Root responds to Knapp’s attack

Yesterday, we published portions of an article written by Thomas Knapp attacking potential Libertarian Party presidential nominee Wayne Allyn Root. Here is Root’s response:

by Wayne Allyn Root

I’m surprised you’d print such dirty, filthy remarks without checking on their truth with me. This is gutter politics at its worst. Mr. Knapp is obviously DESPERATE to try to revive his friend Steve Kubby’s campaign. I feel that I need a shower after reading his remarks. Mr. Kubby should be ashamed to be associated with such dirty below-the-belt political trash. If Mr. Kubby thinks he has to play in the gutter and trash my reputation to win, then he deserves the wrath he’ll get from all good Libertarians for allowing his supporters to play gutter politics. This is beneath the LP. And to think I thought we were different (and superior to) the 2-party system.

Thomas Knapp is obviously a vicious man who enjoys playing dirty in the mud. I’m sorry to report that he knows zero about business. I sold my company Winning Edge International’s assets for $6.5 million dollars in September. Those assets are my brand name (the most famous name in all of gambling), my popular web site www.WinningEDGE.com, my TV show Wayne Allyn Root’s WinningEDGE, and my database of over two MILLION fans and clients.

That sale left an empty public stock shell with nothing in it. That shell has ceased all business operations. That is the company Mr. Knapp refers to. It is in fact empty- with no assets, no dollars and no business operations. It may be sold (an empty shell is worth about $500,000). Or it may be handed over to creditors to settle all remaining debts. It may be thrown into Bankruptcy. That is all in negotiations. That is a simple business decision made thousands of times a day on Wall Street. But Mr. Knapp obviously wouldn’t understand a sophisticated business deal or negotiation if it hit him in the face. His only assets are writing vicious attack pieces without a clue as to facts.

Not only were the assets of my company sold for $6.5 million dollars to a European public company- but also as part of the deal I was given a lucrative 5-year employment contract and 1,000,000 stock options for my first year in the new public company. A rather impressive deal. But unlike other contenders for the LP nomination- I’ve never mentioned the name of my company at debates…or my web site…or my TV show…or my database…or my impressive deal for my brand name. I’m running for President of the United States…I’m not promoting my business. I’m promoting my ideas- which are obviously better than any other LP candidate- based on factual voting results of the first 3 primaries and the California LP Preference Poll.

Mr. Knapp also has “missed the forest for the trees.” I am an accomplished small businessman who has numerous businesses and projects going at the same time. I do NOT make my living only from my sports handicapping career. I have enjoyed a diverse and prolific career as an entrepreneur, author and speaker. Those careers provide a substantial revenue stream. I have authored 6 books- mostly to major publishers (with 6 figure advances). I’ve written a national best seller (Millionaire Republican was ranked #1 in the country in Personal Finance at Amazon.com).

I’ve sold TV shows to Hollywood- “King of Vegas” attracted the magical number of over one million viewers for an episode in 2006. I served as Creator, Executive Producer and co-host of the TV show. My production company Cool Hand Root Productions served as producer as well. I am currently the Executive Producer of a new documentary about the famous and remarkable Entebbe raid by Israel 30 years ago. I am also one of the producers of a new major motion picture entitled “Cousins” about the remarkable lives of 3 American celebrity cousins- Jerry Lee Lewis, Mickey Gilley and Rev. Jimmy Swaggert. And it looks like I’ve just sold a new TV series to a major cable network. I’m also busy pitching a new book to the biggest publishers in New York.

I am also an accomplished business and motivational speaker with a rate of $15,000 per speech- please see here: Click Here: Check out “Wayne Allyn Root | Premiere Motivational Speakers Bureau”

Separate from all that listed above, I’ve built numerous small businesses- some successful, some flops. As any entrepreneur knows- to create business success you need to be a daring, courageous risk-taker. Only those with the CHUTZPAH to risk their own money (and put their money where their mouth is) would understand that. I’m certain from Mr. Knapp’s comments that he has never risked his own money in his life. All great entrepreneurs fail FAR more often than they succeed.

I’ve probably flopped and failed a dozen times for each one of my successes. But the key to success in life is that all your failures and flops are magically erased by one success. Or as I say in my books, “One YES changes your life!” That’s why I wrote a book called “The Joy of Failure” – to explain to people who aren’t familiar with the process of success (and risk) – like Mr. Knapp- how the process works. As JFK said, “Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever succeed greatly.” Mr. Knapp will unfortunately never know that feeling.

Last but not least, I’ve had over TWO MILLION callers in my career as the premiere sports handicapper on American TV. As many as 10,000 to 15,000 call me every Saturday morning during football season. That’s over 100,000 new callers (and fans) each season. Out of those millions of callers Mr. Knapp points out that I’ve had 14 complaints in 9 years. I accept that record as PHENOMENAL. I’m sure icons of American business like Merrill Lynch, Charles Schwab, AT&T, Mercedes Benz, Comcast Cable and Microsoft get more complaints every day of the year than I have had in 22 years. My sterling record is a testament to my attention to detail and world-class customer service. No one with over two million clients can make everyone happy. But I’d say 14 complaints out of millions of callers and clients is about as close to perfection as any businessman can get.

P.S. Those millions of fans and clients, and 100,000 new callers each season are all ideal VOTERS and contributors to my LP Presidential campaign. Hint, hint- I bring quite a following to the LP.

147 Responses to “Root responds to Knapp’s attack”

  1. BillTX Says:

    Geez, talk about butthurt.

  2. Sivarticus Says:

    I don’t understand why Libertarians are fawning over this guy. In a year when they could capture Ron Paul support (presuming there’s no Ron Paul in November), why are they inching closer and closer to this guy? He’s a warmonger and reminds me of a cheesy used car salesman, at best. Not impressed. Not at all. The LP will only earn my consideration of a vote if they dump this idiot.

  3. Nigel Watt Says:

    I thought the attraction to Root was that he seemed to have himself together. This was a little spastic.

  4. disinter Says:

    I’m surprised you’d print such dirty, filthy remarks without checking on their truth with me.

    Well how on earth are they going to promote their agenda by doing silly stuff like fact-checking?

  5. disinter Says:

    I bring quite a following to the LP.

    No wonder they don’t like you.

  6. Hugh Jass Says:

    LEAVE WAYNE ALONE!!

  7. Hugh Jass Says:

    Maybe its just me, but the last 7 paragraphs seem to display his ego.

  8. Joseph Marzullo Says:

    Whatever happened to all of those media interviews that Wayne promised us MONTH AGO? What a liar. He’s just a self-promoter.

  9. Rich Paul Says:

    Seems like people who are successful SHOULD take pride in it.

  10. Roscoe Says:

    One can see shell corporations for sale every day in the WSJ for a lot less than $500,000. It would have to have some unique intangible assets to be worth that much. But it looks like it has creditors too. Assuming those creditors are owed significant money which can’t be recouped from sale of the shell, then they will certainly be going after the assets that Mr. Root sold off (and pocketed?)

  11. Thomas L. Knapp Says:

    Roscoe,

    Bingo.

    Wayne Allyn Root just publicly admitted—actually, proclaimed—that he raided his own company, left it an empty shell, pocketed the money and probably (and he could care less) left his creditors (and any stockholders) screwed.

    I’ll do a line by line on this piece later, but right now the only thing I’d like to know is whether I can publish Root’s piece on my own blog. He does a much better job of tearing himself to shreds than I possibly could.

  12. ElfNinosMom Says:

    This seems like a complete overreaction by Root. I read Knapp’s piece both here and in its entirety on his site, and while I’m not a fan of his attack pieces (and in fact he and I have clashed on more than one occasion) I really didn’t think it was anywhere near as bad as Root is claiming. It certainly wasn’t something I’d call dirty, filthy, or trash, because Knapp wasn’t just making it up. I checked the links for myself, and they do raise questions.

    Rather than answer those concerns in a calm, professional manner, it appears Root is trying to shout Knapp down. That’s exactly what I would expect from someone who does infomercials, but not at all what I would expect from a serious presidential candidate.

    Knapp’s article may have been an “attack piece”, but if so, Root’s response is the same, though far less professionally written.

    What bothers me the most about Root’s response is that he still did not address the scamdicapping allegation, so as far as I’m concerned, he conveniently ignored what was by far the most serious allegation raised by Knapp.

    I googled the terms scamdicapper + Root, and found many additional sources for that allegation, which go back years before Knapp said it. The New York Post called him that (along with calling him a “braggart” and a “liar”) along with many other sources. Don’t just take my word for it, google it yourself. I think that it is a very serious allegation, since it concerns alleged large-scale fraud, and I think it needs to be addressed by the Root campaign if he expects libertarians to take him seriously as a Libertarian candidate.

