Comments on: Can Raimondo “come out” for Bob Barr? http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/ Sun, 07 Sep 2008 16:54:02 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1.3 by: Robert Milnes http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-532443 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:45:44 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-532443 I, for one, would appreciate a response from Justin Raimondo to previous question. I, for one, would appreciate a response from Justin Raimondo to previous question.

]]> by: Robert Milnes http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-532394 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:01:19 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-532394 Tom, as for Missouri et al, it is not necessary for the other side to endorse and/or support each other. It should be good enogh that the party endorses ONE candidate as that party's "official" candidate thus hopefully thwarting interlopers from getting much support. Silence towards the other should be sufficient. Sure, SUPPORT for the other in exchange for corresponding support elsewhere would be great-ideal even. But if LP bylaws forbid that-oh well. Tom, as for Missouri et al, it is not necessary for the other side to endorse and/or support each other. It should be good enogh that the party endorses ONE candidate as that party’s “official” candidate thus hopefully thwarting interlopers from getting much support. Silence towards the other should be sufficient. Sure, SUPPORT for the other in exchange for corresponding support elsewhere would be great-ideal even. But if LP bylaws forbid that-oh well.

]]> by: Robert Milnes http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-532381 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:48:30 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-532381 Tom, I think YOU may be too optimistic. Just what party do you see replacing/displacing the republican as second in a then three-party (dominated)system? Tom, I think YOU may be too optimistic. Just what party do you see replacing/displacing the republican as second in a then three-party (dominated)system?

]]> by: Thomas L. Knapp http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-532221 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 11:12:59 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-532221 Phil, I think you may be too optimistic. The GOP has probably seen its last congressional majority, but unless something changes it will probably not slide into third place in a two-party system until 2016 or 2020. Phil,

I think you may be too optimistic. The GOP has probably seen its last congressional majority, but unless something changes it will probably not slide into third place in a two-party system until 2016 or 2020.

]]> by: Phil Sawyer http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-531854 Sun, 09 Mar 2008 21:45:02 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-531854 “The system is in crisis,” Raimondo wrote. “We simply can’t afford to police the world, and we’re going bankrupt in the attempt. At the present rate of deterioration, the economic foundations of American imperialism are approaching collapse – and we’re looking at a very short time-frame, as such things go.” The first part of bourgeois monopoly-capitalistic imperialism to go (if the Revolution does not begin before) will be the Republican Party. For the past few years, I have been writing that the GOP will be a minor-sized party by the year 2012. I think that things are right on schedule! “The system is in crisis,” Raimondo wrote. “We simply can’t afford to police the world, and we’re going bankrupt in the attempt. At the present rate of deterioration, the economic foundations of American imperialism are approaching collapse – and we’re looking at a very short time-frame, as such things go.”

The first part of bourgeois monopoly-capitalistic imperialism to go (if the Revolution does not begin before) will be the Republican Party. For the past few years, I have been writing that the GOP will be a minor-sized party by the year 2012. I think that things are right on schedule!

]]> by: Andy http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-531824 Sun, 09 Mar 2008 20:32:14 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-531824 "Until we get rid of Rock music and Hip Hop videos, flatten Hollywood, outlaw all marijuana and ban alcohol from our society, force our women to at least cover their heads in public, massively exterminate all our pet dogs and cats, and start censoring our newspapers, tv, radio and internet to ensure that nothing gets printed negative about Muhammed and the Islamic religion, they will never be happy." It sounds like the "Islamo-fascists" have a lot in common with a lot of people in the Republican Party. “Until we get rid of Rock music and Hip Hop videos, flatten Hollywood, outlaw all marijuana and ban alcohol from our society, force our women to at least cover their heads in public, massively exterminate all our pet dogs and cats, and start censoring our newspapers, tv, radio and internet to ensure that nothing gets printed negative about Muhammed and the Islamic religion, they will never be happy.”

It sounds like the “Islamo-fascists” have a lot in common with a lot of people in the Republican Party.

]]> by: Eric Dondero http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-531767 Sun, 09 Mar 2008 18:41:03 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-531767 Robert, no, I don't think the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has a great affect on Al Qaeda. Radical Islamists hate us for our culture; our support for Israel and our foreign policy are of secondary importance to them, if at all. Until we get rid of Rock music and Hip Hop videos, flatten Hollywood, outlaw all marijuana and ban alcohol from our society, force our women to at least cover their heads in public, massively exterminate all our pet dogs and cats, and start censoring our newspapers, tv, radio and internet to ensure that nothing gets printed negative about Muhammed and the Islamic religion, they will never be happy. Robert, no, I don’t think the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has a great affect on Al Qaeda.

Radical Islamists hate us for our culture; our support for Israel and our foreign policy are of secondary importance to them, if at all.

Until we get rid of Rock music and Hip Hop videos, flatten Hollywood, outlaw all marijuana and ban alcohol from our society, force our women to at least cover their heads in public, massively exterminate all our pet dogs and cats, and start censoring our newspapers, tv, radio and internet to ensure that nothing gets printed negative about Muhammed and the Islamic religion, they will never be happy.

