Comments on: Gravel the libertarian. Gravel the Libertarian? http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/ Tue, 07 Oct 2008 23:15:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1.3 by: Pete http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-550252 Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:48:44 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-550252 "I think I could raise a lot of money". THAT is why he joined the LP. They just don't get why Ron Paul is popular. Maybe it's because he has a strong ideology and he consistently acts on it. “I think I could raise a lot of money”.

THAT is why he joined the LP.

They just don’t get why Ron Paul is popular. Maybe it’s because he has a strong ideology and he consistently acts on it.

]]> by: spinnikerca http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-549381 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:22:10 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-549381 Womeone above says that Ron Paul at most would be able to get $1 mill to $2 mill for the general if he ran Libertarian? As someone who maxed out on his campaign and is donating to efforts that support his campaign (you do know what his 1600 meet up groups and 20,000 pledged precinct captains are up to?) I completely disagree. If Ron Paul said he needed a target fund amount to consider running, I can't imagine him not getting it. Funds slowed when he was reported to be dropping out. Repeatedly. And he still has over $5 mill on hand with (of course) zero debt. I hope he chooses to run. I know I'd be happy to max out again, as I legally could, at that point. Womeone above says that Ron Paul at most would be able to get $1 mill to $2 mill for the general if he ran Libertarian?

As someone who maxed out on his campaign and is donating to efforts that support his campaign (you do know what his 1600 meet up groups and 20,000 pledged precinct captains are up to?) I completely disagree.

If Ron Paul said he needed a target fund amount to consider running, I can’t imagine him not getting it.

Funds slowed when he was reported to be dropping out. Repeatedly. And he still has over $5 mill on hand with (of course) zero debt.

I hope he chooses to run. I know I’d be happy to max out again, as I legally could, at that point.

]]> by: Steve S. http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-549280 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:08:57 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-549280 Wow, I love all the talk about "purity" of Libertarianism here. The biggest problem that the LP has had over the last 30 years (and the main reason why they are still marginalized in the US political sphere) is that they are constantly arguing about who are the "real" Libertarians and who are the "fakes." The fact that Gravel squawks about how he is more "libertarian" than Ron Paul is simply laughable. Gravel's jump to the LP (in my cynical view) looks to be a blatant play for RP's supporters and their money more than a move based on principle, especially since he shows statist tendencies in almost all of his economic positions (health care, environment, Social Security, minimum wage - the list goes on and on and on). Having said all of that, though, LPers need to get past the "purity test" and work together on the 90% of things they DO agree on to affect change. If they can't do this, they will continue to be marginalized. Wow, I love all the talk about “purity” of Libertarianism here. The biggest problem that the LP has had over the last 30 years (and the main reason why they are still marginalized in the US political sphere) is that they are constantly arguing about who are the “real” Libertarians and who are the “fakes.”

The fact that Gravel squawks about how he is more “libertarian” than Ron Paul is simply laughable. Gravel’s jump to the LP (in my cynical view) looks to be a blatant play for RP’s supporters and their money more than a move based on principle, especially since he shows statist tendencies in almost all of his economic positions (health care, environment, Social Security, minimum wage – the list goes on and on and on).

Having said all of that, though, LPers need to get past the “purity test” and work together on the 90% of things they DO agree on to affect change. If they can’t do this, they will continue to be marginalized.

]]> by: Libertarian Dave http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-548779 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 00:36:26 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-548779 Gravel does not fit into what I would call the libertarian mold and I consider Paul much more closely aligned with more than 95% of the content in the LP issues page: http://www.lp.org/issues/issues.shtml That said, if Ron Paul was not running (and I will be voting for him as I am a delegate for him from my precinct) I would definitely vote for Gravel over the lying sacks of socialist manure that are Hillary, Obama, and McCain. Gravel does not fit into what I would call the libertarian mold and I consider Paul much more closely aligned with more than 95% of the content in the LP issues page:
http://www.lp.org/issues/issues.shtml

That said, if Ron Paul was not running (and I will be voting for him as I am a delegate for him from my precinct) I would definitely vote for Gravel over the lying sacks of socialist manure that are Hillary, Obama, and McCain.