  13. Chris Moore Says:

    What bothers me the most about Root’s response is that he still did not address the scamdicapping allegation

    Anyone that sells sports-betting tips is going to get hit with the label “scamdicapper”. How do you respond to such an allegation? The man sells educated guesses, for God’s sake. It’s not a product I’m at all interested in, but as I mentioned on Knapp’s blog earlier, a dozen complaints with the BBB is nothing. I wish I would have had such a low rate of customer complaints when I was retailing guitars. I’d have 100 happy customers and 1 unhappy customer. You can literally not please about 1% of your customers. I’m SHOCKED that his complaint rate isn’t much larger considering the product he sells.

    Wayne Allyn Root just publicly admitted—actually, proclaimed—that he raided his own company, left it an empty shell, pocketed the money and probably (and he could care less) left his creditors (and any stockholders) screwed.

    He claimed to have sold the company’s assets. As the major stockholder (I would assume) in the company, he had every right to do so. If there were other stockholders (and there is little reason to believe there were many if any), then he probably should explain what happened to their investment. However, he can’t just sell the companies assets and pocket the cash for himself. That would be illegal. I’m sure his stockholders got their piece. As far as the creditors go, they may get screwed, but he certainly didn’t state that they were going to get screwed. Apparently that is an ongoing negotiation between him and the company’s creditors.

    Maybe its just me, but the last 7 paragraphs seem to display his ego.

    Concerning his bragging: Knapp questioned whether or not Root was actually a sucessful business man. How does he respond to that without talking about his various ongoing business deals?

    Whatever happened to all of those media interviews that Wayne promised us MONTH AGO? What a liar. He’s just a self-promoter.

    He has had far more earned media exposure than all the other LP presidential candidates combined.

    This seems like a complete overreaction by Root.

    I can completely understand why Root responded the way he did. Knapp called the man a liar and a fraud. Very loudly and very publicly. What do you expect?

  14. Thomas L. Knapp Says:

    OK, time for a line-by-line. This will probably require more than one comment post. I’m dedicating the first one to the cui bono question.

    The first thing to take notice of in Root’s piece is how quickly he tries to associate my piece with an opponent’s campaign. Of course, there is some reason to do so—I do support, and have worked with, one of his opponents.

    I don’t expect anyone to take my word for it that I neither sought the approval of Steve Kubby to write my piece, nor would have accepted an instruction from Steve Kubby to not write or publish it. You can believe that or not believe it—but that’s how it is. I informed the campaign that I would be writing it. I did not ask permission. My reply to any contrary instruction would have been “too bad—I guess I don’t work for you any more.”

    There’s a reason that I eschew significant payment from the campaigns I work for until late in the game. That reason is that I prefer to remain a free agent. I’ve taken a total, to my recollection, of $180 from the Kubby campaign. $100 of it was pay for a service that it ended up costing me more than $100 to provide; $80 of it was reimbursement for a suite I rented to run a Kubby hospitality suite at the 2007 Missouri LP convention (that $80 may have gone to Tamara rather than myself—she rented the suite).

    Since I refuse to take significant pay, I’m in a position where I don’t have to worry that my every action might endanger the next weekly paycheck. Kubby wasn’t exactly happy that I planned to publish an attack piece on Root, for the simple reason that that’s not Kubby’s style. But it’s my style, and I did it on my own dime.

    If Kubby is bald the next time you see him, you should know in advance that he will not be the first candidate to have pulled his own hair out over the fact that I don’t take a leash. Unless you see notice on something that I’ve written that it is from the Kubby campaign, it isn’t.

    As noted above, I don’t necessarily expect anyone to accept that. I don’t care if you accept it or not. I’m not here to coddle you and make you feel all warm and fuzzy. I’m here to give you the facts. What you do with those facts is up to you.

    End of part one. Selah.

  15. johncjackson Says:

    Root displays the fighting passion we need in a candidate.

  16. Thomas L. Knapp Says:

    Okay, part two of the line by line. In this part, I’m going to specifically address Root’s comments about me personally, regardless of where they appear in his response. I’ll quote and comment inline.

    Mr. Knapp is obviously DESPERATE to try to revive his friend Steve Kubby’s campaign.

    So far as I can tell, Kubby’s campaign doesn’t need “reviving.” None of the LP presidential campaigns—NONE of them, including Kubby’s and including Root’s—have raised or spent significant money, garnered extensive media coverage, or broken away from the pack in terms of voter or delegate support.

    Do I hope that my candidate will be the first to do so? Absolutely.

    Am I going to pretend that in a race in which neither Root nor Kubby has won a primary and in which Root has won a single straw poll in a single state, that Root has somehow magically become the nominee apparent while Kubby is stalled alongside the road by comparison? Not a chance.

    On the basis of pure inside baseball, I’d give my left nut to have narrowed the field to Kubby and Root by the national convention. My candidate would whip Wayne Allyn Root like a redheaded stepchild.

    But this isn’t about Kubby, it’s about the LP. The last thing the LP needs is Root’s medicine show on display in front of those millions … well, okay, dozens … of C-SPAN viewers. I want Root out of the race before he further damages the LP, even though having him in the race would benefit Kubby immeasurably.

    Thomas Knapp is obviously a vicious man who enjoys playing dirty in the mud. I’m sorry to report that he knows zero about business.

    vicious: Characterized by vice or defects; defective; faulty; imperfect.

    Okay, I can buy that. The next time I meet a man who isn’t vicious, I’ll buy him a beer and ask him how he pulled it off. Hasn’t happened yet.

    As far as enjoying playing dirty in the mud goes, well, I’m not playing. I’m fighting. And if my opponent has built an arena of mud around himself, well, that’s where I’m going to have to go to whip his ass.

    Mr. Root may be right that I know zero about business. I’ve spent the last five years starting and operating a business that barely keeps me in ramen noodles. Silly me, I thought that business should be about providing the best product you can provide, not about reeling in the suckers and screwing them.

    Mr. Knapp obviously wouldn’t understand a sophisticated business deal or negotiation if it hit him in the face. His only assets are writing vicious attack pieces without a clue as to facts.

    I also have a nice library of used paperback books and a couple of packs of cigarettes. Oh, and a magic 8-ball. Mustn’t forget the magic 8-ball.

    I’m certain from Mr. Knapp’s comments that he has never risked his own money in his life.

    “Doubt is not a pleasant condition but certainty is an absurd one.”—Voltaire

    As JFK said, “Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever succeed greatly.” Mr. Knapp will unfortunately never know that feeling.

    Oh, I’ve failed greatly, many times. And if I should eventually succeed, I intend to succeed greatly as well—as opposed to succeeding by exploiting the gullible. That’s a big difference between myself and Root.

  17. Jim Says:

    Ask Root about his star on Las Vegas Blvd? He’ll tell you what an honor it is. If you check his website he has more than 15 pictures commemorating the event. What he won’t tell you is his best friend nominated him and you have to pay $15,000.00 out of your own pocket for a star. Any Las Vegas resident can get a star if they pay the fee. Also, all these radio shows and TV half hour shows you see him on are paid infomertials. This guy is the Tom Vu of handicappers and we all know Tom Vu went to jail for fraud and money laundering. These are just two examples of what a fraud Wayne Root really is. Underneath the make up and little 5’5 frame is an insecure liar who preys on gamblers who think he’s the end all when he in reality doesn’t even have a 50% win rate over the last 5 years on his dart tosses.

  18. Chuck Moulton Says:

    Never argue with a mudslinger. He’ll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  19. disinter Says:

    Chris Moore – well said.

  20. Scott Lieberman Says:

    “Jim Says: February 28th, 2008 at 2:45 pm

    This guy is the Tom Vu of handicappers and we all know Tom Vu went to jail for fraud and money laundering. These are just two examples of what a fraud Wayne Root really is. Underneath the make up and little 5’5 frame is an insecure liar who preys on gamblers who think he’s the end all when he in reality doesn’t even have a 50% win rate over the last 5 years on his dart tosses.”

    *****************

    Disclaimer – I am one of the original members of Wayne Root’s unofficial campaign advisory team.

    Before you go off claiming that Wayne is a “scamdicapper”, check out this link, and, if you don’t believe it, Google the links in this article…

    http://www.allbusiness.com/legal/banking-law-banking-finance-regulation/5882636-1.html

    As to Wayne’s public personna – yes – Wayne can seem “over the top” to some Libertarians.

    How do you think professional athletes and actors get those multi-million dollar endorsement contracts? Sometimes they can get away with being low-key, but most of the time they are hyper and over-the-top, because that is how you get people to pay attention to you.