]]> by: Thomas L. Knapp http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-531711 Sun, 09 Mar 2008 16:43:45 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-531711 Bob, You write: "Tom, I’ll try point by point but you didn’t number them. As for the parties hard earned ballot access-it’s covered. We could concentrate on Oklahoma, the only one that isn’t covered but nooooooooo. LP & GP could proceed with ballot access but as long as one or the other has it, it’s covered. D.C. & one or two others could be added to the LP by the GP. As for Missouri-that’s the beauty of the Honor System. Setting up a friendly competition gets ALL ballots taken promptlyso as to deny as much of them as possible to the other. Once taken, however, both parties would be honor bound to not put another on the ballot & support or at least not contest it." I've tried and tried to explain this to you: Your "honor system" won't work ESPECIALLY in Missouri, because in Missouri the balloted parties have precisely zero control over whether or not anyone runs on their ticket. Basically you're denying the existence of people who want to run for office and don't care what their putative party thinks about it. "I do not know what you are referring to with your amend the LP bylaws item." The LP's bylaws forbid nominating the candidate of another party for president or vice-president. Those bylaws also forbid any state affiliate to endorse the candidate of another party. So, even if you could put together a ballot-split situation with another party, the LP would be forbidden to actually support is putative allies on the other side of that split. "As for the Cato study etc. OK. It is not guaranteed. However there certainly is enough data & hypothesis to at least TRY." At least try WHAT? There's no data at all that supports your contention. There's some data relating to policy/issues data, but that data is not supported by data showing any willingness to leave the two-party system for a third party, an alliance of third parties, etc. And the other data (Pew Foundation, for example) that DOES show desire for a "third party" is both unlinked to policy/issues and unsupported by action proving the data's soundness. As far as your campaign goes, you offer a number of reasons why people SHOULD like and support it. I happen to think that those reasons are silly, but that's neither here nor there: The fact is that no matter how much you rail about how people SHOULD like and support it, I don't know of anyone other than yourself who DOES like or support it. "Should" doesn't get the job done even if it is true. Bob,

You write:

“Tom, I’ll try point by point but you didn’t number them. As for the parties hard earned ballot access-it’s covered. We could concentrate on Oklahoma, the only one that isn’t covered but nooooooooo. LP & GP could proceed with ballot access but as long as one or the other has it, it’s covered. D.C. & one or two others could be added to the LP by the GP. As for Missouri-that’s the beauty of the Honor System. Setting up a friendly competition gets ALL ballots taken promptlyso as to deny as much of them as possible to the other. Once taken, however, both parties would be honor bound to not put another on the ballot & support or at least not contest it.”

I’ve tried and tried to explain this to you: Your “honor system” won’t work ESPECIALLY in Missouri, because in Missouri the balloted parties have precisely zero control over whether or not anyone runs on their ticket. Basically you’re denying the existence of people who want to run for office and don’t care what their putative party thinks about it.

“I do not know what you are referring to with your amend the LP bylaws item.”

The LP’s bylaws forbid nominating the candidate of another party for president or vice-president. Those bylaws also forbid any state affiliate to endorse the candidate of another party. So, even if you could put together a ballot-split situation with another party, the LP would be forbidden to actually support is putative allies on the other side of that split.

“As for the Cato study etc. OK. It is not guaranteed. However there certainly is enough data & hypothesis to at least TRY.”

At least try WHAT? There’s no data at all that supports your contention. There’s some data relating to policy/issues data, but that data is not supported by data showing any willingness to leave the two-party system for a third party, an alliance of third parties, etc. And the other data (Pew Foundation, for example) that DOES show desire for a “third party” is both unlinked to policy/issues and unsupported by action proving the data’s soundness.

As far as your campaign goes, you offer a number of reasons why people SHOULD like and support it. I happen to think that those reasons are silly, but that’s neither here nor there: The fact is that no matter how much you rail about how people SHOULD like and support it, I don’t know of anyone other than yourself who DOES like or support it. “Should” doesn’t get the job done even if it is true.

]]> by: Robert Milnes http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-531662 Sun, 09 Mar 2008 15:00:16 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-531662 Justin Raimondo, I submit that My proposal to end the war in Iraq is FAR AND AWAY the best of ANY candidate AND I have a strategy to win the White House AND Congress. Further, then to appoint progressive judges. What say you to THAT? Justin Raimondo, I submit that My proposal to end the war in Iraq is FAR AND AWAY the best of ANY candidate AND I have a strategy to win the White House AND Congress. Further, then to appoint progressive judges. What say you to THAT?

]]> by: Robert Milnes http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-531652 Sun, 09 Mar 2008 14:48:11 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-531652 Clarification: For the record: I am NOT a conservative-paleo-libertarian AND I do NOT have a man-crush on Obama. Clarification: For the record: I am NOT a conservative-paleo-libertarian AND I do NOT have a man-crush on Obama.

