Phillies speaks out in support of witchcraft and Wicca
From the Phillies 2008 campaign:
Libertarian Presidential candidate George Phillies urged Americans not to repeat a sad error in our nation’s history. “Three centuries ago, Massachusetts hanged nineteen people for witchcraft. The people of Massachusetts have long since realized that witchcraft trials are a travesty of justice.
“Witchcraft trials were three centuries ago,” Phillies continued.
“Our Constitution enshrines freedom of religion. Do our elected officials want to return to 1690? Alas, some Republicans do.
“In Summer 1999, Congressional bigots campaigned for Army persecution of members of the Wiccan faith. Republican Senator Thurmond demanded Wiccan services be excluded from the military. In an ABC News interview, then-Governor George Bush announced ‘I don’t think that witchcraft is a religion.’ The charge was started by right-wing Georgia Congressman Bob Barr, who urged the Army to ban Wiccan services from military bases.
“Bigotry is a key theme of right-wing Republicanism, going back to the KKK and Concerned Citizens Councils,” Phillies said. “Like all other patriotic Americans, Libertarians believe that Freedom of Religion is for everyone. No real Libertarian will ever ask that a religion’s harmless practices be banned. This Fall, please take a stand against Republican bigotry. Please vote Libertarian.”
April 1st, 2008 at 7:39 pm
This is bizarre, even for George Phillies. Just when I was starting to like him, too.
Is Phillies scared of losing the Wicca vote at the LP convention or does he hate Bob Barr as much as he hates Ron Paul? Just like with Ron Paul, he’d rather attack Liberty’s best chance and in this case, destroy the LP.
I’m voting for Ruwart unless Barr jumps in. Phillies lost any remaining chances for me because of this one.
George, why don’t you drop from the presidential race and lose a race for chairman instead. Again.
April 1st, 2008 at 7:40 pm
“Bigotry is a key theme of right-wing Republicanism, going back to the KKK and Concerned Citizens Councils”
The KKK was formed by and filled with—Democrats. It wasnt until the 70s and 80s, when the KKK and CCC had the least amount of power that they were filled with Republicans. Even then,both organizations were largely composed of old-Dixiecrats.
Before Phillies claims to be the one championing liberty—he should do some research.
And the wiccan thing. My parish (or county,for you guys) just passed an ordinance outlawing “Witchcraft”. The council is predominantly Democratic. Furthermore, no major Republican or anyone else is talking about this right now. Phillies is attempting to create an issue because it allowed him to sucker-punch Bob Barr.
April 1st, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Additionally:
“This Fall, please take a stand against Republican bigotry. Please vote Libertarian.”
Oh,and Libertarians are never bigots,huh?
For a libertarian purist—Phillies sure is attempting to generalize alot.
April 1st, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Phillies?
Collectivist generalizations?
Surely you jest.
April 1st, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Barr’s actions while he was in Congress are legitimate issues to raise, especially the ones that have implications vis a vis the LP and that he may not have publicly addressed since joining the LP.
The merits of any particular mode of religious expression—or none at all—aside, I as a veteran was appalled when Barr spearheaded the effort in Congress to deny freedom of religion to members of the US Armed Forces.
Has Barr repudiated his evil actions and statements on that issue? If not, Phillies is doing the LP a service by bringing it up, because it will certainly be brought up by others.
April 1st, 2008 at 10:02 pm
He’s demagogueing so he can suckerpunch a non-candidate. Its weak.
April 1st, 2008 at 10:23 pm
Phillies’s history is about as strong as his economics. He should stick to physics.
April 1st, 2008 at 10:35 pm
The Wiccan thing is basically my only reservation on Barr at this point, though I’m still boosting him as the strongest potential vote-getter and the only one with the experience in government to actually be qualified for the presidency (Gravel shares the second quality, but is nowhere close to the first). Tom’s absolutely right here and on other threads that Barr needs to lead off with a strong mea culpa for some of his actions in the Congress. If done correctly in “I have seen the light!” language, it can serve not just to calm down jitters in the LP but also as an opportunity to get other social conservatives to start thinking about libertarian ideas.
“He’s demagogueing so he can suckerpunch a non-candidate. Its weak.”
Yup. Phillies last couple press releases were a marked improvement, but now he’s back to the same ol’ repug-baiting. The bit about the KKK and CCC was kind of funny though, I wonder if Phillies is actually that clueless or if he got mixed up trying to make a collectivist argument against conservatives instead of republicans.
April 2nd, 2008 at 4:52 am
As late as 1988, when David Duke ran for president, he did so as a Democrat. Hardcore racists were still angry over that alleged slave-freeing business. The KKK basically originated as a terrorist organization with the the goal of preventing blacks from voting Republican. Hello, Dr. Phillies—is anyone there?
April 2nd, 2008 at 5:05 am
For the benefit of the historically interested, I remind you that the revival of the KKK around 1920, long after its first incarnation had faded from the scene, happened in Indiana and surrounding states.
There were some astonishingly, how shall I put it, colorful people involved.
