Chuck Baldwin becomes the Constitution Party Presidential Nominee

I was watching the Constitution Party Convention live online and managed to obtain these state-by-state vote totals:

Alabama: No delegates
Alaska: Keyes 3
Arizona: Baldwin 2
Arkansas: Baldwin 7
California: Baldwin 12.8 Keyes 51.2
Colorado: Baldwin 9 Keyes 3
Connecticut: Baldwin 6 Keyes 2
Delaware: Baldwin 3
Florida: Keyes 1 Imperato 1 Baldwin 35
Georgia: Baldwin 5
Idaho: Baldwin 7.66 Keyes 3.33
Illinois: Baldwin 4 Keyes 4
Iowa: Baldwin 7 Keyes 2
Kansas: Ducey 1 Baldwin 6 Keyes 6
Kentucky: Baldwin 10 Keyes 4
Louisiana: Baldwin 9
Maine: Baldwin 4
Maryland: Keyes 2
Massachussetts: Baldwin 3 Keyes 1
Michigan: Riekse 4.5 Keyes 4.5 Baldwin 19
Minnesota: Baldwin 12 Keyes 2
Mississippi: Baldwin 14
Missouri: Keyes 7 Baldwin 5
Montana: No delegates
Nebraska: Baldwin 5
Nevada: Baldwin 10
New Jersey: Keyes 1 Baldwin 22
New Mexico: Baldwin 9
New York: Baldwin 1 Keyes 1
North Carolina: Baldwin 3
North Dakota: no delegates
Ohio: Keyes 5 Baldwin 16
Oklahoma: Keyes 5 Baldwin 4
Oregon: Baldwin 3
Pennsylvania: Keyes 14.7 Baldwin 17.3
Rhode Island: no delegates
South Carolina: (argument about amount of delegates allowed) Baldwin 15 (was initially announced as 22 for Baldwin)
South Dakota: Baldwin 8
Tennessee: Keyes 3 Baldwin 15
Texas: Baldwin 9
Utah: Baldwin 15
Virginia: Baldwin 22
Washington: Baldwin 17
West Virginia: no delegates
Wisconsin: Baldwin 12
Wyoming: no delegates

Here is the official vote total:

Riekse 4.5
Baldwin 383.8
Ducey 1
Imperato 1
Keyes 125.7

Third Party Watch wishes to congratulate Chuck Baldwin on his nomination and wishes him success in November. Stay tuned to Third Party Watch for additional coverage of the convention.

113 Responses to “Chuck Baldwin becomes the Constitution Party Presidential Nominee”

  1. disinter Says:

    Shame on the CP for not nominating the perfect candidate for their party: Alan Keynes.

    He did win CA though!

  2. Alicia Says:

    KeyNes
    AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  3. Former LP Life Member Says:

    I am so happy to have someone principled to vote for.

    Baldwin in 2008!

  4. John Lowell Says:

    Well, the CP dodged the Keyes bullet. I’ll bet he never again darkens their door.

  5. Jeff Wartman Says:

    I’m surprised the Illinois delegates had four that went for Keyes…it’s painfully obvious that they are ignorant of the 2004 Senate fiasco.

  6. G.E Smith the Capitalist Dove Says:

    Down with Keynes! Down with Barr!

  7. Ben Says:

    They’ll see Keyes when Daniel Imperato makes a huge donation to the CP. ROTFLMHO

  8. Jeff Wartman Says:

    Well, the CP dodged the Keyes bullet. I’ll bet he never again darkens their door.

    Racist!

    j/k :)

  9. Glenn Brown Says:

    2004 all over again. How sad.
    Ballot qualified in 17 states now Maybe 30 or so by November, but with a no-name candidate they will lose atleast half of qualified state again.

  10. John Lowell Says:

    Jeff Wartman,

    “Racist!

    j/k”

    You’re only saying that cause I’m good lookin’. :-)

  11. Mike Gillis Says:

    Damn, that’s a real ass kicking for Alan Keyes.

  12. disinter Says:

    There is a quote from Dr. Albert Ellis in which I find some solace: “By not caring too much about what people think, I’m able to think for myself and propagate ideas which are very often unpopular. And I succeed.” For some reason, it makes me feel less alone in this quest to expose religion for the fraudulent and dangerous idealogy that it is.

    http://www.rationalresponders.com/adversity

  13. Nate Evans Says:

    It’s good that Alan Keyes didn’t get the nod. Someone previously said that he was a “perfect fit” for the CP, and yet the founder (who’s the best person to judge) bashed him. The CP won’t accept a warmonger into their ranks, that is simply unacceptable to them.

  14. Ben Miller Says:

    The CP made the right choice by choosing Baldwin over Keyes.

    As said in my endorsement of Baldwin, he “would keep the Party together in 2008, giving it them the best chance of becoming a stronger party in the future even if they don’t get an overwhelming amount of votes this year.”

    There is no point in running a big name candidate if that candidate would tear your party apart.

  15. Jason Says:

    Glen Brown: “2004 all over again. How sad.
    Ballot qualified in 17 states now Maybe 30 or so by November, but with a no-name candidate they will lose atleast half of qualified state again.”

    That can sum up everthing that took place. I said about a month ago on another topic that the CP would nominate Baldwin because he is known and the safe pick.

    Well they have effectively made my decision easier. The CP will be forever dead to me as an serious alternative. I reserved from them 30% of my interest—down from 100% and it’s because of crap like this.

    This will help bury what’s left of the CP. Good going fellas.

  16. Kelly Parker Says:

    His supporters want to form their own party now.
    Good luck with that.

  17. joe Says:

    Alan Keyes is denouncing the CP as another Satanic party. Maybe there’s a place for him in Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s administration.

  18. Jared Says:

    Percentages:

    Baldwin 74.38%
    Keyes 24.36%
    Rieske 0.87%
    Imperato 0.19%
    Ducey 0.19%

    Congrats CP on nominating your best candidate. Any rumblings on the VP nomination?

  19. John Lowell Says:

    disinter,

    “For some reason, it makes me feel less alone in this quest to expose religion for the fraudulent and dangerous idealogy that it is”

    And the need to spell out your spiritual vacuity here on the web for the world to see, disinter? An attempt at self-assurance perhaps? I’d posit that the loneliness you about which you complain is the cause, not the consequence, of this quest on which you’ve decided to embark. And, guaranteed, in continuing with it, it will leave you just as empty as you were when you began. Maybe better to shead the self-pity and take the consequences of your atheism like a man.