    You do want people to pay attention to the Libertarian Presidential nominee, don’t you? Wayne just had his “pre-interview” with Glenn Beck’s producer. Beck is one of the five most listened-to radio talk-show-hosts in America. If Wayne does get that interview, that will mean over 3,000,000 people will get to hear Wayne. Is that a good thing, or a bad thing, for the LP?

    Wayne Root is not perfect – no one is. But I am quite certain that Root’s background will withstand scrutiny, as long as the scrutinizers tell the whole truth about what they find.

  21. Thomas L. Knapp Says:

    Chuck,

    In the real world, those who take your advice lose. See, for example, John McCain in 2000 or Michael Dukakis in 1988.

    The LP very much needs to realize that this whole “let’s gather round the fire, sing Kum Ba Ya, and choose the most winning smile” routine is Amateur Night bullshit.

    Politics is a FIGHT. It has winners and it has losers, and it is conducted in a real world made of dirt and water—mud. Pretending that the mud isn’t there won’t keep it off your shoes, and declining to use every weapon at your disposal, including bona fide mud made with real dirt and real water, in a fight is a great way to lose that fight.

    There’s always a chance that our candidate will actually get a chance to get in the ring with McCain or Obama. Do you want to choose that candidate with a beauty contest or maybe a dance competition? The LP does itself a disservice if it goes that route.

    If Libertarians aren’t kicking the tires on all the candidates, looking for the weaknesses, bringing out those weaknesses and watching to see whether or not the candidates can turn them into strengths, then the LP isn’t serious.

    I have certainly conducted my fair share, and then some, of attacks on candidates. I have no apologies to make for that. Any candidate who can’t withstand my attacks is going to fall apart in seconds when he or she sits down across from Bill O’Reilly or comes under the lens of any serious investigative reporter with real resources to put into the examination. Better to weed the non-hackers out now than wait for the MSM to do so if the MSM should by chance deign to notice them at all.

    It’s not my job to attack my own candidate, of course—it’s my job to prep my candidate to fend off attacks. So far, the attacks on Kubby have been weak redes. Frankly, I’m disappointed that someone hasn’t really made the effort to land a punch on him yet.

  22. disinter Says:

    You do want people to pay attention to the Libertarian Presidential nominee, don’t you?

    No, they don’t. Their agenda is very clear.

  23. Thomas L. Knapp Says:

    Quoth Scott Lieberman:

    “If Wayne does get that interview, that will mean over 3,000,000 people will get to hear Wayne. Is that a good thing, or a bad thing, for the LP?”

    I’d have to say “bad thing,” since you didn’t list “fucking disaster” as an option.

  24. disinter Says:

    as long as the scrutinizers tell the whole truth about what they find.

    Good luck with that one.

  25. disinter Says:

    The LP very much needs to realize that this whole “let’s gather round the fire, sing Kum Ba Ya, and choose the most winning smile” routine is Amateur Night bullshit.

    Yes, flinging ridiculous ad hominem attacks at our candidates is much more productive. We are moving up into the big leagues now.

  26. KenRWilson Says:

    Wayne Root is a liar and can’t be trusted at all. Look at the response he wrote back to Mr. Knapp. He claims to have gotten over 2 million calls over his career as a handicapper where he has to buy time to get on the air. Of those 2 million calls almost all are in a response to get what they think is a free game that he touts over and over on his show.Of course idiots will call to get the 10,000 star lock or NFC parlay of the year. Does he give them that free game? Of course not. It’s all a bait and switch tactic. He’ll deny it to his death but that’s what it is. His company is a telemarketing company plain andsimple. No other way to spin it. When he gets gone getting as much money out of the client the other 4 or 5 companies like Ron Meyer or Al McMordie who he also owns will start cold calling the past client. When that’s all done he’ll sell of the name.Most if not almost all of these 2 million people are neither clients or fans of his and I’d bet less than a few thousand of those 2 million plus names are even still clients. Ask Root also about how his company’s stock was $2.50 a share when it started and went to almost nothing in three year. There’s a sucker born every minute and this international company that bought his company will almost surely be pissed they bought Root’s company that’s worth less than nothing and be lloking to sue him to get out of the deal or dump him at the first opportunity. Root talks about failure. Yes he has failed a lot. In his successes it’s not because the idea or the company was any good but because he sold someone on the idea and the idiots paid for it. No one else made any substantial money except for Root and his close friends. I wonder if anyone even paid 15,000 to hear him speak. The only thing he knows how to do well is fleece the public and other companies out of their hard earned dollar. Root, Do us all a favor and scram before we expose you you worse than a prostitute on skid row.

  27. Wes Benedict Says:

    It’s time to get ready for the 2008 Rumble in the Mile-high Concrete Jungle

    Root won this round. Knapp lost. Ding-Ding-Ding.

  28. disinter Says:

    I haven’t paid any attention to the LP candidates this year so far, but I think I will support Root based on Knapp’s ridiculous attack alone.

  29. Susan Hogarth Says:

    I haven’t paid any attention to the LP candidates this year so far, but I think I will support Root based on Knapp’s ridiculous attack alone.

    Now there’s a great strategy for picking a candidate. I guess it beats dartboarding a bunch of names. Well, actually, it doesn’t.

  30. disinter Says:

    Thank you for your generous donation!

    Transaction ID: 3KA70326800237147
    Amount: USD 500.00
    ——————
    Go Root!

  31. disinter Says:

    Now there’s a great strategy for picking a candidate. I guess it beats dartboarding a bunch of names. Well, actually, it doesn’t.

    As if any of them would get any significant amount of votes…

  32. Thomas L. Knapp Says:

    disinter,

    Do I want people to pay attention to the LP nominee?

    Absolutely. But that’s step two.

    Step one is having a nominee who makes the LP look good when he is paid attention to.

    Hell, we could get all the attention we wanted by nominating a Charles Manson / Eric Rudolph ticket. But is that the kind of attention we want?

    Now, I’ll admit that Wayne Root is no Charles Manson or Eric Rudolph. Like I said, I bet he loves his kids and means it when he kisses his wife goodbye before he goes to the office. He’s got some self-promotional chops.

    BUT: If the LP nominates him, and if he’s able to attract serious attention, what kind of questions is he going to be asked? What are his answers going to be? Are those answers going to reflect well on the LP?

    Mr. Root, your company sold its assets, defaulted on its loans and drove its stock down to 8 one-hundredths of a cent per share. Why do you think you have the business acumen to act as CEO of a nation?

    Mr. Root, mere months before you declared your presidential candidacy, you endorsed a John McCain / Joe Lieberman presidential ticket. Do you withdraw that endorsement? What changed?

    Mr. Root, you originally supported the invasion of Iraq. Even after becoming a presidential candidate, you supported the occupation of Iraq. Later, you announced that Iraq had been the wrong war, and that what we really need is a fight with Iran. Now you’re talking about a generally non-interventionist policy. Um, what will it be next week? And the week after you are inaugurated? And the week after that?

    Mr. Root, up until you decided to seek the Libertarian Party’s presidential nomination, you were on record in favor of defining marriage as “one man, one woman.” Later, [see Iraq question above].

    Mr. Root, you’ve been accused various times of running multiple sets of picks in your sports handicapping business. If I call your campaign headquarters two times, half an hour apart, from different phone numbers, will I get two different sets of issues positions?

    Mr. Root, between your McCain/Lieberman endorsement and your statement in the Las Vegas Review-Journal that you would only run for president as a Libertarian if it wouldn’t hurt your chances to later run for US Senate as a Republican, I’m a bit confused. Exactly which party is it that you’re with?

  33. disinter Says:

    and if he’s able to attract serious attention

    Not gonna happen. With any of them.

  34. Jim Says:

    Scott – Let me give you some advise. Run , not walk as fast as you can away from Wayne Root. The great winning percentages you mention that Wayne Root attained were many years ago. We’re in 2008 not 2000. What has he done lately? Also, those percentages he attained were on just one of his 10 clubs. Here’s how the trick or should I say shell game works. If he get’s hot in one of the 10 clubs , let’s say 9 wins and 3 losses he’ll stop giving plays in that club so he can advertise that he’s 75% on the season. We’re not idiots. We’ve done a lot of background work into him so any reply you have will get shot down and quick. I don’t know all the bullshit club names that he has but if memory serves me right some of them include:
    Millionaire Club
    Inner Circle
    Gold Plays
    Platnum Plays
    Billionaire Club
    No Limit Plays
    Source Plays
    Should I continue ?

  35. Thomas L. Knapp Says:

    Scott,

    You write:

    “Before you go off claiming that Wayne is a “scamdicapper”, check out this link, and, if you don’t believe it, Google the links in this article…”

    No problem.

    The article you link to is a press release from Root’s company, touting an award Root received, from an “independent rating service” that turns out to actually be a site which makes its money from charging members for access to picks (apparently including Root’s).