April 2nd, 2008 at 6:23 am
Phillies awesome sucker punch! Barr’s got some splainin’ ta do! I think Socially Conservative Democrats are in on that ‘anti anything that doesn’t worship the Judeo-Christian god/idols/icons/ghosts/mothers/fathers’ also.
Personally I’m an atheist, folks should be allowed to do what they want as long as they’re not harming anyone…I’m down with the wiccans.
April 2nd, 2008 at 8:04 am
Fred,
Just to be clear, I’m not looking for a “mea culpa” from Barr. No need for him to publicly horsewhip himself. I’d just like to know, in detail, what his changes in political belief are. When you’re getting ready to run for president—and Barr is apparently doing so—there’s a point at which you quit holding your cards close to your chest and start showing them.
April 2nd, 2008 at 8:24 am
I like reading Phillies campaign statements. They never fail to make me laugh.
April 2nd, 2008 at 9:03 am
Yes, all my co-workers want to know where the LP stands on Wiccanism.
It is such a great issue in comparison to endless foreign intervention, toilet paper money, soaring gas prices, government school failures, lack of affordable medical care. Why just yesterday we were all sitting around in the cafeteria and debating the Salem witchtrials.
April 2nd, 2008 at 9:42 am
“Just to be clear, I’m not looking for a “mea culpa” from Barr. No need for him to publicly horsewhip himself. I’d just like to know, in detail, what his changes in political belief are.”
I think the severity of this particular issue deserves a bit more than just a before and after, but I’m not looking for him to bust out the sack-cloth and ashes about it. A simple “I did you wrong” should suffice.
April 2nd, 2008 at 9:46 am
As our constitution does not allow government to establish religion, nor should it be permitted to ban religion. Regardless of the opinions of various government officials such as Barr and Bush, Wicca is a life-affirming, pro-Earth belief system which people will follow, regardless of any one parish’s outlawing of same.
That said, this is, in my opinion, another smokescreen to avoid discussion of more pertinent, prominent issues. A great way to raise fear—“There are witches in your town!”—which seems to be the guiding method to bring voters into alignment with any one candidate.
April 2nd, 2008 at 12:32 pm
“For the benefit of the historically interested, I remind you that the revival of the KKK around 1920, long after its first incarnation had faded from the scene, happened in Indiana and surrounding states.
There were some astonishingly, how shall I put it, colorful people involved.”
...Phillies fails to address his historically innacurate claim against Bob Barr (and all Republicans). Even in Indiana, at this late incarnation, the KKK was dominated by Democrats Dr. Phillies. C’mon—admit you’re wrong.
April 2nd, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Wow, can’t believe I agreed with Dave Williams on something.
April 2nd, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Religious bigotry is not a charge that can be laid at the door of Republicans or Democrats. It is when speaking of Wicca in the United States a particularily nasty Christian thing.
Racism likewise is an issue which crosses party lines. About the KKK they were also anti-semites and anti-catholic which pretty much described most of the white population in the United States in the early 1900’s.
April 2nd, 2008 at 3:21 pm
I didn’t realize the Wiccan faith required government support to hold services.
A bigger question should be whether or not the US Army should be providing religious services. There’s a lot of religions out there, and to provide government services for every religion would be quite costly. And then, what about the atheists who don’t get to take advantage of this?
April 2nd, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Personally Tom, I’m to busy living my life w/o guilt or fear of “being thrown into a lake of fire…where I will be pitch forked by Satan’s henchman….as maggots crawl thru my eyes…for a thousand years…
April 2nd, 2008 at 3:37 pm
April 2nd, 2008 at 12:52 pm
“Wow, can’t believe I agreed with Dave Williams on something.”
LOL ‘Nazi Bill’
April 2nd, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Actually, witchcraft is not a religion; it is the “craft of witches”, just like the name implies. Wicca or Wicce, on the other hand, is a religion, abate a modern one with its CORE beliefs going back farther than any monotheistic religion.
Gosh, I’m going to faint! Bush is right about at least one thing after all: witchcraft is not a religion.
April 2nd, 2008 at 9:07 pm
Good catch Agrento. Come to think of it, some Wiccans I know get a little touchy about the automatic association of the two.
April 2nd, 2008 at 10:45 pm
Roscoe—I’d like to ask you something.
Why is it that your religious beliefs are the only ones worthy of protection and respect?
April 2nd, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Since there are far more Wiccans in the United States than capital-L Libertarians, I think it a tad ironic for the latter to be smirking about and trivializing the genuine religious freedom problems being experienced by the former, particularly since libertarianism purports to be all about freedom. A complaint of discrimination by a marginalized or out-of-the-mainstream group always seems relatively unimportant unless you happen to be a member of that group. Here in Virginia the problems being experienced by gay couples who cannot marry don’t seem particularly pressing to conservative, hyper-religious heterosexuals, who form a large majority here. I recall lots of people in 1976 not exactly “feeling my pain,” as it were, regarding Roger MacBride’s problems with ballot access and discrimination against 3rd parties. Not exactly the burning issue of the day, right?
April 3rd, 2008 at 7:32 am
Note to Trent Hill:
Which parish in Louisiana and when did the anti-witchcraft law pass? This is something I’m going to pass around worldwide. I know who to tell. We’ll get ‘em good before they can pass the anti-church-across-the-street law.