  20. Stefan Says:

    Howard Phillips had a nice interview with Keyes on immigration last year. If Keyes were anti-war or in any case called for a retreat some time, saying the purpose was served (with his view) and time to come home and a little less interventionist, he would have been a good candidate for the CP. I guess the war-issue was decisive. On the one hand, one feel sorry for Keyes,they had an interview with him in his hotel after the vote. If he wants to be active in politics (and religion), maybe he should try to get a congress seat where he has a viable chance (with a lot of African Americans and other minorities? his wife is Indian), or try something like a radio show or he could get a position with some of the media as a contributer or with some foundation. Baldwin gave Keyes a warm hug yesterday after their speeches. I do not think it makes sense for him to try the Reform Party nomination for instance. Maybe he should have joined the CP before and get to know the people. If Keyes is not the VP candidate, the CP would do well in selecting someone that is pretty well known and could be a candidate in four years time. I wonder whether they will go for Mary Starrett?
    IMHO she would be better than an older man, like “Mad Max”...otherwise she should run for congress.

  21. Adam Graham Says:

    The Constitution Party showed today why it is waste of time. It is filled with a lot of people who are intolerant of any dissent. (when Alan Keyes isn’t conservative enough, something’s wrong.) Phillips and Baldwin both showed themselves to be backstabbers. Keyes treated Phillips with respect and even treated the CP with respect over years when they were a joke. Keyes appeared at Baldwin’s church as recently as last year. And when Keyes finally takes up numerous invitations to come to the party. Wham. Knife in the back. Not only not voted up, but attacked viciously. Politics as usual from the CP. It’s another good reason not to waste time on third parties. They don’t know how to play the game.

  22. Ben Says:

    Glen, do you know anything about ballot access laws? Except for just a handful of states: California, Colorado, Nevada, Michigan, Missouri, and Utah. The Constitution Party itself does not have ballot access. The party apparatus in most states has gotten themselves a Presidential ballot line for 2008 now to be filled by Mr. Baldwin.

    Even if the CP’s Presidential nominee were to do well in 2008, every state has to have some other method to get full state recognition for the party. I am most familiar with Minnesota having been a state-wide candidate.

    In Minnesota, a state-wide candidate must garner over 5% of the popular vote every two years to attain and retain ballot access. For instance, let’s say Chuck Baldwin get 5% in Minnesota. In 2010, a candidate for governor or some other state-wide race would have to get 5% for the CPMN to be recognised as a political party in 2012 and have ballot access.

    Some states have a registered voter requirement (CA & NV) and some states have a Congressional candidate percentage (UT), and most of the rest require a state-wide candidate to attain a certain percentage. No-name candidate for President or not, most third parties have to petition to get their candidate[s] on the ballot without regard to which office it is.

    This shouldn’t be that hard to figure out. Keyes was no magic bullet that was going to maintain ballot access because he was the nominee in 2008. Anybody who believed that Keyes being the CP nominee was going to propel Keyes to the Presidency and the CP to nation-wide majour party status has been smoking the Hobbitt pipe-weed.

    Fortunately, we do not have a nation-wide ballot access standard and the individual states still decide candidate and party ballot access requirements. While some people naievely believe that a TN-style ballot access formula would be implemented nation-wide, I am firmly in the camp that believe more than likely an almost impossible TX-style ballot access would be implemented in a nation-wide ballot access requirement.

    In 2010, there would have to be good candidates and hard-working volunteers necessary to retain that ballot access. Keyes’ dozen extra supporters do not ballot access in all 50 states and DC make.

    What any third party needs are dedicated activists that are willing to get the signatures necessary for their candidates to get on the ballot. Too many third parties are populated by lazy do-nothings that expect lightning to strike.

    Ballot access laws will not change until third party candidates can get elected. Candidates will not get elected if no one is willing to work to get candidates ballot access, continue to volunteer heavily once ballot access is achieved, and have the funds available to promote these candidates.

    A Keyes candidacy would have done to the CP what Buchanan did to the Reform Party. It would not have guaranteed the CP ballot access for 2012.

  23. Jared Says:

    Has Keyes even joined the CP? Has Keyes been involved at any level of the CP since just recently?

    From the looks of it should anyone be surprised that he didn’t get the nomination? He couldn’t even get 25% of the delegates. It wasn’t even close. It’s not like some back door deal was done to keep Keyes out. He lost fair. He lost square. He lost big. Get over it.

  24. Charles Davidson Says:

    Very telling results, California where the GOP has forsaken idealogy goes strongly Keyes. More telling; Illinois which has experienced both Keyes and Obama goes 100% for Keyes.. Baldwin has no name recognition outside the CP. At least with with Keyes there was a large percentage of conservatives(needed to win) that had the attitude “I’d love to vote for Keyes if he stood a chance”. The Phillips blatant mischaracterizations about reperations and interventionism may leave some believing they won the war, however this 11th hour hatchet job has been something more typical of the Republicans, than a party that supposedly embraces virtue. Keyes has stood toe to toe, fighting the RNP neocons such as John McCain and Mitt Romney, and has been on the border affirming the border security citizens here in California, as well as Pro-life groups across the nation. The CP has truly thrown the baby out with the bathwater…

  25. Joseph O Says:

    Looks like yet another disappointing year for third parties. Unable to suspend ideological principles for one year to support a fusion candidate, we are destined for failure once again. Though we do not have one person who would be palatable to all – someone like Bloomberg would have at least served as one not bought and paid for by the established two. That leaves us holding our nose again this year and casting a Neither of the Big Two vote come November.

    So can we see if Baldwin will advocate election reform? See the 10-point platform proposal at IndependentAmerica.org.

  26. Richard Winger Says:

    With all respect to Ben who lives in Minnesota, the ballot access laws do frequently change. Starting in 1997, 15 states have substantially improved their ballot access laws. These laws change when activists get to work and change them.

    Also Ben is mistaken to say a Minnesota party needs to poll 5% for a statewide race every two elections. In 2001 the Minnesota law was improved. Now a party only needs to poll 5% for a statewide race in either of the last two elections. The Independence Party was responsible for getting this good change through, since they realized without that change, they would go off the ballot in 2004, when president was the only statewide office on the ballot.

