store managers around the country that petitioning is OK and it would be a huge help for ballot access. I know of instances where petitions failed to qualify for the ballot for the simple reason that it was too difficult to get locations to gather signatures.
“Here’s the Travis Libertarian Party press release supporting the initiative:
http://www.stopdomainsubsidies.com/blog/?p=9”
Sounds like a great initiative. I hope that it qualifies for the ballot and passes.
“I consider Wal-Mart to be my purchasing agents. I only get cross with them when they use eminent domain, but they’re not doing that in Austin.”
I hate Wal-Mart. They are probably the most corrupt store chain that there is.
February 7th, 2008 at 7:15 am
Best petitioning spot in the entire State of Texas by far:
Texas A&M branch campus in Corpus Christi. Scott Kohlhaas and I kicked ass for two days there, hundreds a day each, easily. And the Security Guards are super cool, and the Administration very welcoming.
February 7th, 2008 at 7:18 am
Andy, Ron Paul has said explicitly in our local newspaper here in Brazoria County, Texas that he will “not” run on the Libertarian Party ticket, if he decides to go 3rd party.
I think he’ll run. But it will be as an Independent, or on an assortment of Constitutionalist Party tickets, like the Texas Independence Party, or American Independent in Nevada, ect… I hear there’s already been talks behind the scenes to that effect.
February 7th, 2008 at 7:19 am
Andy, come to think of it, that means they’ll be an enormous opportunity for professional petititioners like yourself. Ron Paul will still have millions of $$$ to spend. He’ll pay petitioners top dollar, I’m sure. Cause they’ll have to act fast.
Only problem is you’ll be petitioning for the CP not the LP.
February 7th, 2008 at 7:21 am
Stephen Gordon says that libertarian Republicans like Sarah Palin, Governor of Alaska are not “an extreme minority within the GOP’s Big Tent.”
That’s funny, cause Sarah Palin’s last round of approval ratings in AK had her at 85%. And she’s widely regarded as a frontrunner for the Republican Party VP selection.
Almost ditto for Butch Otter.
And Dr. Tom Coburn of Oklahamo is now one of the leading spokesepersons for limited government conservatives in the GOP. Hardly a member of “an extreme minority.”
February 7th, 2008 at 7:25 am
What makes Rohrabacher a “libertarian”? He was the founder of the modern libertarian political movement in the late 1960s as Libertarian Caucus leader of YAF. That Caucus went on to become the modern-day Libertarian Party.
Today Rohrabacher is a big supporter of marijuana legalization, and ending the Military Draft. He also scores 2nd and 3rd highest each year on the Liberty Index published by the Republican Liberty Caucus.
Additionally, he maintains very close relations with local Libertarians in Orange County, CA like Bruce Cohen and other LP oldtimers.
February 7th, 2008 at 7:36 am
Eric,
Palin and Otter are rare exceptions these days. If you wish to look at the numbers, simply consider how many Republicans recently voted for issues like Medicare Part D, No Child Left Behind, the Patriot Act—or voted against bills like Hinchey-Rohrabacher.
February 7th, 2008 at 7:47 am
Funniest line of the year goes to “DonderoHogarthLoveChild” for:
The What Would Rothbard Do moment comment.
The pregnant insight of that one will pay dividends and laughs for months!
As a stunt, the wreath’s a B. Sister Hogarth is in some ways technically correct. Yet, don’t many Rs believe they are for limited government? They may not be “nonarchists,” which may well disappoint Susan, but inviting Rs to bolt sounds like a good idea to me.
And I’m a left libertarian!
February 7th, 2008 at 9:25 am
THIS is the sort of thing I’d like to see the LP do more of:
http://action.downsizedc.org/wyc.php?cid=77
I am Not Afraid
February 7th, 2008 at 9:50 am
Steven, that is all true that the GOP has went along with Bush’s big government conservatism over the last eight years. But, the reality of it is that this country is a two party system and the only way libertarians are going to change things is to work with in the GOP and disband the LP itself and become a pressure group much like the National Rifle Association or People for the American Way etc-.