    I’m floored. A company promoting itself by touting an award received from one of its sales outlets? Now that’s major. I bet no other company ever thought of doing that.

    Next?

  36. Ha Chew Says:

    Tom is correct, politics is a dirty game and an all out war. The LP Candidate might have to face the other Party Candidates in debates, etc. The problem apparently is this. According to what I’ve read, seen and heard Wayne Allyn Roots has beaten all of the other LP Candidates everytime they have faced each other. The question is “If you can’t beat Wayne in a debate, how are youing going to win against the “Big Boys”?

  37. Thomas L. Knapp Says:

    Ha Chew,

    You make an interesting point—but in my opinion, not a valid one.

    Wayne Root has never beat the other candidates “in a debate,” because Root has never been in a debate with the other candidates. The other candidates debate; Root stands on the same stage and self-promotes.

    That’s a strength in LP debates. Unfortunately, “screw what we’re supposed to stand for or my actual qualifications—I’ve got A STAR ON LAS VEGAS BOULEVARD, goddammit!” seems to work in the LP to a large extent.

    In debates with other parties, it will be a weakness, for the simple reason that Root can’t self-promote himself better than John McCain and Barack Obama can. Nor can any of the other LP candidates. However, several of the other LP candidates could at least take our actual ideas, rather than a “look how pretty I am, gimme some love” infomercial monologue, into a debate if called upon to do so.

  38. Jared Says:

    I hope this Root run for the LP nomination is a joke and part of some great reality show he created no one has ever heard of.

  39. paulie Says:

    I have not seen Steve Kubby comment at all on any discussion, public or private, about Tom Knapp’s article on Wayne Root, before or after the fact.

  40. Wes Benedict Says:

    It’s gambling. Of course the house always wins.

  41. My Two Cents Says:

    “Wayne Allyn Root just publicly admitted—actually, proclaimed—that he raided his own company, left it an empty shell, pocketed the money and probably (and he could care less) left his creditors (and any stockholders) screwed.” – Tom Knapp

    Sounds sort of like George W. Bush and Harken Energy, or any number of Dubya’s other failed businesses. The President always made money, but his investors generally lost their shirts. Incidentally, if Wayne Allyn Root was such an honest sports handicapper, why didn’t he ever have his selections monitored by a reputable sports monitoring service, such as Jack Stewart’s Las Vegas-based SportsWatch? The typical boiler-room operation always avoided Stewart and the handful of other ethical sports monitors like the plague…

    Tom is just trying to keep the LP from totally embarrassing itself with this fast-talking, Johnny-come-lately to the Libertarian Party. The LP can do so much better.

  42. paulie Says:

    Whether there is any truth to them or not, Tom’s article – at least so far – seems to be helping Wayne and hurting Steve.

    I’m open to being proven wrong.

    TLK, so far it looks like you should have ignored that “hot tip”.

  43. BillTx Says:

    If a guy as sketchy as Root is going to be the LP nominee, I’m glad
    I’m not a Libertarian. And he better learn how to better deal with
    attacks if he thinks he’s going to get anywhere in politics!

  44. Thomas L. Knapp Says:

    Paulie,

    First of all, there was no “hot tip.” All of the information I used was (and is) publicly available to anyone who can use Google.

    Secondly, I’ve seen no evidence that my article (or Root’s reply) is “hurting Steve,” or that it’s “helping Wayne.”

    Thirdly, Root’s panicked response probably hurts him more than my initial attack does. I’m a minor figure in a minor party on a minor web site—and he goes to general battle stations and starts shooting at shadows when I rattle his cage. If Root can’t maintain his composure when the peanut gallery throws a few stray shots his way, how quickly will he fall apart when the situation gets serious?

    Wayne did something for me that I couldn’t do by myself—he exposed the problem with his “media magnet” claim. Yes, he does fairly well with friendly media, such as interviews with networks that he’s bought infomercial time from … but you can’t run a presidential campaign on friendly media alone, and Fox won’t stay bought if he starts to become a significant factor.

    Fourthly, you seem to think that my intent with this article was to “help Steve.” It wasn’t. If Steve had never entered the race, I’d still opppose nominating Root, even if the only alternative was NOTA. What’s at issue here is not whether Steve is better than Root, it’s whether Root gets over the bar at all. He doesn’t.

  45. Jim Says:

    These articles by Knapp, me and what will be many others will only destroy Root in the end. The guy has more skeleton’s than anyone I’ve ever seen run for office. The problem with America these days is you can run for office and get lot’s of votes without being a factor but be an out and out crook or a bigot. See Rev. Al Sharpton. Who can we expect to run for office next, Don King?

  46. Ha Chew Says:

    I thought Wayne debated the other LP Candidates at the Ca. Convention for two hours and the vote taken had Wayne winning almost two to one? I would have thought Steve had the advantage being his home court. Any how it is going to come down to the LP Convention and the debate the night before the voting. Will Wayne and Steve cancel each other out and George takes it, will Robert surprise everyone. Will Bob Barr jump in and “save” the day. Who ever will be able to have the most people attend the convention and who ever wins the debate will take it. Presently in my area the only candidate that is sparking an interest is Wayne.

  47. Jim Says:

    Wayne may win a debate. He’s as very good speaker. If he was ever scrutinized though which he will be if he wants to go forward he will eventually have to bow out of the race. Going after him will be like leading the lambs to slaughter.

  48. Hugh Jass Says:

    “Mr. Root, mere months before you declared your presidential candidacy, you endorsed a John McCain / Joe Lieberman presidential ticket. Do you withdraw that endorsement? What changed?

    Mr. Root, you originally supported the invasion of Iraq. Even after becoming a presidential candidate, you supported the occupation of Iraq. Later, you announced that Iraq had been the wrong war, and that what we really need is a fight with Iran. Now you’re talking about a generally non-interventionist policy. Um, what will it be next week? And the week after you are inaugurated? And the week after that?

    Mr. Root, up until you decided to seek the Libertarian Party’s presidential nomination, you were on record in favor of defining marriage as “one man, one woman.” Later, [see Iraq question above].

    Mr. Root, between your McCain/Lieberman endorsement and your statement in the Las Vegas Review-Journal that you would only run for president as a Libertarian if it wouldn’t hurt your chances to later run for US Senate as a Republican, I’m a bit confused. Exactly which party is it that you’re with?”

    If you’re going to do an attack piece on Root, Mr. Knapp, why didn’t you START with his political flaws, rather than just bringing them up after you face scrutiny? I would have found it much easier to buy into your argument if you had just talked about his support for interventionism, rather than bringing up stuff about Root’s gambling business. It would have been a lot harder for Root to defend himself had you just mentioned his political flip-flops on the forefront.

  49. ms Says:

    does anyone knoiw where you can find more information about the asset sales of root’s public company?

  50. Eric Dondero Says:

    All this hulla-balloo just indicates that Root is far and away the frontrunner in this race. Think about it. On any libertarian blogs or websites do you see any discussion about Steve Kubby, George Phillies, Christine Smith, Barry Hess? Very little if any at all. If it’s about the LP Presidential nomination, 9 times out of 10, Root’s name gets dropped.

    And I’m starting to see some mainline Republicans talk of his candidacy on hardcore GOP sites. Not seeing any of this for Kubby, or the others.

    The LP has a choice for 2008:

    An Ed Clark 1980 style Presidential campaign with millions of votes ala Wayne Root.

    Or, a standard no media campaign with about 350,000 to 400,000 votes ala Kubby or Phillies.

  51. Eric Dondero Says:

    Hey Tom Knapp, is Kubby scheduled to be on Glen Beck’s nationally syndicated radio show? Fox News maybe? ESPN?

    Did Kubby get invited to be on Michael Medved’s nationally syndicated show?

    This is all about media attention and who can get the most coverage and represent the libertarian movement the best.

    I’m sorry, I like your guy Kubby personally. I’ve found him to be quite the gentleman. But a look at that awful YouTube video he produced a few weeks ago of him in front of the White House, shows he is not Presidential campaign material, and would make the libertarian movement out to be a laughing stock. Keep him away from the cameras please.

    (Ironically, and I thought I’d never admit this, George Phillies comes across quite well on the camera. The videos he’s produced are quite professional, and make him appear even a bit Presidential, if not a bit too Professorial).

  52. Gene Berkman Says:

    The California LP Convention had a debate with 5 candidates – Wayne Root, Steve Kubby, George Phillies, Jim Burns and Jingozian. Wayne Root received 20 votes out of more than 60 – less than a third.