  27. Deran Says:

    Well, good job kids, do look forward to your hundred thousand or so votes! How exciting for you, you nominated a “perfected” candidate, and once again the CP will drift away into history. Not unlike where the Green are headed, should they nominate one of their “perfected” candidates.

    A round of cheers for the Consitution Party—GO John McCain! Isn’t that what really just happened at the CP con?

  28. G.E. Says:

    “When a liberal neocon isn’t conservative enough. . .”

  29. Ben Says:

    Illinois was a 50/50 split. The only state delegation that Keyes won was California and only because their state party chairman has characterised Baldwin as a “Mormon hater.” The only 11th hour shenanigans in the CP was Keyes leaving the GOP 10 days ago, and expecting the CP to welcome him w/ open arms and coronate him Presidential candidate. What really surprises is me is that Keyes got as many votes as he did after Howard Phillips’ Friday night speech.

  30. Chuck Moulton Says:

    Can someone explain the fractional votes to me? I’m not familiar with the Constitution Party nominating process.

  31. Ben Says:

    I was not aware of that change in Minnesota ballot access. I was always under the impression that the IPMN was merely given a pass in 2004 since it was only a one-state party that did not have a Presidential nominee. I was not aware that the law was actually re-written. At the same time, however, Minnesota removed the provision that a district could enjoy ballot access. If a third party could get over 5% in a legislative race, then the next election they could enjoy ballot access in just that legislative district without the need for petitioning.

    While a coalition of driven hard-working ballot access activists can and do change state ballot access laws, the point I was making that one national candidate does not allow for ballot access every where. It takes dedicated hard-work by a lot of talented relentless people. Too many minour parties are populated by folks that won’t even sign a petition sheet to get their own candidate[s] on the ballot much less work for them to get them elected to office and maintain hard-fought ballot access, ex. CPMN 2000 and GPMN 2004.

  32. Ms. Hunter Says:

    Isn’t the veep also selected by convention vote? Or is it the nominee’s pick?

    Is there any chance for a Baldwin/Keyes ticket?

    Don’t count Baldwin out, he is God’s choice. He is known in Florida and Georgia and Alabama, and that knowledge could well spread.

  33. Ben Says:

    I am surprised that the CP actually recorded its fractional votes that in 2008. In 2004, those states reporting fractional votes on platform amendments were rounded. A state reporting 4.5 for and 10.5 against would have been recorded 4/10.

    Every state delegation is allowed a certain number of votes, and if a delegation isn’t full they are free to divide their votes proportionally, essentially a delegate from an unfilled delegation may have a bigger vote than a delegate in a filled delegation. For instance, say a delegation is allowed 15 delegates, but only 10 people show up to vote. 3 people voting Keyes and 7 people voting Baldwin may be reported by that state delegation as 4.5 for Keyes and 10.5 Baldwin.

    Every state is free to decide how they will report their votes. Some delegations may be winner takes all: 3 votes Keyes/7 votes Baldwin, report 15 votes Baldwin. Some delegations may only allow one vote per delegate: 3 votes Keyes/7 votes Baldwin. Some states may decide uncast votes to go to the candidate getting the most votes: 3 votes Keyes/7 vote Baldwin: report 3 votes Keyes/12 votes Baldwin. Some states may allow their state party chairman to cast empty vote for the candidate of his choice: 3 votes Keyes/7votes Baldwin: report 8 votes Keyes/7 votes Baldwin.

    There is no hard and fast requirement by the CP as to how votes a re reported to the convention. They only issue ballots to each delegation. It is the determination of each delegation how those votes will be reported and dispersed.

  34. Ben Says:

    The delegates vote on the VP candidate. However, if the Presidential nominee has a preference he is welcome to make a speech nominating his preferred VP nominee. If Keyes or any one else wants to be the CP’s nominee they will be voted on by the delegates.

  35. Kerwin Says:

    The Keyes supporters just don’t get it. They just don’t see Keyes as an opportunitist. He is. Realize that. If they did, Keyes would lose the two dozen supporters that he has.
    Sorry about your losses Keyes’ supporters. But it was for a reason. Keyes spouts views that do not fit in with any group of supporters other then a few fanatical Mormons (who’s life mission is to support a candidate and then complain about lack of mainstream coverage) and religious zealots (who think we are now doomed).
    These wackos need to carry signs near the park foretelling of imminent doom. What they seem to have forgotten was that we built the greatest nation with the ideology they abhor.
    Sorry guys, you lose. And you lost for a reason. We don’t want you telling us, or guiding us, to your ideology. GET IT?!

  36. Joseph Marzullo Says:

    Which delegate was for Imperato? lol. someone needs to find and INTERVIEW that delegate!

  37. Ben Says:

    I don’t know who voted for Imperato, but I will hazard a guess that his vote was an “I Don’t Care” vote or NOTA. Perhaps it was Chuck Baldwin?

  38. matthew Says:

    idiots. now the cp has no chance whatsoever of winning the presidential election.

  39. Rob Says:

    What’s the over/under for how many more votes the LP will get than the CP this year? 5 times? 10?

    If they nominated Keyes, they might have been able to close the gap a bit…

  40. Stephen Gordon Says:

    Imperato is from Florida and the Imperato vote was from Florida. It’s probably safe to draw some conclusion from this.

  41. Cody Quirk Says:

    Ballot qualified in 17 states now

    = That’s 20 states now!

    Illinois was a 50/50 split. The only state delegation that Keyes won was California and only because their state party chairman has characterised Baldwin as a “Mormon hater.”

    = As Ed claims. However Baldwin has stated before that he sees Mormons better at fighting to protect our Constitution and adhering to the Founding Fathers views then he does members of his denomination. Chuck is no ‘Mormon hater’.
    Also notice how Utah and Nevada went for Baldwin 100% I didn’t know if Janine Hansen was going to vote for him, but she did apparently.

    Now I wonder who the VP will be. I do think if Keyes actually was willing to settle for VP, then he could get it. But I highly doubt that. HIGHLY.

    FYI, even having Keyes as our candidate, I do not think it would’ve made much difference in votes. And while the media publicity would’ve been better, again, it still wouldn’t have been enough to make the Constitution Party a household name, or even match the publicity that George Wallace got.

  42. Ben Says:

    matthew Says:

    April 26th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
    idiots. now the cp has no chance whatsoever of winning the presidential election.