April 3rd, 2008 at 11:47 am
Only intellectual children who believe in a judgmental boogyman in the sky who created man, and woman from man’s rib (and left incest to the rest) a few thousand years ago, who flooded the Earth when he was on the rag (one man saving the world by rounding up every last animal, including billions of species of insects and bacteria, etc. on a big ship), and then descended upon the Earth as himself/his son (skitzo?), walked on water, died and was resurrected, and was then written about 40-70 years later in books that were ultimately selected (many more cast aside) a few hundred years later by the same people that allegedly killed him (if he ever existed, which I don’t think he did), all without any legitimate historical evidence of his existence on Earth or in Heaven could possibly care enough to pass a law outlawing a RIVAL BRAND of hokus pokus. What a waste.
April 3rd, 2008 at 2:18 pm
The KKK was formed by right-wing Democrats, not right-wing Republicans.
As far as I’m concerned, our tax dollars should not go toward funding anyone’s religious ceremonies. If you wish for your deceased relative to receive a religious ceremony, then it’s your responsibility to pay for it, not the tax-payers.
I agree with Dr. Phillies that Wiccans should be treated equally with members of other religions.
April 3rd, 2008 at 2:55 pm
“Bush is right about at least one thing after all: witchcraft is not a religion.”
Oh, you’ll open a can of worms with that! lol. I’ve heard vehement arguments for both sides. Still, there are those who consider just “Witchcraft” to be their religion regardless of those who say it’s a practice and not a religion in itself… (I think it’s rather like you can practice Yoga as a religion or as a fitness program… neither is really wrong, just different… yet both can reasonably be called “yoga”.)
In any case, it’s good to know this about a candidate – regardless of any inaccuracies on Phillies part. I also would like to see if Mr. Barr’s views have changed in the last eight years.
April 3rd, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Who cares if witchcraft is a religion or not?
The issue is not that the government should be treating religions equally, it’s that they shouldn’t be treating anyone at all for any reason, period.
April 4th, 2008 at 1:16 am
The headline is really misleading.
Dr. Phillies was not speaking either for or against Wicca or witchcraft but against religious bigotry in general which happened to manifest in this particular way at this particular time.
Curious that people still manage to find ways to disagree with him over something as fundamentally Libertarian as protecting religious freedom.
April 4th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
I am an American. I am registered to vote. And I am Wiccan. It is my religion. Freedom of Religion means any religion, even if it is a belief system that you do not understand or perceive to be different.
April 5th, 2008 at 5:00 am
I’m an American veteran. I am a registered voter. So is my husband. We call ourself pagan, but are very close to wiccans in belief.
Freedom of religion means any religion. WHy are we even having this debate?
Bob Barr needs to make a statement on his stance, as wicca is the fastest growing religion in America, and that is not counting all the various neopagans and pagans who do answer ‘wiccan’ when asked in surveys, but are very closely, if loosely, in alignment with it.
April 5th, 2008 at 5:42 am
“...even if it is a belief system that you do not understand or perceive to be different.”
You’re not going to find any disagreement on this site, so why bother saying what you just did?
April 5th, 2008 at 5:47 am
“Bob Barr needs to make a statement on his stance”
Barr has joined the LP, and has rejected his former SO-CON status in favor of being SO-TOL. Isn’t that a loud enough statement?
April 5th, 2008 at 5:51 am
“Politics, is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.”
Barry Goldwater
April 5th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
SO-CON? SO-TOL? What?
April 6th, 2008 at 8:07 am
SOCIAL CONSERVATIVE & SOCIALLY TOLERANT
Peak you were never in the military were you? Acronyms rule the world…COMNAVAIR…FORSCOM…OPFOR…FARP…FUBAR…SNAFU…AFU…shit like that geek.
April 6th, 2008 at 8:12 am
Now don’t ask me anymore questions….I’ve been avoiding you like the fucking plague…the last thing I want to do is to actually need to read and reply to one of your posts, I mean, ‘novels’ that you write…LOL
April 6th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
I’m a pagan. I think this is just silly. There are much bigger issues to worry about. I believe we should all have the same rights no matter what religion you follow, but war, recession, and lack of healthcare are WAY more important.
May 13th, 2008 at 9:34 am
If you think religious tolerance is not important, think about what will happen if we are denied our right to follow our own spiritual path.
The Libertarian Party’s official stance on religion is: “We defend the rights of individuals to engage in (or abstain from) any religious activities that do not violate the rights of others.
Solution: In order to defend freedom, we advocate a strict separation of church and State. We oppose government actions that either aid or attack any religion. We oppose taxation of church property for the same reason that we oppose all taxation. We condemn the attempts by parents or any others—via kidnappings or conservatorships—to force children to conform to any religious views. Government harassment or obstruction of religious groups for their beliefs or non-violent activities must end.” (Libertarian Party Platform, section I3)
This certainly is more in harmony with Mr. Phillies’ statements than those made in 1999 by Mr. Barr. I ask, does Bob Barr stand by his 1999 anti-religious tolerance stance, or does he support the Libertarian Party platform?