    Root’s victory reflected two things – Wayne Root had the most dynamic stage presence, and the other candidates all had problems. Phillies believes in global warming (as I do) but many libertarians think it is an Al Gore fantasy. Jingozian came out for “Fair Trade” and Jim Burns just did not have the energy to give a compelling presentation.

    Steve Kubby tied with Ron Paul for 2nd place in the straw poll, but he shared one characteristic with Wayne Root- both W.A.R. and Steve Kubby came off as too full of themselves – too convinced that they are so great, they don’t have to convince other people, just assert how great they are.

  53. Thomas L. Knapp Says:

    Ha Chew,

    You’re very observant.

    Right now it’s a muddle and anything could happen. This is the second LP nomination race in a row in which there is no clear frontrunner only a few months before the convention. Last time, the distant third place candidate in support coming into the convention ended up the nominee. There are important differences this time, but the parallels are obvious.

    One difference is that there’s a significant chance that we’ll see one or more new entrants into the presidential race in the next 2-4 weeks. Bob Barr, possibly. Mary Ruwart, possibly. Apart from their obvious assets, either one would also have the advantage of being the fresh new face versus a bunch of candidates who haven’t managed to set the party on fire over months and months of campaigning.

  54. Thomas L. Knapp Says:

    Hugh,

    You write:

    “If you’re going to do an attack piece on Root, Mr. Knapp, why didn’t you START with his political flaws”

    You seem to be under the misimpression that I’ll only be writing one attack piece on Root.

    You also seem to be under the misimpression that a shady business background isn’t a political flaw. Ask Rudy Giuliani how representing Hugo Chavez, appointing cronies to key graft centers as mayor of New York, enriching himself from sweetheart DHS contracts, etc., worked out for his presidential aspirations.

    I’ve discussed Root’s endorsement of McCain/Lieberman, among other political flaws, before—right here on TPW, in comments. The fact that I chose to lead off a more focused look at him with his business side doesn’t mean that I won’t be discussing those other problems as well.

    Best regards,
    Tom Knapp

  55. Andy Says:

    The bigger question about Wayne Root beyond whether or not his business is a scam is where exactly does Wayne Root stand on the issues.

    Supposedly he is now against the war in Iraq, but when I first heard about Wayne Root entering the race he was in favor of the war in Iraq. Is his coversion on this issue for real?

    When I first went to Wayne Root’s website there was a bunch of stuff on there where he was sucking up to and making excuses for Republican establishment types like Bush, Cheney, Condi Rice, etc… Has Wayne disavowed the Republican establishment? Does he still believe that mainstream Republicans are less toxic than mainstream Democrats (I consider them to be equally as bad)?

    Where does Wayne Root stand on US support for Israel? Is he still in favor of US government aid to Israel or has he converted to a true non-interventionist stance?

    Wayne is apparently a recent convert to libertarianism, but the questions remain of just how libertarian is he and just how much does he really know about the issues.

    I’ve watched some clips of Wayne Root on line and I’ll say that I do like his energetic speaking style, however, this alone is not grounds for him getting the Libertarian Party’s Presidential for 2008.

    If Wayne’s conversion is for real, perhaps he should stick around the and run for a lower level office, say for Congress or state legislature. Then maybe he could run for President in 2012 (assuming that his conversion is for real).

  56. paulie Says:

    Secondly, I’ve seen no evidence that my article (or Root’s reply) is “hurting Steve,” or that it’s “helping Wayne.”

    Read the comments above. I don’t see anyone saying “Well, I was going to suport Root, but then I read Tom Knapp call him a scamdicapper and changed my mind.” I see people saying they have now as a result donated to Root, saying things along the lines of “Root 1, Knapp 0” and so on.

    Anyone saying bad things about Wayne in this thread was already opposing him.

    “Fourthly, you seem to think that my intent with this article was to “help Steve.” It wasn’t.”

    Nope, I actually know better than to think that. Scorpion, turtle, etc. I was just making an initial empirical observation, one that is subject to change as new data comes in, without saying anything about your intent.

  57. disinter Says:

    Well thank the flying spaghetti monster we have Tom Knapp here to destroy the LP for us. Heaven knows the LP wouldn’t be able to project its irrelevance on its own.

  58. Andy Says:

    “Thomas L. Knapp Says:

    February 28th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
    Ha Chew,

    You’re very observant.

    Right now it’s a muddle and anything could happen. This is the second LP nomination race in a row in which there is no clear frontrunner only a few months before the convention. Last time, the distant third place candidate in support coming into the convention ended up the nominee. There are important differences this time, but the parallels are obvious.”

    One big difference between the race for the LP Presidential nomination in 2004 and the race for the LP Presidential nomination for 2008 is that the candidates were better in 2004.

    The same goes with 2000.

  59. Garth Marenghi Says:

    The Libertarian Party is a dark place.

  60. Donald Fagin Says:

    No marigolds in the promised land
    There’s a hole in the ground
    Where they used to grow
    Any man left on the Denver Stage
    Is the king of the world
    As far as I know

  61. Steve Kubby Says:

    Tom Knapp’s attack on Wayne Root was not done on behalf of, or even
    with the permission of, my campaign. He speaks only for himself. That
    said, I hope that others will put me under the same kind of microscope
    that Tom put Wayne Root under. We should rigorously investigate our
    candidates, because I promise you that our opponents will. We should
    challenge our candidates. We should expose our candidates’ weaknesses
    and find out if they can turn those weaknesses into strengths. This
    isn’t touch football, it’s real-world politics. Hit me.

  62. paulie Says:

    I thought Wayne debated the other LP Candidates at the Ca. Convention for two hours and the vote taken had Wayne winning almost two to one?

    31-21. The main problem is that Steve had the flu in both Vegas and SD.

    As a result, he was low energy in Vegas, and unprepared in SD. I was embarassed to see him reading his opening statement from a piece of paper and stumbling over several answers. We had absolutely no materials to give out, and IMO Steve did not spend nearly long enough meeting and greeting delegates before and after, but now I am coming down with something like that too. It’s just starting, but I’m already having a lot of problems with energy levels and concentration.

    Wayne did pretty well in CA. He said he has had a change of heart on foreign policy, but did not get into a lot of specifics. For example, a couple of weeks ago in Utah he told me and several other people he still supports US government foreign aid to Israel.

    In Vegas, he said he still supports the “war on terror” but now opposes the war in Iraq. He did not give a straightforward answer when asked to defend his use of the term “Islamo-fascism.” In California, nobody asked him specific foreign policy questions during the debate as far as I remember.

    I would have thought Steve had the advantage being his home court.

    State lines aside, I’m pretty sure Wayne’s home is closer to San Diego than Steve’s.


    Any how it is going to come down to the LP Convention and the debate the night before the voting. Will Wayne and Steve cancel each other out and George takes it,

    I’d be surprised. A (probably partial) list of folks George has ticked off

    Ron Paul supporters
    LPHQ
    LNC
    Browne/Bergland faction supporters from 2000
    Global warming skeptics
    9/11 truthers
    Defenders of southern secession
    Pro-life libertarians
    Open borders advocates
    Unrestricted free trade advocates
    Those who dislike the federal reserve

    All of these have fairly large, partially overlapping constituencies within the LP (by LP standards anyway).

    will Robert surprise everyone.

    If you mean Milnes, I see a higher likelihood that the LP will nominate McCain, Clinton or McKinney than Bob Milnes. Not that any of them have a chance.


    Will Bob Barr jump in and “save” the day.

    Maybe.

    Who ever will be able to have the most people attend the convention and who ever wins the debate will take it. Presently in my area the only candidate that is sparking an interest is Wayne.

    We’ll see if that changes.

  63. Eric Dondero Says:

    No Andy, the bigger question IS NOT how one Libertarian stands on the issues, versus another. That’s for Policay Wankers.

    The BIGGER QUESTION is which one of these guys can gain the most media attention for the libertarian movement, and can attract the greatest amoung of votes?

    Ask yourself this question. Be honest with yourselves.

    Which one of these guys has the best shot of winning over 1 million votes?

    Do any of you all here honestly believe Kubby or Phillies, nice guys as they are personally, has any shot at all of beating Clark’s record of 1980?

    Even “LP Sweetheart” Mary Ruwart?

    Only Bob Barr could do it. But doesn’t look like he’s going to run.

    So, it’s Wayne Root. He’s got the best shot of getting the maximum number of votes for the LP in ‘08.

  64. Andy Says:

    “Eric Dondero Says:

    February 28th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
    No Andy, the bigger question IS NOT how one Libertarian stands on the issues, versus another. That’s for Policay Wankers.

    The BIGGER QUESTION is which one of these guys can gain the most media attention for the libertarian movement, and can attract the greatest amoung of votes?

    Ask yourself this question. Be honest with yourselves.