    Does any one, but fanatical Keyes supporters, actually believe any independent or minour party candidate can win it all in 2008? The CP won’t even be on the ballot in all 50 states and the DC, much less win the Presidency. Keyes wasn’t/isn’t going to win w/ or w/o the CO. Get over it!

    I firmly believe the next President will be chosen in Denver by the DNC. The only question is: will the next US President be a black man from Illinois or a white woman with 8 years of Presidential experience? If I might make a prediction, I predict Barack Obama will be the Democratic nominee and win the Presidency.

  43. Cody Quirk Says:

    Keyes spouts views that do not fit in with any group of supporters other then a few fanatical Mormons

    = All I can think of for now is Ed Noonan, all the other LDS supported Chuck. Utah was unanimous for Chuck.

  44. John Killian Says:

    What is Dr Keyes’ reaction to his loss? Will Alan Keyes support Chuck Baldwin or will he bolt and still run as an independent?

  45. Ben Says:

    Cody, just for the record. You and I agree, again. :) It’s amasing how Keyes can have such a unifying effect. LOL

    I too don’t think Keyes being the CP’s nominee would have had a significant impact on the vote totals.

    Cody, what do you think Ed Noonan will do now that Baldwin is the nominee? You know him better than I do. I suspect that he will complain a bunch and even bluster that he wants to disaffiliate the AIPCA and give Keyes the AIPCA’s ballot line.

  46. G.E. Says:

    If you want to nominate a liberal neocon in the name of getting votes, kick Chuck Baldwin off the ballot and put Hitlery there.

  47. Jason Says:

    “FYI, even having Keyes as our candidate, I do not think it would’ve made much difference in votes. And while the media publicity would’ve been better, again, it still wouldn’t have been enough to make the Constitution Party a household name, or even match the publicity that George Wallace got.”

    Cody, and what’s his name…..Baldwin will? This was a horrible choice and wasted opportunity to capitalize on the dissent in the GOP and among conservatives.

    I predicted that Chuck Baldwin would get the nod…I’ll predict this as well. The CP will do worse in 08 than they did in 04.

    The CP might as well give it up. There not an option. Just a glorified, organized bitch session among principled losers.

  48. Cody Quirk Says:

    The CP won’t even be on the ballot in all 50 states and the DC, much less win the Presidency.

    = It’s not about trying to win, its about spreading the message, and hopefully stay on the ballot in more states for 2010.

  49. Nigel Watt Says:

    Imperato is from Florida and the Imperato vote was from Florida. It’s probably safe to draw some conclusion from this.

    I think that conclusion is pretty obvious too.

  50. Ben Says:

    With or without Keyes, the CP may not get as many votes in ‘08 as ‘04. A lot of us plan to stay home on Election Day because there is no one to vote for. Keyes would not have made the CP big-time. How many votes did Keyes get from dissenting Republicans this spring again? I think there is a small chance that Ron Paul could endorse Chuck Baldwin. There is no way that Keyes could get that sort of support.

    Keyes is just as much of a nobody as Chuck Baldwin. Keyes’ time passed him by 10 years ago, and the American public with its short memories will not be flocking to Keyes. Dissenting Republicans and conservatives, in masse, will do just as they have been doing for over 50 years, voting GOP because they believe that the Democrat will be worse than McCain. Go canvass the street today and ask how many people have ever heard of Alan Keyes or Chuck Baldwin. I am guessing that those who even know who Alan Keyes is will be a number very very close to zero. If you happen to meet some one who knows who Alan Keyes is, it is even less likely that they would vote for him. More than likely, that person would not have positive things to say about Keyes.

    Stop toking on the Hobbitts’ pipeweed Keyes supporters! Keyes was not the CP’s salvation. Quite the contrary. I honestly believe that a Keyes campaign would have driven out more people than would have brought in. And Keyes’ supporters know little to nothing (evidenced by the comments on Keyes’ campaign website) about the nuts and bolts of running an underfunded minour party long-shot Presidential campaign. Those leaving the CP due to a Keyes candidacy are those with the experience and talents Keyes would need to make any sort of a dent.

  51. Ben Says:

    Cody Quirk Says:

    = It’s not about trying to win, its about spreading the message.

    Hey Cody, we agree again. LOL

  52. Ben Says:

    “Imperato is from Florida and the Imperato vote was from Florida. It’s probably safe to draw some conclusion from this.”

    I didn’t know Imperato was from FL, but I am surprised he was even allowed a delegate slot.

  53. Cody Quirk Says:

    Cody, what do you think Ed Noonan will do now that Baldwin is the nominee? You know him better than I do. I suspect that he will complain a bunch and even bluster that he wants to disaffiliate the AIPCA and give Keyes the AIPCA’s ballot line.

    =I dunno, but if he tried to disaffiliate, he wouldn’t have the votes in the AIP to, I’d also tell him ‘you’re acting idiotic’.
    For one, Nevada and Utah are not going to break away and are going to support Chuck, as am I.

    Cody, and what’s his name…..Baldwin will? This was a horrible choice and wasted opportunity to capitalize on the dissent in the GOP and among conservatives.

    =You may be right, I so wanted Jerome Corsi, it really REALLY sucked chuzpah that he withdrew.

    However, with a Baldwin candidacy, the CP will survive and be there for 2012. If Alan got the nod, and he got enough people to join the Party, it is possible he could’ve seized the reins and probably screw it up like Pat did to the Reform Party. Then again, Pat’s opponent in the RfP was also responsible too.

    Chuck may not get the votes, but its better to not take unnecessary risks that could lead the CP off a cliff.

    BTW, if Alan could’ve gotten the media attention, why couldn’t he flood the convention with his supporters and take over, or even get enough to split it 50/50? The fact that he couldn’t do what Pat and the Buchananites did to the RfP, definally shows that his supporters are smaller in number then I thought.

  54. Jason Gatties Says:

    Congrats to Chuck Baldwin. I’m a LP member (although lately not sure why), but the CP made the right choice. I like Chuck Baldwin, seems like a good person.

    I don’t waste my breath “dissing” other Third Parties like GE does. We are all fighting the establishment, I don’t see the need to rip other parties.