]]> by: Alex Peak http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-548604 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:02:57 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-548604 When it comes to Democrats, Gravel was the best in the race. If the Democratic Party had chosen him as its candidate, I would have held my nose and voted for the Democratic Party in 2008. As long, however, as Gravel supports government healthcare, social security, and minimum wage, <i>&#38;c.</i>, he is not a libertarian. That's not to say that he couldn't become one, of course. He's far more libertarian than Bush, either of the Clintons, Obama, McCain, Kerry, Edwards, Huckabee, <i>&#38;c.</i> Nevertheless, he's not as libertarian as Ron Paul (despite his leaning conservative in his personal affairs), and Ron Paul is not as libertarian as, say, Dr. Mary Ruwart. Had Ron Paul not been running, Mr. Gravel would have received much more money than he had. Had Dr. Paul started his run as a libertarian rather than as a Republican, Dr. Paul would not have raised as much money as he did. However, if Ron Paul had jumped the Republican ship back in February and began a bid for the Libertarian Party, the money he was gathering would have kept rolling in, albeit at a dimished rate. He would have raised no less than ten million USD for the general, I guestimate. Gravel has some sincere libertarian tendencies. It would greatly please me to see him give up his statist tendencies and pull a Barr, jumping ship from the Establishment parties and joining the Libertarian Party. When it comes to Democrats, Gravel was the best in the race. If the Democratic Party had chosen him as its candidate, I would have held my nose and voted for the Democratic Party in 2008.

As long, however, as Gravel supports government healthcare, social security, and minimum wage, &c., he is not a libertarian.

That’s not to say that he couldn’t become one, of course. He’s far more libertarian than Bush, either of the Clintons, Obama, McCain, Kerry, Edwards, Huckabee, &c.

Nevertheless, he’s not as libertarian as Ron Paul (despite his leaning conservative in his personal affairs), and Ron Paul is not as libertarian as, say, Dr. Mary Ruwart.

Had Ron Paul not been running, Mr. Gravel would have received much more money than he had. Had Dr. Paul started his run as a libertarian rather than as a Republican, Dr. Paul would not have raised as much money as he did. However, if Ron Paul had jumped the Republican ship back in February and began a bid for the Libertarian Party, the money he was gathering would have kept rolling in, albeit at a dimished rate. He would have raised no less than ten million USD for the general, I guestimate.

Gravel has some sincere libertarian tendencies. It would greatly please me to see him give up his statist tendencies and pull a Barr, jumping ship from the Establishment parties and joining the Libertarian Party.

]]> by: Hugh Jass http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-542525 Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:49:40 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-542525 Is this the same magazine that classified Bill Richardson, Barack Obama, Rudy Giuliani, and Larry Craig as libertarians? Is this the same magazine that classified Bill Richardson, Barack Obama, Rudy Giuliani, and Larry Craig as libertarians?

]]> by: Stefan http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-542261 Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:08:33 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-542261 One wonders what Gravel's question to Paul was: whether his personal views or those as president. Paul is tolerant on all freedoms, but for himself would not chose a few, like gambling for instance. Indeed, Paul is pretty much a libertarian. One wonders what Gravel’s question to Paul was: whether his personal views or those as president. Paul is tolerant on all freedoms, but for himself would not chose a few, like gambling for instance. Indeed, Paul is pretty much a libertarian.

]]> by: Brent Burk http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-541863 Thu, 20 Mar 2008 04:40:57 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-541863 Andy, I think he is saying if he did it before he was a GOP. Maybe. I dono. Anyways, Gravel, no. You are not a libertarian, not more libertarian than Paul. "I don't agree with that" doesn't mean "The government should enforce a law preventing that." He's probably against prostitution and drugs, but he wants to end the war on drugs and, well, I don't think there are any federal prostitution laws are there? He is pro-life, but I don't consider that a libertarian issue. Immigration? Well, his position is libertarian, meaning, he wouldn't be what you guys might call "antiimmigration" if we weren't living in a welfare state. Other than that, Paul would be considered pretty libertarian I'd say. And a conservative when it comes to the constitution. He's both a classical liberal and a traditional conservative. Oh, labels are always confusing aren't they? Andy,

I think he is saying if he did it before he was a GOP. Maybe. I dono.