    Which one of these guys has the best shot of winning over 1 million votes?”

    RON PAUL! None of the candidates seeking the LP nomination could even come close to the number of votes that Ron Paul could get if he were the nominee.

  65. Andy Says:

    “I’d be surprised. A (probably partial) list of folks George has ticked off

    Ron Paul supporters
    LPHQ
    LNC
    Browne/Bergland faction supporters from 2000
    Global warming skeptics
    9/11 truthers
    Defenders of southern secession
    Pro-life libertarians
    Open borders advocates
    Unrestricted free trade advocates
    Those who dislike the federal reserve”

    You forgot to mention those in the Tax Protestor/Honesty Movement and Driver’s License Protestors.

  66. Eric Dondero Says:

    Article now up at www.libertarianrepublican.blogspot.com on Kubby rebutting his own Campaign Communications Director Tom Knapp.

  67. Ha Chew Says:

    Paulie, hope you feel better. Being sick sucks, sadly in the “dog eat dog” world of politics you have to be prepared for debates, meet and greets etc. at all times. I liked Steves “South Park” type ad, and the text of his “State of the Union” address, sadly his delivery was very weak. When I do a goggle search for Steve, there seems to be a lot of stories about him and a lot of praise which is a plus, the minus is all the stories revolve around his health and legal problems. Hopefully in the next couple weeks he can catch some traction on other issues.

    George does seem to have some issues with a lot of the fractions inside the LP. It appears that he has done the most, trying to build a network of supporters in the States. Also I’m seeing a big improvement on his delievery in some of the interviews.

    I see Robert posting a lot here, but I haven’t seen him anywhere else.

    I’m not convinced that 2004 Candidates are better than 2008. I think the big difference this year is so many people have been involved in the Republican Party trying to help Dr. Paul that it has taken the wind out of the sails of the LP and with his move to stay in the race until the very end might not bode well for the LP.

  68. Joe Says:

    Come on, Thomas. What about the other accepted meanings of vicious:

    4 a: dangerously aggressive : savage b: marked by violence or ferocity : fierce 5: malicious, spiteful

  69. disinter Says:

    I’m not convinced that 2004 Candidates are better than 2008. I think the big difference this year is so many people have been involved in the Republican Party trying to help Dr. Paul that it has taken the wind out of the sails of the LP and with his move to stay in the race until the very end might not bode well for the LP.

    Yea, cuz the LP would actually win by a landslide if it weren’t for the fact that Ron Paul is in the race. Duh.

  70. Eric Dondero Says:

    Here’s a novel idea: Wayne Root and Steve Kubby team up as Prez & VP candidates, and at the same time dump Tom Knapp.

  71. disinter Says:

    Here’s a novel idea: Wayne Root and Steve Kubby team up as Prez & VP candidates, and at the same time dump Tom Knapp.

    Knapp guarantees their failure, which is goal – obviously.

  72. Brian Miller Says:

    None of the LP presidential campaigns—NONE of them, including Kubby’s and including Root’s—have raised or spent significant money

    Another inaccurate claim by Tom Knapp. George Phillies and Michael Jingozian have both raised large sums of money. Phillies has committed to a minimum campaign expenditure of $100,000 from his own pocket, and Jingozian has raised significant amounts of money from LP supporters—I hear the number is over $100,000.

    Both numbers are more significant than most other Libertarian Party campaigns at the moment—certainly more than the campaign that Knapp is supporting.

    That’s not to say that Mr. Kubby is a bad choice, but it’s rather foolish for the campaign director of the Kubby campaign to be sowing this sort of discord in the Libertarian Party and then muddying the waters with inaccuracies about the campaign resources of his putative rivals. Such smears tar the Kubby campaign by association.

  73. disinter Says:

    Oh lord, the Outright Libertarian nazis have arrived.

  74. Eric Dondero Says:

    This is scary… I’m starting to agree with Disinter. What’s this world coming too?

  75. Wes Benedict Says:

    I actually think it’s good to vet these candidates rigorously. I support Knapp’s attack tactics. It caused Root to speak out on some issues people have asked about before. I also think Root did fairly well responding.

    Gambling is entertainment, like professional sports. Both are rigged for the suppliers to make a profit.

    On an airport parking shuttle after the Las Vegas meeting, I mentioned to a guy that I didn’t get around to gambling in Vegas this time, but didn’t mind, because I’ve taken too many statistics classes and realize it’s a waste of money.

    The guy’s wife said, “he’s a math professor and he gambles.” The guy said, “yeah, it’s fun.”

    I said “yeah, you’re right.”

    I’ve gambled before, and I’ll do it again, because it’s stupid, and fun!

    However, I can proudly say that I’ve never bought a Texas Lottery ticket. I’d much rather my gambling losses go to a casino operator or “scamdicapper” than the Texas government.

  76. Andy Says:

    “Another inaccurate claim by Tom Knapp. George Phillies and Michael Jingozian have both raised large sums of money. Phillies has committed to a minimum campaign expenditure of $100,000 from his own pocket, and Jingozian has raised significant amounts of money from LP supporters—I hear the number is over $100,000.”

    I remember George included lost income from taking time off from his job as a Physics Professor at Worcester Polytechnic Institute in with his campaign contributions.

    I find it hard to believe that Jingozian has raised any signifigant amount of money. I wouldn’t be suprised if he is including lost income from lost work time as contributions as George is.

    I doubt that any of the candidates for the LP nomination have raised anything close to $100,000, even if you combine what all of them have raised.

  77. disinter Says:

    This is scary… I’m starting to agree with Disinter. What’s this world coming too?

    Well it is about damn time you came to your senses and opposed the illegal Iraq invasion, occupation and mass slaughter of over 1 million innocent people.

    Or did you finally decide to personally go to Iraq to terrorize the “terrorists”?

  78. Andy Says:

    “However, I can proudly say that I’ve never bought a Texas Lottery ticket. I’d much rather my gambling losses go to a casino operator or ‘scamdicapper’ than the Texas government.”

    Since the government taxes gambling a cut of it will end up in the government coffers anyway.

  79. Wes Benedict Says:

    Andy says:
    “Since the government taxes gambling a cut of it will end up in the government coffers anyway.”

    Wes says:
    Yeah, I’m not happy about that, but I think the Texas gov’t takes a 50% cut of lottery ticket sales. That’s far more than any casino’s cut or the State of Nevada’s.

    And if you think the “scamdicappers” advertisements and practices are abusive, you should hear the Texas Lottery’s advertisements.

    Separately, I’m probably sounding more supportive of Root here than I actually am. My preferences for the LP nomination are (and I realize some of these won’t be candidates):

    1. Ron Paul
    2. Bob Barr
    3. Mary Ruwart
    4. Wayne Allyn Root
    5. Steve Kubby
    6. Mike Jingozian
    7. George Phillies
    8. Christine Smith

  80. Jose C. Says:

    Steve Kubby is being ill served by his campaign staff.

    1. The commercial he did (the South Park parody) was a mistake. The commercial made fun of a candidate whose campaign was collapsing. If he was going to make fun of someone it should have been McCain or Romney.

    2. The endorsement of Ron Paul was a mistake and a blunder. If Steve did not want to go after Ron Paul the way George Phillies did he did not have to. He could have said something such as, “I wish Ron Paul good luck in seeking the nomination of the Republican Party. I am running to seek the nomination for President of the Libertarian Party. This is why I should get the nomination . . .”

    Steve Kubby’s support of Ron Paul made it seemed he did not want the nomination. That has changed but the damage has been done.

    3. The presentation he did in front of the White House was poorly done. He did not look or sound like a credible Presidential candidate. His performance was weak.

    4. He has not run an active campaign. That is the perception. Some of his campaign staff have said Steve is running an active campaign, your perception is wrong. Unfortunately I am not the only one that has that perception. Why is that? Since that perception exists it is true.

    It seems George Phillies, Wayne Root, and to a lesser extent Christine Smith are running active campaigns. That also is perception. In this case the perception is the truth.

    5. In the debate at the convention in California I thought Steve Kubby did well. Except for one question that he fumbled he did well. It seems others perception of his performance is different than mine. The perception is that the debate did not bring out the best in Steve Kubby. There were a couple of times when he seemed lost. It has been mentioned he had the flu but think about the 1960 Presidential debate between Kennedy and Nixon. Those who heard the debate on radio thought Nixon had won. Those that saw the debate on television thought Kennedy had won. In this debate in the presentation Steve Kubby was Nixon.

    The perception people will have of Steve Kubby will in part be influenced by the debate. The same thing happened to Nixon. The perception people had of Nixon was in part influenced by his debate performance.