  55. Ben Says:

    Cody, I don’t think Ed would have the votes to disaffiliate either, but that wouldn’t stop Ed from throwing one of his famous temper tantrums any way. :)

    Again, I agree with you on Keyes’ lack of support. If Keyes was the CP’s salvation, he could have easily gotten the delegates necessary to at least split the convention. His supporters are few and thought they could hijack the CP to get more supporters. Definitely not the other way around as they would want y’all to believe.

  56. Steve Rankin Says:

    Ron Paul won’t endorse a third-party candidate, since, if he did, he would run the risk of being disciplined by the House Republican Conference. This could include being stripped of his seniority.

  57. Red Phillips Says:

    Good for the Constitution Party. They did the right thing. A non-interventionist party nominated a non-interventionist candidate. Keyes would have split and destroyed the Party. Thanks for all the hard work done by the posters here. All the Internet backlash made a real difference.

  58. Cody Quirk Says:

    BTW Ben, I bet Chuck can do better then Peroutka. For one we got on the ballot in Hawaii, unlike in 2004.
    That ought to be an omen.

    If the CP can’t win the White House, then I can say the same for the LP, the GP, and even the IPA.

  59. -J- Says:

    Great news

  60. Cody Quirk Says:

    Cody, I don’t think Ed would have the votes to disaffiliate either, but that wouldn’t stop Ed from throwing one of his famous temper tantrums any way.

    =His term as Chair ends this year at the State Convention, he can’t run for re-election.

  61. Ben Says:

    Now you’re just trying to bait me, Cody. It really doesn’t matter. I, for one, will be staying home on Election Day. My prediction is that just like 2004, the CP will place 5th nation-wide. It is just spin after that.

    I think Barack Obama is going to be the next President, and there is really nothing I can do ‘bout it.

  62. -J- Says:

    Somewhere Red Phillips is smiling

  63. G.E. Says:

    Gatties – Fuck you, man. Quit name dropping me in every post. I’m congratulating the CP for taking a principled stand, not dissing. I will vote for Baldwin if the LP nominates a non-libertarian, which is unfortunately quite likely. What is your problem? I let your first dig at me slide, but two is one too many.

  64. Cody Quirk Says:

    His supporters are few and thought they could hijack the CP to get more supporters.

    = That tells you something. Keyes is more like Bo Gritz then Pat Buchanan, when it comes to his support base.

  65. Cody Quirk Says:

    Now you’re just trying to bait me, Cody. It really doesn’t matter. I, for one, will be staying home on Election Day. My prediction is that just like 2004, the CP will place 5th nation-wide. It is just spin after that.

    =Whatever. The imporant races that the CP needs to concentrate on are the ones we can win, like the local offices.

    I wouldn’t be suprised if Obama won. But the Dem nomination looks like it will be close.

  66. Gene Berkman Says:

    Congratulations to Rev. Chuck Baldwin. He is an honorable man, and committed to freedom almost as much as a Libertarian would be.

    Certainly antiwar conservatives can proudly vote for Chuck Baldwin rather than John McBomb. And they saved the Constitution Party from the overhyped prowar self-promoting neocon who only went to them to get their nomination.

  67. Chet Says:

    Well, you got the candidate the Constitution Party deserves. . . . Not the one that’s best for this country mind you, but certainly, one you deserve.

  68. Andrew Murphy Says:

    Will Alan Keyes now, call the dogs in, throw water on the campfire and finally retire from campaigning…....please

  69. Steve Rankin Says:

    Keyes’s next big honor will be winning the Harold Stassen Award.

  70. Chet Says:

    Oh, and if he would somehow get elected, not that there’s a snowballs chance in hell of that happening, but if he did, you’d find out he’s a lot more interventionist than you would/could imagine. Probably more so than Keyes or Moore would have been.

    Anyway, great win for the CP!

  71. Andy Says:

    All right! I’m in the Libertarian Party, not the Constitution Party, but for the Constitution Party I think that the best candidate they had available won in Chuck Baldwin.

  72. Steven R Linnabary Says:

    According to the CP websites’ convention schedule, the Veep nomination should have been made by now.

    The suspense is killing me. Any word, yet??

    Damn Keyes for taking down the live feed!

    PEACE
    Steve

  73. Andy Says:

    “G.E. Says:

    April 26th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
    Gatties – Fuck you, man. Quit name dropping me in every post. I’m congratulating the CP for taking a principled stand, not dissing. I will vote for Baldwin if the LP nominates a non-libertarian, which is unfortunately quite likely.”

    I MIGHT vote for Chuck Baldwin as well if the Libertarian Party ends up with a crappy candidate.

  74. Brian Says:

    Steven, Yeah, I am wondering about that too. I’m sure it has been chosen by now. Hopefully the TPW team will have it posted soon!

  75. Andy Says:

    “Here is the official vote total:

    Riekse 4.5
    Baldwin 383.8
    Ducey 1
    Imperato 1
    Keyes 125.7”

    Imperato went after the Constitution Party’s nomination! Man, this guy never ceases to amaze me. I’d bet that the one vote that he recieved came from himself.

  76. Braden Says:

    Lol, is this Chet person serious?

    ‘Chuck Baldwin is a lot more interventionist than you would/could imagine. Probably more so than Keyes or Moore would have been’

    I suggest you go to chuckbaldwinlive.com and read his columns over the past 4+ years. That is such a ridiculous suggestion I don’t know how else to respond. That’s the equivalent of saying Ron Paul would bomb Iran without provocation his first day in office. It just doesn’t make any sense in the least.

    I’d suggest you crawl back to the Alan Keyes forum and continue your smearing of anybody who didn’t support his candidacy as a ‘white supremacist’.

  77. Ben Says:

    “The imporant races that the CP needs to concentrate on are the ones we can win, like the local offices.”

    Now we’re playing nice again. :) I have come to the same conclusion for all minour parties.

  78. Mike Theodore Says:

    HAHAHA! Go home KEYES! My 10 hour bedside vigil worked!
    Running mate yet?

  79. disinter Says:

    The CP will feel the wrath of GOD for not nominating the only religious nutcase that fits their philosophy perfectly: Alan Keynes. Shame, shame I tell you!

  80. Chet Says:

    I suggest you go to chuckbaldwinlive.com and read his columns over the past 4+ years. That is such a ridiculous suggestion I don’t know how else to respond. That’s the equivalent of saying Ron Paul would bomb Iran without provocation his first day in office. It just doesn’t make any sense in the least.

