This really is the salient point. I was involved in the LP in 88 because of Ron Paul. I quickly left because the party was obviously not serious about actually winning elections and affecting real change. The reality is that the LP is not a political party. It’s a social club or a debating society—someone recently said that it was more like a church that provides a sort of sanctuary for the true believers.

I am paying attention again 20 years later because of Barr. I was never a huge fan of his when he was in Congress, although in all fairness he was probably among the best Republicans in the House on a bunch of issues. On other issues, he was very bad. However, after 9/11 he started to change. The GOP as a party changed after 9/11 as well, but in the wrong way.

Back to your question to the faithful—some people believe it’s more important to be “right” than to get things done. That’s why LP Presidential candidates have struggled to get even half of the votes that Ed Clark won in 1980.

“Red Phillips- I agree with you about conservatives and Baldwin. Who would you recommend libertarians support? (I am not trying to be cute here.)”

Not Ruwart, because the country is not ready for an anarchist standard bearer, and I believe as a system of thought it is hopelessly blinded by its own ideology. Not Barr or Root, because neither is sound on the War and foreign policy. I don’t agree with them on everything, but I actually thought both Browne and Badnarik were pretty unobjectionable from a rightist perspective. (Other than abortion, of course.) Someone in that mold. Stressing constitutionalism in addition to pure libertarian theory. Whoever the nominee is needs to avoid the appearance of being a libertine and should be respectful of tradition, religion, etc. This is what makes Lew Rockwell tolerable to rightists but usually Reason is not.

Who fits that mold?

Also, the casual tossing around of the r word (racism) drives me nuts. VDARE is not racist. Please show me one thing they have ever published that indicates overt hate. Or is racism something other than hate? Is it any hint of unegalitarian wrong think? That’s what it seems some of the PC line towers believe. VDARE, for example, is concerned about demographic change. Is that racist? If someone thinks it is then he has clearly drunk the PC Kool-Aid. I think a lot of people throw around the r word just to prove to others they aren’t. It gets SOOO old.

If the person is a politically aware D or R, they will often tempt to discredit the LP as some nutty fringe group. To me that is evidence that we have something they are afraid of: they know our basic principle of live-and-let-live is attractive to a lot of people so they have to make us look like extremists to try and keep people away.

If the person is not politically aware, it more often goes something like this:

“Oh, you’re a libertarian! I used to have a card, but I buy most of my books now from Amazon.com.”

From his remarks, I saw no evidence that he did anything
wrong. He didn’t describe his door-to-door regime. I
imagine he handed out a brochure, introduced himself, and
said something about the specific policies he would promote
in the state legislature. However, somewhere in this approach,
he states his partisan affiliation. Perhaps it is on his brochure.
Perhaps he mentions it.

Anyway, he states that upon hearing Libertarian, a least one
time a day, someone tells him that Libertarians support, and then
something they don’t like that is highly unpopular from the platform, (though perhaps garbled.)

So, perhaps a voter says, “Libertarian? you all like child pornography.”
While I realize that people whose political experience is limited to name
calling on the internet might think that the proper response is to get
all huffy and call the voter dishonest for taking things out of context,
this isn’t what a candidate needs to be doing.

Those of us who actually go door to door and speak to voters would
prefer to not ever have that sort of situation come up.

If it is not something that we want to bring before the voters now,
it should not be in the platform. If you don’t think getting the
proper relationship between children, parents, and adults is something
that needs to be fixed now, and that it is so important that we need to be
campaigning on it, then why have it in the platform?

(Because we want to have our vision of libertopia outlined in the platform,
and how children relate to adjusts is part of life, and it must be resolved
in the best libertarian way. You see, I put no value on this activity.)

Anyway, I gave out about 7,500 peices of literature in 2000. Most of
those were door-to-door. Usually, I manage to talk to about 50% of
the households. (Leaving the literature at the other 50% because no
one is home or answers the door.)

Generally, I would hit one person a day who was a Libertarian. I ran
into many more who knew of the Libertarian Party. I recollect a good
number of people who would get a kind of “smirky” look on their face.

Most people would take my brochure, listen to my speil, and that would
be it. But I have always been bad at “will you vote for me?” And never
would go on to, “No? Why not?”

Frankly, I don’t remember anyone bringing up extremist stuff. What?
You are a libertarian? Don’t you believe in ….. Perhaps… But,
if they did, I would say, no, I don’t believe in…. Or, maybe.. I think
we should… and then give my position.