    6. That attacks against Wayne Root could be considered attacks being made because the campaign is in trouble. Now it is a good thing that Steve Kubby has distanced himself from the statements made but the dammage has been done. I do agree we should vet Wayne Root, George Phillies, and the other candidates. We do not want to happen what occurred four years ago when after Badnarik received the nomination we found out about some of his crazy views. That is the last thing we want to happen.

    In this case though the word “perception” shows up again. Why the attacks? Why Now?

    What this controversy shows me is that the contest is getting very interesting.

  81. Dave Williams Says:

    The WAR is on

  82. Dave Williams Says:

    Go Roooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot

  83. Andy Says:

    “2. The endorsement of Ron Paul was a mistake and a blunder. If Steve did not want to go after Ron Paul the way George Phillies did he did not have to. He could have said something such as, “I wish Ron Paul good luck in seeking the nomination of the Republican Party. I am running to seek the nomination for President of the Libertarian Party. This is why I should get the nomination . . .”

    Steve Kubby’s support of Ron Paul made it seemed he did not want the nomination. That has changed but the damage has been done.”

    I totally disagree. Steve Kubby endorsing Ron Paul made me respect Steve Kubby even more than I already did. It showed that he’s more interested in supporting the cause of liberty than he is in stroking his own ego. It also showed that he doesn’t have his head buried in the sand like some people.

  84. Steve Kubby Says:

    WAS IT WRONG TO ENDORSE RON PAUL?

    No, I don’t believe it was. I have serious disagreements on important
    issues with Dr. Paul, and I found some of the things that came out
    during his campaign very disturbing. But he’s been one of the most
    pro-freedom congressmen of the last century, he has a long association with the LP, and it was my impression that a majority of LP members supported his campaign in preference to my own. That’s what the bank statements for my campaign said, anyway.

    The question for me was: Do I put the freedom movement first, or do I put stand in the corner and pout? The answer was easy. I support our movement and our party—period. And I’ll do what I believe is best for our movement and our party, even if that means I may not get to march at the head of the parade. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong, but I’m not going to be wrong on account of personal ego.

  85. Eric Dondero Says:

    Jose, I agree on most of your points. Disagree on one.

    Firstly, you are dead on on points 1, 3, 4, 5 & 6. Not so sure about 2. I thought Kubby’s endorsement of Paul was actually quite brillant. Showed him to have a pragmatic political side to him. Note though, Knapp protested to his own boss on the matter. It was Kubby’s decision alone to do this.

    I’d add one other flubb for Kubby. The time he sent out the email blast to supporters begging for $10.00 contributions so he could buy some gas to get to the Oregon LP Convention.

    It was like announcing to the whole world: “I’m broke, and I’ll be running a severely underfunded campaign for President.”

    Compared to Root whose personal wealth is estimated to be about $10 to $20 million or George Phillies, whose wealth is between $1 to $2 million, and Jingozian, who by all accounts has a nice stash too, this was really, really weak.

    LPers need to ask themselves, if they want to choose the poor guy over the other three, who have decent personal incomes and may be persuaded to use some of that money to fund their own campaigns.

    Certainly you won’t be seeing Root, Jingo or Phillies, sending out emails asking for $10 contributions to “cover gas money dude” to get to Oregon.

  86. Eric Dondero Says:

    Steve, you were right to endorse Ron Paul. Not because he’s a swell guy; He’s not. But because it showed you have a good understanding of real world politics. And with the endorsement you acknowledged that indeed the Republican Party is the second home for Libertarians. That the LP is in many ways an extension of the GOP, much the same as the Conservative Party of New York State is to the Republicans of NY.

    There should be much, much more of this; Cross endorsements of the LP by the GOP, by the GOP to the LP, and such.

  87. Thomas L. Knapp Says:

    Quoth Eric Dondero:

    “I thought Kubby’s endorsement of Paul was actually quite brillant. Showed him to have a pragmatic political side to him. Note though, Knapp protested to his own boss on the matter.”

    Knapp did no such thing.

    Regards,
    Knapp

  88. Eric Dondero Says:

    Knapp most surely did. I remember the communications you had with me back then, telling me how you thought it was an awful idea.

    Stop spinning Tom. It’s making your head get terribly out of whack.

  89. Thomas L. Knapp Says:

    Eric,

    You’re full of shit. I did not protest to Kubby about his endorsement of Paul. Ever. Period. As a matter of fact, when he took up the matter with his advisors, I specifically and emphatically recused myself / abstained from that discussion entirely, as Kubby already knew my opinion of Paul. I have publicly mentioned this several times. I have also publicly defended Kubby’s decision to endorse Paul as an understandable move, even though I didn’t happen to like it.

    Correspondence between you and me as to whether or not Kubby’s endorsement of Paul was or was not a good idea would not constitute me protesting to Kubby even if it existed—which, to the best of my recollection, it doesn’t.

  90. Carl Says:

    Wow, quite a firestorm!

    Looks like Mr. Root has what Heinlein called candidatitis. Note to politicos: don’t run someone for president who hasn’t done his dues door-knocking.

    Tom Knapp asked some legitimate questions. Buried in the piece above is an almost convincing rebuttal. But the ranting preface is most unpresidential!

    Then again, the parts about the shell corporation being thrown into bankruptcy strikes me as incredibly sleazy! Emptying a corporation for personal gain and then declaring bankruptcy is theft.

  91. Susan Hogarth Says:

    Emptying a corporation for personal gain and then declaring bankruptcy is theft.

    Thank you, Carl. I am glad someone pointed that out.

  92. Thomas L. Knapp Says:

    Sorry I’ve been getting behind on the line by line, folks. I like to do my research.

    The next point I’m going to address is the Better Business Bureau record of Winning Edge, a/k/a GWIN, a/k/a W. Technologies. Wayne Root writes:

    Out of those millions of callers Mr. Knapp points out that I’ve had 14 complaints in 9 years. I accept that record as PHENOMENAL. I’m sure icons of American business like Merrill Lynch, Charles Schwab, AT&T, Mercedes Benz, Comcast Cable and Microsoft get more complaints every day of the year than I have had in 22 years. My sterling record is a testament to my attention to detail and world-class customer service. No one with over two million clients can make everyone happy. But I’d say 14 complaints out of millions of callers and clients is about as close to perfection as any businessman can get.

    There are a couple of errors worth pointing out before moving on to a comparison. The first is that we aren’t talking about 14 complaints over 9 years. The second is that we aren’t talking about 14 complaints over “millions” of callers. The Better Business Bureau record on GWIN covers 36 months, which according to Root’s numbers would be about 300,000 callers.

    In making comparisons, I want to make relevant comparisons, and I want to be fair, so I’ll do three.

    The first comparison will be to a company which is larger than Root’s, and which conducts its business over the same medium (infomercial linked to a telemarketing service). I decided to go for the big kahuna of infomercial telemarketing companies: Ronco. If you’ve ever seen an infomercial, there’s a big chance that it was a Ronco commercial. They’re the guys who sell the handy-dandy kitchen devices of all sorts for making omelets, juicing fruits, whatever. The usual host is Ron Popeil. How much bigger is Ronco than Root’s company? Well, Ron Popeil sold it in 2005 for $55 million. It does huge business and sells products which seem to most to be a little bit … fly by night … so I expected to see a lot of complaints.

    The envelope, please? The BBB has processed no customer complaints on this company in its three-year reporting period.

    For my second comparison, I decided to go with a large company, and one that Root himself names as betting (remember, he’s a gambling man) get “more complaints every day of the year than I have in 22 years [sic].”

    Result:

    “The BBB processed a total of 2224 complaints about this company in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period. Of the total of 2224 complaints closed in 36 months, 479 were closed in the last year.”

    That comes to about two complaints per day over three years. If it was spread over 14 years as Root tried to pull with his own complaints, it would come to less than half a complaint a day, or 1/28th the number of complaints that Root would “bet.”

    65% percent of Root’s complaints remain open. 0% percent of Microsoft’s remain open.

    Some of Root’s complaints involved “deceptive sales practices,” “unauthorized credit card charges,” and “unauthorized bank debits.” None of Microsoft’s complaints allude to those particular behaviors.

    For my third comparison, I punched the names of handicapping services and various handicapping buzz words (handicapping being the product/service Root sells) into the BBB site until one actually came up on the first-page results. The lucky winner was something called Maddux Sports Picks. BBB report?

    “The BBB processed a total of 1 complaint about this company in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period.Of the total of 1 complaint closed in 36 months, 0 were closed in the last year.”

    Granted, the report was closed because the company couldn’t be located, but I wasn’t going to lie to you—it was the first company I found. I’m not cherry-picking. Since I considered the result unsatisfactorily informative, I decided to keep plugging and find some more. I finally narrowed my BBB search to Nevada, figuring that’s where most handicappers seem to headquarter (for good reason). And, finally, I found another: Jim Feist Sports. BBB report:

    “The Bureau processed a total of 5 complaints about this company in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period. Of the total (5) in 36 months, (2) was/were closed in the last year.”