    That’s ok Braden, what he says in his writings, and what he would do as leader of the Free World are two different things. The decision, if he was elected, is not his to make alone.

    Your analogy and arguments for Paul and Baldwin are indicative of one with half of a normal seating capacity. . . . . i.e., half-ass.

  81. Dave Williams Says:
    1. Red Phillips Says:
      April 26th, 2008 at 1:59 pm

    “Good for the Constitution Party. They did the right thing. A non-interventionist party nominated a non-interventionist candidate. Keyes would have split and destroyed the Party. Thanks for all the hard work done by the posters here. All the Internet backlash made a real difference.”

    No sweat Red, anytime.

    But here’s a question for ya…does the CP & Chuck Baldwin support these patriots?
    http://www.atheistfoxholes.org/

  82. Fred C. Says:

    “Keyes is more like Bo Gritz then Pat Buchanan, when it comes to his support base.”

    Way to rub salt in an old wound, Cody. ;(

  83. Dave Williams Says:

    No one dare call us unpatriotic. Atheists make American strong.

    Terrorism is today’s threat. Terrorism isn’t new. It has been used in every war. (pause) Today’s religious terrorism is different, though. It’s hard to stop people who want to kill to prove who has the best imaginary friend. But the best solution to religious terrorism is on a bumper sticker on my truck. It says, “Atheism cures religious terrorism.”

    Atheism has been around much longer than religion. After all, we were here first. Strangely enough, American religion thinks they have Atheists pinned down. They do have us out-numbered, out-spent, out-organized, out-lawyered, out-advertised, and maybe even out-rifled.

    That’s what the British thought about the Continental Army, too. General George Washington’s army spent several years ducking and running, learning and training, until they were big enough, strong enough, smart enough, and ready enough to take America away from England. I’m sure the Atheist Army assembled here today won’t let religion take America away from us. =Jim Heldberg

  84. John Killian Says:

    Just listened to Keyes’ post-convention speech. Is he saying that the Constitution Party is not pro-life?
    He does seem to be closing the door on an independent run.

  85. Catholic Trotskyist Says:

    The fact that Keyes took down the live feed shows that he will probably run as an independent. This will be good since it will steal more Republican votes, having a pro-war and anti-war true conservative candidate, and give Obama the presidency.

    Congratulations to Chuck Baldwin and the Constitution Party. I appreciate their stands for the power of God, even though I don’t agree with 100% of their policies. Dave and Disinter, I do believe that atheists are patriots, but I agree with John Lowell that they have a terrible loneliness that cannot be overcome. I am also happy with this thread because there are several voices standing for Third Party unity and talking about how third parties are wasted votes. Hopefully, this means that the Fringe Alliance strategy is starting to gain support.

    Congratulations again to Chuck Baldwin. I’d rather vote for him than Clinton or McCain. Although I may just write in Daniel Imperato or Milnes/Theodore.
    Please pray for the pope and please pray for Barack Obama.
    Glory to God in the highest and peace to God’s people on Earth.

  86. Joseph Marzullo Says:

    I guess you won’t win because the CP didn’t nominate Michael Imperato. He was going to bring you the Pope and the catholic vote on a silver platter! oh well!! :p

  87. Catholic Trotskyist Says:

    It would be great if Mike Gravel was drafted as the CP VP candidate. Then I would have a much easier time gathering support for the Fringe Alliance Strategy.

  88. Izzy Says:

    Chuck Baldwin starting to get noticed (in a good way):

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/020724.html

  89. Hugh Jass Says:

    Good for the CP for stickin to its principles.

  90. Quietus Says:

    Anyone have any good speeches by Baldwin? The “Living God’s Way During a Recession” one on TPW is really uninspiring.

  91. Izzy Says:

    http://www.takimag.com/sniperstower/article/should_we_go_constitutional/

    Yet another favorable plug for the Reverend.

  92. Richard Winger Says:

    The Constitution Party vice-presidential nominee is Darrell Castle.

  93. Michael Says:

    What was the vote for vice president?

  94. Steve LaBianca Says:

    I say congratulations to the Constitution Party for nominating the candidate that best fits their party’s principles. The CP delegates were smart enough to reject Alan Keyes.

    Now we’ll see if the Libertarian Party delegates will take this cue and be smart enough to reject W.A.R. (mostly) and Bob Barr and Mike Gravel, and nominate the candidate who “best fits (its) party’s principles”, Mary Ruwart.

  95. Stefan Says:

    Richard: thanks for the info. Personally I think the CP should have selected its media spokesperson Mary Starrett, who ran for governor in Oregon two years ago.

    I read something interesting and relevant: in 2002 Howard Phillips had asked Keyes to join the Constitution Party and he declined, saying that he agreed with just about everything the Party stood for except for its criticisms, mostly from Howard, of Lincoln. And now it was especially the Iraq war that stood against Keyes being able to win the nomination. If he would have asked for troop-withdrawal from Iraq (a position he could have taken with his positions), he may have had a better chance.

  96. Catholic Trotskyist Says:

    Whose Castle? We’ve never heard of him before on this site.

    the Libertarians should nominate Barr/Gravel, in order to make a true power alternative, and a base of support for the Fringe Alliance Strategy when they inevitably decide to adopt it?

    My mian question now is, did any of the delegates reading this circulate the Fringe Alliance Strategy around the CP as I requested on numerous threads?

  97. Stefan Says:

    Catholic Trotskyist: funny guy. May I ask what makes you think Obama is not perhaps a longshot fringe, who gained a lot of appeal with his charisma of hope and change, with not much content, and developed an alliance strategy based on an antiwar candidacy, while he voted for the funding of the war, just like Hillary.
    I read that Howard Dean says electability, not delegates, will be crucial for the superdelegates. Of course the DNC wants to win the RNC by all means this year and they may now be afraid the newest relevations on Obama may give the GOP sticks to slap the Dems and that some Hillary supporters by vote for McCain. It is not impossible that they may decide on Hillary on the top, with possibly Obama at the VP slot, or someone else. If Obama is not on the ticket and if the RNC reject Paul, I think there is a chance that Paul could run as a fusion candidate for both the LP and CP (he is the only one that can “combine” them) and integrate both antiwar and pro-war conservatives, moderates/Independents as well as anti-war left (that voted for Obama) and Nader and the Green party candidate will take some extra votes from the Democrats, while McCain and Clinton will mostly fight over more or elss the same sort of pro-war voter base. This would mean Paul & Co will have a winning chance to beat them all, not to be forgotten with your help as well :-)