]]> by: Robert Milnes http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-531647 Sun, 09 Mar 2008 14:31:24 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-531647 Just for the record: I am NOT a conservative-paleo-libertarian with a man-crush on Obama. Just for the record: I am NOT a conservative-paleo-libertarian with a man-crush on Obama.

]]> by: Robert Milnes http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-531528 Sun, 09 Mar 2008 11:26:53 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-531528 In all fairness, we are all awaiting Steve to further clarify &/or Bob Barr. In all fairness, we are all awaiting Steve to further clarify &/or Bob Barr.

]]> by: Robert Milnes http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-531515 Sun, 09 Mar 2008 11:10:41 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-531515 Ron Paul/Bob Barr/LP = CPAC/paleo/losertarians. Ron Paul/Bob Barr/LP = CPAC/paleo/losertarians.

]]> by: Robert Milnes http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-531508 Sun, 09 Mar 2008 10:58:04 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-531508 Tom, I'll try point by point but you didn't number them. As for the parties hard earned ballot access-it's covered. We could concentrate on Oklahoma, the only one that isn't covered but nooooooooo. LP & GP could proceed with ballot access but as long as one or the other has it, it's covered. D.C. & one or two others could be added to the LP by the GP. As for Missouri-that's the beauty of the Honor System. Setting up a friendly competition gets ALL ballots taken -promptly-so as to deny as much of them as possible to the other. Once taken, however, both parties would be honor bound to not put another on the ballot & support or at least not contest it. I do not know what you are referring to with your amend the LP bylaws item. As for the Cato study etc. OK. It is not guaranteed. However there certainly is enough data & hypothesis to at least TRY. & then your criticism of my campaign. REGARDLESS of MY campaign,it still could be tried. In other words, it is not a valid argument against the strategy that MY campaign is "odious...unworkable..." etc. That's MY take & I have that perogative. I disagree. I think my campaign is pretty right on. & you can't have it both ways with your criticism of my campaign. BOTH the libertarians & greens are negative about it AND most of the American people? Come on, it is not THAT bad. Quite the contrary. Most Americans want border security FIRST. I think when I explain my position to the greens & the libs for that matter that it has to do with making amends to native americans that they will concur. & my proposal for Iraq is by far THE BEST. It is close to Biden's which was the best of the dems & reps. & my position on abortion is close to Giuliani's, which was the best of the dems & reps. No overturn of R v W & do everything to make abortion less a need. Prevention of unwanted pregnancies, options including but not ONLY abstinence, various reproductive programs etc. On most of the knee jerk lib positions I'm on board. Most leftist programs could be made acceptable to libs by making them voluntary etc. If I didn't have the Teddy Roosevelt progressive precedent to point to, maybe you could criticize. & maybe if you weren't stuck on Kubby you could objectively criticize MY campaign. But nooooooo...So, have fun with Bob Barr & the paleos. Tom, I’ll try point by point but you didn’t number them. As for the parties hard earned ballot access-it’s covered. We could concentrate on Oklahoma, the only one that isn’t covered but nooooooooo. LP & GP could proceed with ballot access but as long as one or the other has it, it’s covered. D.C. & one or two others could be added to the LP by the GP. As for Missouri-that’s the beauty of the Honor System. Setting up a friendly competition gets ALL ballots taken promptlyso as to deny as much of them as possible to the other. Once taken, however, both parties would be honor bound to not put another on the ballot & support or at least not contest it. I do not know what you are referring to with your amend the LP bylaws item. As for the Cato study etc. OK. It is not guaranteed. However there certainly is enough data & hypothesis to at least TRY. & then your criticism of my campaign. REGARDLESS of MY campaign,it still could be tried. In other words, it is not a valid argument against the strategy that MY campaign is “odious…unworkable…” etc. That’s MY take & I have that perogative. I disagree. I think my campaign is pretty right on. & you can’t have it both ways with your criticism of my campaign. BOTH the libertarians & greens are negative about it AND most of the American people? Come on, it is not THAT bad. Quite the contrary. Most Americans want border security FIRST. I think when I explain my position to the greens & the libs for that matter that it has to do with making amends to native americans that they will concur. & my proposal for Iraq is by far THE BEST. It is close to Biden’s which was the best of the dems & reps. & my position on abortion is close to Giuliani’s, which was the best of the dems & reps. No overturn of R v W & do everything to make abortion less a need. Prevention of unwanted pregnancies, options including but not ONLY abstinence, various reproductive programs etc. On most of the knee jerk lib positions I’m on board. Most leftist programs could be made acceptable to libs by making them voluntary etc. If I didn’t have the Teddy Roosevelt progressive precedent to point to, maybe you could criticize. & maybe if you weren’t stuck on Kubby you could objectively criticize MY campaign. But nooooooo…So, have fun with Bob Barr & the paleos.

]]> by: Robert Milnes http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-531490 Sun, 09 Mar 2008 10:29:09 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/07/can-raimondo-come-out-for-bob-barr/#comment-531490 Tom, oh yeah. Now I remember. You got it all messed up so I slogged ahead without you. Tom, oh yeah. Now I remember. You got it all messed up so I slogged ahead without you.

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