    I’ve reached the link limit for comments, so I’m going to continue this with a second comment.

  93. Thomas L. Knapp Says:

    Continued from previous comment:

    The name “Jim Feist” rang a bell with me. Before actually searching the BBB site, I had tried a shortcut: I had Googled the terms “sports handicapping” and “Better Business Bureau,” and had arrived at a site called Handicapping Reviews.” Turns out that this site “views itself as the Better Business Bureau of the sports handicapping picks industry.”

    Handicapping Reviews classes handicappers into three groups: Approved, non-approved, and black listed. From the site:

    * Approved Handicappers are verified by Handicapping Police.

    • Non-Approved Handicappers are not verified and have not agreed to follow HP’s business ethics. Some have simply not responded, or do not wish to be listed currently. They are not bad just because of this however.
    • Avoid Black Listed Handicappers.
  94. The site lists 45 “approved” handicappers, 80 “Non-Approved” handicappers, and two “Black Listed” handicappers.

    The two “black listed” handicappers? Jim Feist and Wayne Root.

  95. Thomas L. Knapp Says:

    Sorry about forgetting to close the tag in that last comment. Its predecessor comment is hung up in moderation because it has four links, so please be aware that until it is posted, you are seeing only the end, and not the first 80%, of a long critique.

  96. disinter Says:

    OMG Wayne Root is involved with gambling

    Run for your lives

  97. Thomas L. Knapp Says:

    Mike,

    As noted, I have a comment in moderation that goes into far more than gambling vis a vis Root’s business.

    That said, yes, Root is involved with gambling—and on the site mentioned in the tail-end comment, he’s one of two handicappers, out of 127, who are rated as untrustworthy.

  98. disinter Says:

    Knapp – you reek of desperation.

  99. paulie Says:

    “You forgot to mention those in the Tax Protestor/Honesty Movement and Driver’s License Protestors.”

    As I said, probably partial.

    I also forgot Eric and his “Libertarian Defense Caucus” acolytes.

  100. Brian Miller Says:

    the Outright Libertarian nazis have arrived.

    As opposed to your Cult Leader, who believes that freedom includes “state governments regulating sex according to local standards.”

    Viva a future of libertarian sex police!

  101. Thomas L. Knapp Says:

    Oh, and a disclaimer on the gambling thing: I’m involved with gambling, too. I’ve written docs for online casinos, and an e-book on roulette[1]. So if anyone thinks I’m taking the piss out of Wayne because he’s involved with gambling, they’re wrong.

    Regards,
    Tom Knapp

    1. The e-book—Roulette for the Leisure Gambler—has sold a few hundred copies with precisely one complaint (someone couldn’t read the PDF —I sent them an MS Word version and subsequently made it available in both formats). It doesn’t make questionable claims about my record at the table, nor does it sell itself as a “winning system” (there is no “winning system” for roulette as normally played). Nobody’s ever accused me of fraudulently billing their credit card for it. And I’ve never claimed to be a “mogul” from the small revenues it has produced.

  102. Brian Miller Says:

    I remember George included lost income from taking time off from his job as a Physics Professor at Worcester Polytechnic Institute in with his campaign contributions.

    That’s incorrect. George’s campaign commitments are sums reportable to the FEC. One can only report hard currency and services donated directly to a campaign, not “lost income” or other such creative accounting.

  103. Thomas L. Knapp Says:

    Mike,

    “Reek of desperation,” huh? I’m not the one who started screaming like a little girl when the cage got rattled.

  104. Thomas L. Knapp Says:

    Actually, George could presumably report his time as an “in-kind donation” at the rate he makes for his other work … but I don’t think he’s done so.

    George has stated his willingness to put up to $100k of his own money into his pre-nomination campaign, and I have no problem believing that that willingness is genuine.

    None of which is either here or there, though, since the whole thing is about whether or not the LP’s candidates have put “significant money” into their campaigns, as I’ve claimed they haven’t. The Ds and Rs are raising and spending tens of millions on their pre-nomination campaigns. All of the LP candidates put together have yet to raise/spend one million (I’m pretty sure that’s true even counting Imperato’s “loans” to his campaign, etc.). In realpolitik terms and with respect to finance, the LP’s pre-nomination presidential candidacies are all completely insignificant.

  105. paulie Says:

    Steve Kubby is being ill served by his campaign staff.

    1. The commercial he did (the South Park parody) was a mistake. The commercial made fun of a candidate whose campaign was collapsing. If he was going to make fun of someone it should have been McCain or Romney.

    It took months to make the commercial. There was no way to adjust it for every change in the NSGOP pecking order. I thought it was well done, but my advice (ignored, as usual) was not to put all our eggs into the one basket of the commercial. When that did not take off as we had hoped, the campaign was reeling for a while, giving credence to the false rumors that Steve suspended his campaign following the Ron Paul endorsement.


    2. The endorsement of Ron Paul was a mistake and a blunder. If Steve did not want to go after Ron Paul the way George Phillies did he did not have to. He could have said something such as, “I wish Ron Paul good luck in seeking the nomination of the Republican Party. I am running to seek the nomination for President of the Libertarian Party. This is why I should get the nomination . . .”

    Steve Kubby’s support of Ron Paul made it seemed he did not want the nomination. That has changed but the damage has been done.

    I don’t agree.


    3. The presentation he did in front of the White House was poorly done. He did not look or sound like a credible Presidential candidate. His performance was weak.

    The first cut of the video was weak. It was Steve’s first time working with a teleprompter. There has been a new version since then. I haven’t been on a computer with sound since then to see it for myself, but I have been told it is a lot better.


    4. He has not run an active campaign. That is the perception. Some of his campaign staff have said Steve is running an active campaign, your perception is wrong. Unfortunately I am not the only one that has that perception. Why is that? Since that perception exists it is true.

    It seems George Phillies, Wayne Root, and to a lesser extent Christine Smith are running active campaigns. That also is perception. In this case the perception is the truth.

    Christine Smith is running a more active campaign than Steve? Please explain by what criteria you arrive at that conclusion.


    5. In the debate at the convention in California I thought Steve Kubby did well. Except for one question that he fumbled he did well. It seems others perception of his performance is different than mine. The perception is that the debate did not bring out the best in Steve Kubby. There were a couple of times when he seemed lost. It has been mentioned he had the flu but think about the 1960 Presidential debate between Kennedy and Nixon. Those who heard the debate on radio thought Nixon had won. Those that saw the debate on television thought Kennedy had won. In this debate in the presentation Steve Kubby was Nixon.

    The perception people will have of Steve Kubby will in part be influenced by the debate. The same thing happened to Nixon. The perception people had of Nixon was in part influenced by his debate performance.

    We’ll see how he does in other debates. The one in Denver will count more than all the rest put together.


    6. That attacks against Wayne Root could be considered attacks being made because the campaign is in trouble. Now it is a good thing that Steve Kubby has distanced himself from the statements made but the dammage has been done. I do agree we should vet Wayne Root, George Phillies, and the other candidates. We do not want to happen what occurred four years ago when after Badnarik received the nomination we found out about some of his crazy views. That is the last thing we want to happen.

    In this case though the word “perception” shows up again. Why the attacks? Why Now?

    What this controversy shows me is that the contest is getting very interesting.

    The attacks are a solo effort by Tom Knapp, not at the direction of the campaign. Tom has attacked other candidates, including Ron Paul. It’s what he does, and is separate from what he does with the campaign. By the way, Richard Cowan is the campaign manager and Tom Knapp is the communications director.

  106. paulie Says:


    Paulie, hope you feel better. Being sick sucks,

    Thanks, I’ll see what I can do :-)

  107. Brian Miller Says:

    George could presumably report his time as an “in-kind donation” at the rate he makes for his other work

    Candidates cannot consider their own time as an “in-kind donation.” Only third parties may.

  108. paulie Says:


    Do any of you all here honestly believe Kubby or Phillies, nice guys as they are personally, has any shot at all of beating Clark’s record of 1980?

    Even “LP Sweetheart” Mary Ruwart?

    Yes, I think any of them can beat Clark’s total (not that they, or Root, necessarily will).

    Kubby or Ruwart could do it without any compromise of libertarian principles, and would – for the first time – begin the process of reaching out to the huge, untapped and vital left/libertarian border.

    That’s where the plurality of college-age people – the one segment of the electorate least likely to have formed a firm attachment to a political party – scores. It’s also where a lot of people key to shaping opinion and creating effective outreach – musicians, artists, journalists, professors, film