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/26/us/politics/26ticket.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=all&adxnnlx=1209251466-ad7apJrnbp2dXj72O/NPdQ

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/04/dean-dem-race-c.html

  98. G.E. Says:

    At LRC, Thomas DiLorenzo writes: “Good for my old friend Howard Phillips and the Constitution Party for preventing yet another neocon takeover of a traditional conservative, limited government organization—the Constitution Party. Keyes is the quintessential Neocon insider: He was a student of the flamboyant ‘Straussian’ Alan Bloom at Cornell, and lived in the same house as Bloom, along with several other male neocons who called the womens’ dress-wearing Bloom “master.”; he studied at Harvard under Straussian neocon Harvey Mansfield; and he entered national politics as a sidekick of neocon UN Ambassador Jeane Kirkpatrick during the Reagan years.

    “Shortly after the publication of The Real Lincoln in 2002 Howard Phillips had me on his local cable TV show in Virginia to discuss the book. During one of the breaks he mentioned that he had asked Keyes to join the Constitution Party and he declined, saying that he agreed with just about everything the Party stood for except for its criticisms, mostly from Howard, of Lincoln. Lincoln idolatry is, of course, the defining characteristic of a Straussian Neocon Warmonger like Keyes, for The Legend of Father Abraham is what “justifies” the American empire and its expansion.”

  99. Stefan Says:

    CT: I heard women constitute 60% of the electorate. The LP would do well to select Barr-Ruwart, Barr-Smith or even better Barr-Kwiatkowski and the CP would have done even better if they went with Baldwin-Starrett. 60% is the majority, no fringe alliance! The CP and LP should just not run against each other as well, IMHO.
    It should also be noted that a sizable amount of women would not go for Hillary, but for any other woman. If Obama wins, he may pick Sebelius or Jim Webb.

    BTW: I think Gravel is pro-choice, so the CP will never accept him and he will also never run with them IMHO and has also indicated he is not interested in a VP slot.
    Obama has said we are religious as we are bitter….does not sound so christian to me…
    Please pray for the pope as well as for Ron Paul.

  100. Jeff Wartman Says:

    I hate the Strauss references.

    He was a Professor that ended up having future Bush Admin officials in his classes. He supported intervention, but didn’t even concentrate on International Affairs. He was a specialist in Political Theory, and concentrated on interpretations of Classical political theorists.

    What makes a Straussian? Students? I’m a “grandstudent” of Strauss. The chair of the Poli Sci Dept at my school (I was a Poli Sci major) got his Ph.D. from UChicago and was a student of Strauss. My Prof was an ardent anti-interventionist and wanted Bush impeached. I was taught by a former student of Strauss, so does that make me a “grandstudent”? LOL.

  101. Matt Says:

    The CP is pathetic. They’re the deformed crack baby of 3rd parties. It should speak volumes to their abilities that in 2004. they won fewer votes than write-in candidates in Iowa even though they were on the ballot, and came in behind “None of these candidates” in Nevada. It’s like they consciously try to suck.

  102. Mike Gillis Says:

    I take it Matt is a Keyes supporter?

  103. Sean Scallon Says:

    Congratulations to Rev. Baldwin, who is a good wirter and spokesperson for the Constitution Party. As someone who was there at the beginning of the Moral Majority and the Christian Coalition, Baldwin can be a conduit for religious conservatives and fundementalists who are shopping for a new home with John McCain as the GOP nominee and with the knowledge the Republicans consider them nothing more than “vote pickers”.

    Hopefully Alan Keyes will take the hint and get out of politics for good. How many more rejections do you need from the voters? His supporters are more than welcome to create their own party dedicated to him, maybe even create their own church and build a temple compound if they like. His supporters and welcome and encouraged to stay in the CP. Given the fact that several states did not send delegates to the convention and that there are plenty of nascent local CP organizations they could easily run on their own by joining up, they can play an important role in shaping the future of the party instead of crying over Keyes’ loss in the same way a jilted boyfriend cries at his girls’ picture.

    Had Alan Keyes fully rejcted the War in Iraq and the Patriot Act and interventionism and called for fundemental changes in U.S. foreign policy, maybe he would have been accepted as the party’s nominee. It’s true there are not a lot of differences between Keyes and CP members on many issues. But that’s the rub isn’t? He couldn’t reject the war because it would invalidate his whole belief system. It would be a rejection of everything he’s stood for over the years, every thing he’s learned from his past mentors. Ergo, he could not do it. So all those chiding the party for not being pragmatic enough, I ask you, would the Democrats be pragmatic enough to accpet an anti-abortion candidate on their ticket and the Republicans vice-versa? Will Libertarians be pragmatic enough to support a candidate like Mike Gravel who has called for world-wide government? I don’t think so. Was Keyes prgamatic enough to change his views that could have won him the nomination? (It’s good bet he doesn’t know the meaning of the world).

    There are some things a party can be pragmatic about and some things it cannot, because it destroys the rationale for the party’s existence. The CP is not GOP-lite. To nominate Keyes would require party members to repudiate its true conservative, Constitutional beliefs all in the name of political expidency. Given the fact Mr. Keyes has run three losing Senate camapaign,s three losing campaigns for the GOP presidential nomination and shown himself to be neither an effective manager of said campaigns, nor a very good politican, I have no idea what possible political gain the CP would have if Keyes was nominated.

    The CP has gone through a lot of growing pains recently. It got rid of people who wanted to tear the party apart for purely sectarian reasons. It fended off a takeover attempt by a neocon opportunist. Hopefully now, with its nominee in place, the party can draw in and inspire more activists, build more state parties and take in the disgruntled of the GOP to a party of true conservatism.

  104. Catholic Trotskyist Says:

    Yes Stefan, I agree with this scenario. Obama definitely goes well with the Fringe Alliance. And I certainly hope Ron Paul runs if Hillary gets the nomination. The ABC blog you linked to has an interesting debate. If Dean instigates Hillary’s nomination, I will advocate for the pope to issue an official statement of denunciation against him. I didn’t like him as a presidential candidate, but I had started to support his activities as DNC chairman.

    By the way, why didn’t Montana have any delegates to the CP convention, even though they have the state senator Rick Jore?