February 7th, 2008 at 10:05 am
Stephen writes:
A great deal of Republicans don’t feel the way you do. They are the target—not people who think exactly the way you do.
I do not think the LP needs to worry overmuch about attracting people who think exactly as I do. There’s only one of them, and she’s been pretty solidly hooked already.
On the other hand, I do think the LP is strongest appealing to people who are – or who are very close to – libertarian already. Only after many of these folks have been added to the Party’s ranks will we be able to see an electoral difference. Elections are the poll that tells us how much effect we’re having – not the effect itself.
To a libertarian (or a Green, Socialist, CP member, etc.) your argument might make sense. In real life, most Republicans and Democrats don’t look deeply into the nuances of political philosophies. Personality games do decide who wins and loses in a great deal of campaigns.
I think we do need to acknowledge that we are – operationally – more like the GP than the RP. What I mean by that is that we are a third/ideological party within a pretty strict two-party system. Trying to act like “most Republicans and Democrats” operationally is, I think, a poor strategy for moving the country in a libertarian direction – and I think it will lead to a quick demise of the LP itself. People who want what the Democrats and Republicans offer have a place to get it. Even if they feel their party has gotten away from its ‘roots’, they are going to be largely inclined to stay and ‘fix’ it, rather than bail for a party with very little evident power which simply promises the same thing they’ve heard promised for decades in their own party. After all, they must know the chances of delivery – even if the promise is sincere – is pretty limited for at least the near future.
Also (big point here): do we really want to tell disgruntled Republicans that we are “True conservatives”? Because, you know, I just don’t think we are. And are we at the same time telling Democrats that we’re the “True liberals”? Because that gets downright confusing. If we go down the road of being uber-Republican, then we run the real risk of alienating actual libertarians who come from the traditional Left. Of course, some will manage to find us anyway – I was one, for instance, and when I became active in the LP it already was into this strong rightward trend.
I want to be part of a political party that represents what I beleive in politically – libertarianism. I don’t want to be the ‘real conservative’ party, or the ‘real liberal’ party – I want to be in the real libertarian party. You can probably win a few disgruntled Republicans by the strategies you’re talking about here, but do bear in mind that you risk alienating a strong base of libertarians who have been with the Party – and active, and hardworking, and donating – for years, sometimes decades. Is that really what you want?
That’s an educational approach.
Focusing on the positive message of libertarianism is and should be educational, but it does not and should not preclude electioneering. I think one difference in our viewpoint is that I see elections as an indicator of where people are, and not so much as a primary tool of gaining power. People who have power win elections, but many choose to beleive the feel-good myth that winning elections brings power. I think that’s largely backward, and that having power – convincing people you are right – is what wins elections.
Winning office can certainly bring more overt power, and can allow you to showcase your approach and ‘bootstrap’ more people to your ideology (or some ear version of of) – but in that sense even winning office is ‘educational’.
Look at the Ron Paul example, for instance. For years, Libs have been saying things like “If we only had real money, we could easily prevail!” Well, the Paul campaign not only had real money but it had positioning within a major political party. And it had/has a lot of incredibly energetic supporters. So why the low numbers at the polls? The media issue; Republican party insiderism? Yes to both. But the ultimate reason, I beleive, is that there simply aren’t enough people who really (1) understand and (b) embrace libertarianism (or the pretty-close version Paul was offering). Now, Paul’s campaign is a good thing in the sense that it increases the visibility and understanding of libertarianism (though we have the problem with the identification with conservativism implied by his adoption of a pretty-close version suited to the right…), but it’s not anywhere close to an endpoint or even midpoint for us. What the attempt should make clear is that (1) there is a strong hunger for (at least some) libertarian ideas, and (2) many Republicans want to remake their party into their conservative image, and (3) there are a ton of people out there who will go to pretty great lengths when they have a sense that they can ‘win’. I think our best strategy as members of the LP is to wish the Republicans who want to make the RP better well, and stand distinct as a home for those excited by Paul’s campaign who want real libertarianism rather than real conservativism.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
“Eric Dondero Says:
February 7th, 2008 at 7:15 am
Best petitioning spot in the entire State of Texas by far:
Texas A&M branch campus in Corpus Christi. Scott Kohlhaas and I kicked ass for two days there, hundreds a day each, easily. And the Security Guards are super cool, and the Administration very welcoming.”