I think anyone who believes that our candidates should all be able to
discuss hardcore libertarian theory like Ruwart before they go door to
door, is crazy.

I will note, however, that when I have gone door-to-door without the
LP name (for nonpartisan town council and school board positions)
people respond much better. They ask questions about me and
my positions. Share their opinions, and so on. So, there is something
about the LP label that is a turn off to many people.

I covered much more ground as a partisan LP candidate than as a
nonpartisan candidate. (Door-to-door as an incumbent is horribly
slow. Come on in… let me chat with you for 1/2 hour. I have never
been very good about saying, sorry, I have got to cover 50 houses this
evening…)

Anyway, I think we should take very seriously the testimony of
our frontline candidates. Nearly all of my experience is nonpartisan.
But I have great respect for those who are willing to campaign hard
for a partisan LP seat.

If you are not going door-to-door and talking with the voters… you
are not campaigning hard.

Hogarth’s ugly remarks to Ferguson proves to me that she is unsuitable
for any party office.

Less Likely. However, by nominating Barr, the Libertarian Party would lose the possibility of nominating Democratic voters (name recognition is almost entirely on the GOP side; Democrats are of course highly familiar with the Green Party). There are a large number of socially liberal and anti-war Democrats who basically have no strong economic ideology (because they don’t understand economic issues). I was among them until a few years ago. These Democrats are younger and therefore realize just how bigoted and discriminatory age-of-consent laws are (I’m 18). They also don’t compromise on Iraq or Iran and tend to support granting immigrants their basic human rights. Nominating Barr might strengthen the LP’s appeal to the authoritarians on the right, but it would destroy any potential appeal to the anti-authoritarian side (the left). To send a 17-year-old honor-roll student to jail for 10 years for having consensual oral sex with a 15-year-old is so disgusting and so morally bankrupt that only a right-winger would think of it.

I recommend libertarians support Ruwart. Conservatives can fuck-off.

YES! YES! YES! WE WANT MARY! WE WANT MARY!

..g brian and susan are right about ‘the platform,’ doony…and it appears most republicrats are functionally illiterate anyway..(btw, it appears your reading/comprehension skills could stand lots of improvement too!) ;o)

FLASH****EXCITING NEW FEATURE***
FOR YOUR ENJOYMENT****”CLARK’S MONEY TIDBITS”..

Hello, Republicrats! Today, a little ditty about ‘dollars’..apparently, once upon a time people referred to ‘DOLLARS’ OF GOLD AND SILVER in the same sense as modern Republicrat peckerheads refer to ‘OUNCES’ OF MARIJUANA, ‘POUNDS’ OF CAKE, ‘QUARTS’ OF BEER, etc..

...but somehow, somewhere, Republicrats have been duped, for example, into using the phrase ‘SILVER DOLLAR’..attributing to a term of measurement (‘DOLLAR’) the faculty of being an entity!

It is as if you Republicrats consume ‘MARIJUANA OUNCES,’ ‘BEER QUARTS,’ ‘CAKE POUNDS’ etc!.. (this money tidbit brought to you by CLARK)

“Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the Earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear, and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But if you wish to remain the slaves of Bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create deposits.” – (attributed to Sir Josiah Stamp, President of the Bank of England in the 1920’s)

Which one liner is that?

I would suggest that if your goal is to recruit new members, the image of the LP needs to be changed more than the platform. An acquaintance of mine, very active in local Democratic politics, one told me,”Libertarianism is a nice philosophy, but most of us have to live in the real world.” We talked a little more and he is thoroughly convince that libertarianism and the LP are a waste of time because it simply won’t work. Get people to believe that it will work and they will begin taking the LP seriously. And part of getting it to work is to get candidates successfully elected to office, or at least to make a decent showing.

That’s exactly my point, some of the folks making comments here have raised legitimate points regarding whether or not Mr. Barr would be an accurate representation of the LP, but many others spin their arguments on petty points like this.

Fewer words, Better. Even that one liner that someone was pushing.

Remember it is not a persons own free choice and opinion on any particular liberty it is how they allow others to indulge in it as long as it does not interfere with others. Remember we need to protect the vises not get each other fighting about them. Go out and shoot your guns, hunt and fish, smoke your cigarette, smoke your dope, home school your children, chose your own doctor, burn wood, watch porn on the internet, be gay, have a puppet show in public or do what you want withought having the fear of being turned into a criminal.

Speak your mind if you dare and if you still have the guts to!

donnie, stop the whining, and the fibbing. only in your dreams is the general voter reading the lp platform!