  105. SovereignMN Says:

    Just got back from the convention. Glad to see Baldwin get the nomination. He’s truly the best candidate we had to choose from. Nominating Keyes would have torn the party apart. Some are mentioning that the CP will have ballot-access problems with Baldwin? THey would have had it worse with Keyes! More than multiple state chairs mentioned to me that if Keyes were the nominee they don’t know how active they could/would be in acquiring the necessary signatures for ballot access. When you consider that Keyes support is down to a couple hundred (dozen?) people I doubt he could have mobilized his supporters to compensate.

    The choice of Castle as the VP was made by Baldwin and it wasn’t without controversy. The delegation would have preferred Mary Starrett (my choice) or Scott Bradley from Utah but ultimately we submitted to Baldwin’s wishes.

    Baldwin can pull a sizable segment of Ron Paul supporters, especially if the LP goes with a left-leaning candidate. Keyes would have had none of that.

    I got to meet Red Phillips and Trent Hill this weekend which was nice…and yes, Red Phillips is smiling. :-)

  106. G.E. Says:

    SMN - Define “left-leaning.” I think Baldwin will draw libertarian support if the LP nominates a non-purist—i.e. anyone but Ruwart, Kubby, or Smith. I think there are the most objections to the so-called “right” candidates, WAR and Barr.

  107. Stefan Says:

    Catholic T: very good question regarding Montana, was wondering the same, and it is a conservative-libertarian state, where Ron Paul fared quite well. Also Alabama is not represented, whereas it is a conservative southern state. One wonders whether it has to do with state politics and requirements. The CP will be on the ballot in less than 40 states. Although they have the biggest third party membership, the LP has much better ballot access, 48 states with the possibility of all 50. (Israel as the 51st one no party has yet…maybe they should work together with Likud, Kadima and Labour or the Greens).
    Apropo Ron Paul, it will be wise for him to campaign till the RNC in early September and see how it goes, as there is still an outside chance he may get his foot it. That is what people like Patric Ruffini are afraid of. If this does not happen and the RNC treats him badly or try to isolate him and his delegates, except a “blowback”: everything will be on the table then.

  108. Mark Dankof Says:

    My blog on the Baldwin victory and Keyes defeat at Al Bawaba in Amman, Jordan was also discussed on my radio show today with the Republic Broadcasting Network at http://www.republicbroadcasting.org. The 2 hour show may be accessed at the RBN site by going to Show Archives and then to Mark Dankof’s America for April 27th.

  109. Sean Says:

    “What really surprises is me is that Keyes got as many votes as he did after Howard Phillips’ Friday night speech.”

    They were mostly Keyes activists. If you go to the forums of the Keye’s campaign site, you’ll see encouragement of how to be a delegate in the CP. The ones who voted Keyes who weren’t activists stayed w/ the party (e.g. Alaska)

  110. Larry Breazeale,Msgt.(ret.)USAFR Says:

    Here is the local Kansas City news on the subject…they really wrote a very fair observation on the convention results. As follows:

    Sunday, April 27, 2008 Campaign2008 /The Kansas City Star

    SURPRISING NOMINEE VOTE!

    The Constitution party chooses Chuck Baldwin to run for president over GOP-Jumper Alan Keyes… By Steve Kraske, The Kansas City Star

    Meeting in Kansas City on Saturday, the Constitution party tapped talk show host Chuck Baldwin over former ambassador Alan Keyes as its 2008 presidential candidate.
    The pick was seen as something of an upset, given Keyes’ higher national profile. Known for his fiery stemwinders, Keyes is a two-time GOP presidential candidate who abandoned the Republican party this month to join the Constitution party, which stands for limited government and is committed to ending abortion and bringing U.S. troops home from Iraq.

    But Baldwin’s roots in the Constitution party run deeper.He was the party’s 2004 vice-presidential candidate, and party members said his stands were more in line with party thinking.

    Still, the two waged a fierce battle in the days leading up to the vote, described as the most contentious in the party’s 16 year history. Baldwin wound up winning easily, 384 to 126. The Missouri and Kansas delegation basically split their votes between the two.

    “They just rejected the most qualified man to be president”, said Tom Hoefling of Lohrville, Iowa, who is Keyes’ national political director. “Chuck Baldwin will have no impact on this election whatsoever”.

    But Baldwin backers said the party was committed to remaining true to its values and growing itself from the inside. That approach will better sustain the party over the long run, said delegate Thom Holmes of Chandler, Okla., even though Keyes might have drawn more votes.

    In his acceptance speech, Baldwin said his presidency would be committed to halting abortion and illegal immigration, the streamlining of the federal government, the tapping of oil reserves in Alaska that would lead to a return of $1.50 a-gallon gas prices and withdrawl from Iraq.

    Baldwin pledged not only to pull out of the U.N., but also to push the international organization out of the country. He said he would phase out the Internal Revenue Service and end the paying of personeal income taxes. He said the country should return to the gold standard.
    —————————————————————————————————————————-
    To reach Steve Kraske call 816- 234-4312 or send e-mail to:
    skraske@kcstar.com————————————————————————————————————————-

    courtesy of …..........Larry Breazeale, Msgt.(ret.) USAF

    National Veterans Coalition,
    Constitution party…www.nvets.org

  111. Chris Campbell Says:

    Keyes has many nice qualities, but is a Neocon economically and on “war”. Further there was an attempt to pack delegates.I designated 1 man to represent NC, 2 more showed up and I specifically stated as I did not know the other 2 men, nor ever saw $0.01 from them, nor heard from them, they were not to be delegates. None the less, someone on board allowed them and thankfully, they saw the light on Baldwin, which was CP of NC’s pick. Still do not know who over-rode my “no” on the strangers. From what I am hearing, there is a crafted attempt to turn the CP and its platform into Keyes friendly and GOP-lite. AIP now is in a fight to toss out Keyes guerillas led by Mr. Noonan

  112. Chris Campbell Says:

    cannot be a Catholic and a “Trotskyist” BTW

    Mark Dankoff-good to hear from you. I make it a point, generally, not to come on this site anymore, but made an exception today. Will look up show.

  113. richard d beil Says:

    richard beil would like to support chuck baldin with campain signs in his yard. please send me some signs thank you dick beil 6196 s. adams dr. centennial,co. 80121

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