Anyways, Gravel, no. You are not a libertarian, not more libertarian than Paul. “I don’t agree with that” doesn’t mean “The government should enforce a law preventing that.” He’s probably against prostitution and drugs, but he wants to end the war on drugs and, well, I don’t think there are any federal prostitution laws are there?

He is pro-life, but I don’t consider that a libertarian issue. Immigration? Well, his position is libertarian, meaning, he wouldn’t be what you guys might call “antiimmigration” if we weren’t living in a welfare state.

Other than that, Paul would be considered pretty libertarian I’d say. And a conservative when it comes to the constitution. He’s both a classical liberal and a traditional conservative. Oh, labels are always confusing aren’t they?

]]> by: Andy http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-541689 Thu, 20 Mar 2008 02:28:36 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-541689 "Had Paul ran as a Lib out of the gate, he would have raised $3-$8 million tops for the entire campaign. If he now decided to run as a Lib he would raise at most another $1-$2 million for the general." I think that if Ron Paul were to switch to running for the Libertarian Party Presidential nomination or if he switched to an independent run for President that he could raise a hell of a lot more than $1-2 million. “Had Paul ran as a Lib out of the gate, he would have raised $3-$8 million tops for the entire campaign. If he now decided to run as a Lib he would raise at most another $1-$2 million for the general.”

I think that if Ron Paul were to switch to running for the Libertarian Party Presidential nomination or if he switched to an independent run for President that he could raise a hell of a lot more than $1-2 million.

]]> by: Old Whig http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-541105 Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:42:25 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-541105 Cranky septuagenarian for president. I thought McCain had that role all wrapped up. O.W. Cranky septuagenarian for president. I thought McCain had that role all wrapped up.

O.W.

]]> by: Richie http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-541077 Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:58:35 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-541077 Gravel/Imperato 08 ;) No... Gravel/Imperato 08 ;)

No…

]]> by: Michael Seebeck http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-541065 Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:49:14 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-541065 Gravel for LP '08? ROFLMAO! OK, that joke cheered me up! Gravel for LP ‘08? ROFLMAO! OK, that joke cheered me up!

]]> by: BillTX http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-541042 Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:26:06 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-541042 I like Gravel too, but he's a wacko. He needs to go home. I like Gravel too, but he’s a wacko. He needs to go home.

]]> by: johncjackson http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-541030 Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:12:41 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-541030 Gravel is not a libertarian, but that does not diminish the fact that neither is Ron Paul on a few issues. Gravel is not a libertarian, but that does not diminish the fact that neither is Ron Paul on a few issues.

]]> by: Susan Hogarth http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-541006 Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:47:21 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/03/19/gravel-the-libertarian-gravel-the-libertarian/#comment-541006 ENM: <i>Great, now we’re going to have all kinds of mainstream politicians speaking in hushed tones about their libertarianism, trying to cross over just to get the Paul supporters’ money.</i> At the risk of ruining our budding pal-ship ;-) let me say I think it *is* 'great'. While there is some inevitable dilution of the term 'libertarian', right now it's good that it's seen as something people *want* to hear from politicians. It's the job of the LP's 'base' to try to keep the name/brand strong and consistent, while welcoming any movement of more mainstream pols toward it. ENM:

Great, now we’re going to have all kinds of mainstream politicians speaking in hushed tones about their libertarianism, trying to cross over just to get the Paul supporters’ money.

At the risk of ruining our budding pal-ship ;-) let me say I think it is ‘great’. While there is some inevitable dilution of the term ‘libertarian’, right now it’s good that it’s seen as something people want to hear from politicians.

It’s the job of the LP’s ‘base’ to try to keep the name/brand strong and consistent, while welcoming any movement of more mainstream pols toward it.

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