Looking at the contributions made this year, the PAC contributed to the campaigns of Ms. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-FL) and Mr. Tom Allen (D-ME). Both of these representatives are original co-sponsors of the Military Readiness Enhancement Act (HR 1246) which would repeal Don’t ask, Don’t tell and allow gays to serve openly and honestly in the US military.

I don’t disagree with what you say above. Like I said, there are circumstances in extremis where I’d have to either walk away from the LP entirely, or disavow / decline to participate in one or more of its decisions.

But, while I oppose nominating Bob Barr for president, I’m on the opposite side of that teeter-totter from you. You’ve decided that a Barr nomination would cross that line for you, unless you see something to change your mind. I’ve decided that it wouldn’t cross that line for me, unless I see something to change my mind.

Of course, the more I see of, and hear from, Barr the closer to your side of that teeter-totter I move.

May 14th, 2008 at 3:08 am
Andy,

You write:

“I completely disagree with this ‘my party right or wrong’ attitude. If Bob Barr gets the nomination I probably will not vote for him.”

You’re free to disagree with it, and to act on that disagreement.

On the other hand, for me it’s not ‘my party right or wrong.’ It’s ‘my party until and unless it gets so wrong that my conscience will not allow me to treat it as my party any longer.’

The LP’s national nominating convention is, in form, a political caucus—and one of the basic standards of a political caucus is that when you go in, you’re agreeing to be bound by, and support, the outcome after you come out. I can envision circumstances in extremis which might move me to renege on that implicit agreement—but so far, as opposed to a Barr nomination as I am, I don’t regard it as such a circumstance.”

Tom Knapp just made the biggest self destruct of his own credibility since he said that he’d pick John McCain over Ron Paul.

If the Libertarian Party (or more accurately, the Libertarian Party members who chose to show up and be delegates at the 2008 Libertarian Party National Convention in Denver) pick a crappy LP Presidential candidate that I don’t think that anyone is obligated to support them. Say Joe Lieberman showed up at the LP National Convention and somehow captured the LP Presidential nomination. Does this mean that he should automatically get our support?

I was willing to give Bob Barr a chance when I first heard about the possibility of him entering the race, but the more I’ve seen & heard from him the less impressed I am. Barring (pun intended) the possibility of him doing something bold and radical enough to change my mind, I am not likely to vote for him if he gets the nomination.

I do not blindly support any organization, including the Libertarian Party. If the LP has a candidate whom I don’t think is worthy I will still probably vote for Libertarian Party candidates down ticket, but when it comes to the Presidential race I will either leave that part of the ballot blank, do a write in vote (most likely for Ron Paul), or maybe even vote for the candidate of another party (most likely Chuck Baldwin).

2) I find it OUTSTANDING that Rockwell and his thugs are trying to take Barr out at the knees given that they haven’t stopped bitching incessantly about how reason and the Kochtopus betrayed Ron Paul by mentioning “the newsletters.” What happened to the message that we need to support the guy who is going to advance liberty? What about overlooking imperfections?

I guess we’re only meant to overlook things when it has to do with the ugly racism that Rockwell and his gangsters wallow in.

You write:

“I completely disagree with this ‘my party right or wrong’ attitude. If Bob Barr gets the nomination I probably will not vote for him.”

You’re free to disagree with it, and to act on that disagreement.

On the other hand, for me it’s not “my party right or wrong.” It’s “my party until and unless it gets so wrong that my conscience will not allow me to treat it as my party any longer.”

The LP’s national nominating convention is, in form, a political caucus—and one of the basic standards of a political caucus is that when you go in, you’re agreeing to be bound by, and support, the outcome after you come out. I can envision circumstances in extremis which might move me to renege on that implicit agreement—but so far, as opposed to a Barr nomination as I am, I don’t regard it as such a circumstance.

May 14th, 2008 at 12:18 am
Andy,

You write:

“This sounds like the attitude of a ‘yellow dog’ Democrat.”

Well, yeah.

My intention, after my short experiment with going back to try ‘working within a major party’ a few years ago, is to remain a loyal partisan Libertarian henceforth. I won’t be leaving my party because I believe that its presidential nominee is substandard. I’ll just fight harder next time to keep it from making the same mistake again.

What else would you expect from someone who’s been patiently explaining to you for the last year why he’d vote for a yellow dog before he’d vote for Ron Paul?”

I completely disagree with this “my party right or wrong” attitude. If Bob Barr gets the nomination I probably will not vote for him.

You write:

“This sounds like the attitude of a ‘yellow dog’ Democrat.”

Well, yeah.

My intention, after my short experiment with going back to try “working within a major party” a few years ago, is to remain a loyal partisan Libertarian henceforth. I won’t be leaving my party because I believe that its presidential nominee is substandard. I’ll just fight harder next time to keep it from making the same mistake again.

What else would you expect from someone who’s been patiently explaining to you for the last year why he’d vote for a yellow dog before he’d vote for Ron Paul?

May 13th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
Will I vote for Barr if he’s the nominee? Almost certainly. He’d have to really work hard to put me off so much that I wouldn’t do that.

– His current policy positions, as extensively covered in the media and documented in his public statements and writings since becoming a member of the LP, and even since accepting a seat on its national committee, are not particularly libertarian. I’m not talking ‘radical’ libertarian, I’m talking libertarian in any meaningful sense at all.”

If you don’t think that Barr’s policy positions are libertarian why in the hell would you “almost certainly” vote for him? This sounds like the attitude of a “yellow dog” Democrat.

Email me if you want juicy details.

I have asked disinter to send me the details, but he apparently has none.

I assume he will now make additional posts quoting himself and continue to provide no backup for his claims.

I used to respect disinter’s comments, but he appears to be just another Joe McCarthy.

That said, we also need to be careful of ideological stagnation. Abandoning libertarianism is one thing, and it’s a very bad thing. Sticking to the same ideas, talking points, and soundbites for 30 years is probably not the best idea either, though. What this means is not redefining libertarianism. The fact is, it’s quite well defined already, and a lot of thought has been put into defining it well. What it does mean is finding new ways to implement libertarianism, both in the context of advocacy and helping people to understand libertarianism, and in the context of creating plans which voters can sink their teeth into and understand, to be put forward by libertarian candidates.

One of our historical strongpoints is ideology. We’re right, goshdarnit. And a fair number of people want to go where we want to go. I would go so far as to fathom that a truly tremendous number of people want to at least go in the same direction that we want to go, even though how far varies widely, and some may not want to go far at all. We’ve got one terrible weakpoint, though, and that is explaining how we’re going to get there. We need plans and ideas, above and beyond simple and coherent ideology. We need to explain how we can turn this train around without jumping the tracks and killing half of them. That’s the other half of the macro-level battle we have to fight, and the half we’ve not done well at yet.