I tried to collect petition signatures at the University of Texas in Austin. I say “tried” because after being on the campus for about 2 minutes I got swarmed by the campus cops and threatened with arrest. I saw a couple of other petitioners get tickets from the campus cops and got escorted off of the campus. I ended up getting some signatures off of a sidewalk that was across the street from the campus, but this spot wasn’t nearly as good as it would have been if I could have actually been on the campus.
I heard that a lot of the other colleges in Texas were pulling this same kind of crap. I know that petitioners got hassled at colleges in Dallas, San Antonio, and El Paso, and probably some other places as well.
I later heard that there was a free speech Texas Supreme Court where the decision ruled against some college for supressing free speech and that because of this the college in question did not hassle petitioners. Too bad that the campaigns that were collecting petition signatures (the Libertarian Party and the Ralph Nader campaign) didn’t know about this or didn’t spread the word about it if they did know. If the campaigns had been better organized it is quite possible that we could have gotten all of the colleges to back down and this would have made the drive run more smoothe (and note that the Nader petition drive actually failed in Texas).
February 7th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
“Eric Dondero Says:
February 7th, 2008 at 7:18 am
Andy, Ron Paul has said explicitly in our local newspaper here in Brazoria County, Texas that he will ‘not’ run on the Libertarian Party ticket, if he decides to go 3rd party.
I think he’ll run. But it will be as an Independent, or on an assortment of Constitutionalist Party tickets, like the Texas Independence Party, or American Independent in Nevada, ect… I hear there’s already been talks behind the scenes to that effect.”
I wouldn’t count Ron Paul out as a Libertarian Party candidate just yet. Ron has still got a lot of ties to the LP and the LP already has ballot status in about 30 states. The Constitution Party is only on the ballot in 16 states so that means that his campaign would have to do a heck of a lot more petitioning than if he ran as an LP candidate.
One thing that I could see Ron Paul doing is running as a fusion candidate, that is picking up both the Constitution Party nomination and the Libertarian Party nomination.
Regaurdless of whether Ron continues running as a Republican, or if he runs as an independent or Constitution Party candidate or a Libertarian Party candidate or a fusion candidate, he’s still got my support.
February 11th, 2008 at 1:09 am
Seek out and support Libertarian candidates and candidates of any Party who champion freedom!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ifbFKKMe40
February 11th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
Kevin Houston et al, some States still do not ALLOW write-in votes. At all. Period. For any election, at any level. In fact, in my State, any vote for any candidate who isn’t on the FINAL OFFICIAL ballot must be discarded and not counted for ANY reason, not even the historical record. This includes votes cast by absentee voter candidates for any candidate who was on the official absentee ballot but who dropped out between the absentee voting day and official election day.
February 11th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
As a conservative, I’ve found myself voting almost exclusively for Republicans over the years, however that isn’t apparently an option now, so as a registered Republican I fully and happily receive the wreath (and think the picture in it is sadly appropriate) and wish it well.
(And don’t even quote me Ron Paul; I live in Texas. I don’t care how well you debate or expound on issues, a nut-case is still a nut-case—even if less a nut-case than McCain)
I could have at least held my nose and voted Romney since the only other credentialed conservative ended his campaign. McCain… vs Billary vs Obamacult…liberal vs liberal vs liberal, and none of them with a soul.