Comments on: Mary Ruwart’s Chat with Rocky Mountain News http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/ Sat, 06 Sep 2008 19:47:23 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1.3 by: Alex Peak http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-617151 Sat, 24 May 2008 20:51:03 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-617151 Mr. Holtz, Ron Paul is absolutely a radical. Why do I say this? Because he is a libertarian, and all libertarians are radicals. Libertarianism is definably a radical political ideology. Sure, he may deviate from the libertarian position on immigration and abortion, but that in itself does not prevent him from being a libertarian. And as long as he remains a libertarian, he will by definition remain a radical. Mr. Dondero, Where do I begin? You write, "NeoCon means PRO-LIFE religious right." Actually, "religious right" means "religious right." Neoconservatism has absolutely <i>nothing</i> to do with the religious right. The term "neoconservative" is used to <i>distinguish</i> the secularist, rabidly pro-democracy, pro-interventionist right <i>from</i> the religious right. Neoconservatism poses no position on abortion, although neoconservatives rarely have much of a problem making alliances with the religious right for their shared goals. Neoconservatism emerged out of the American "left," as it began to reject some of the more libertarian qualities of the "left" in favour of more central planning. It did not give up its utopian "leftist" positions, which is why it believes it can remake the world in the image of America through militaristic interventionism. Rabid support for democraticisation, even through arms, is the distinguishing characteristic of neoconservatism. You claim, "It is utterly impossible to be a NeoCon and be Pro-Choice." It is not impossible for neoconservatism to be pro-choice. I would in fact expect most neoconservatives to be precisely that. It's not even impossible for those on the religious right to be pro-choice, although it is much less likely for such persons to hold such a position. You state, "NeoCons wish to use the power of government to enforce morality, kind of like Ron Paul wanting to regulate women’s reproductive rights with the power of the State." Ron Paul is a member of the "Old Right," in other words a classical liberal who works within the Republican Party and promotes traditionalism insofar as it aligns with classical liberalism. Because of this, Ron Paul is strictly opposed to interventionist militarism, and therefore cannot be a neoconservative. Moreover, unlike the neoconservatives, Ron Paul does not worship democracy. Ron Paul <i>does</i> deviate from the purist Randian/Rothbardian libertarian position when it comes to abortion. Whereas Rand and Rothbard held that it was acceptable to evict humans from one's womb, Ron Paul holds a more traditionalist conservative position on that issue. Since neoconservatism has only tenuous ties to traditional conservatism, you'd be more accurate to label this deviation as conservative rather than neoconservative. As to other statements you made, I must make it clear that Kubby is not an anarchist by any stretch of the definition, since Kubby supports a constitutionally-limited government like Badnarik. Moreover, only extremists would ever even consider supporting McCain (or Clinton, or Obama). Sincerely, Alex Peak Mr. Holtz,

Ron Paul is absolutely a radical. Why do I say this? Because he is a libertarian, and all libertarians are radicals. Libertarianism is definably a radical political ideology.

Sure, he may deviate from the libertarian position on immigration and abortion, but that in itself does not prevent him from being a libertarian. And as long as he remains a libertarian, he will by definition remain a radical.

Mr. Dondero,

Where do I begin?

You write, “NeoCon means PRO-LIFE religious right.”

Actually, “religious right” means “religious right.” Neoconservatism has absolutely nothing to do with the religious right. The term “neoconservative” is used to distinguish the secularist, rabidly pro-democracy, pro-interventionist right from the religious right. Neoconservatism poses no position on abortion, although neoconservatives rarely have much of a problem making alliances with the religious right for their shared goals.

Neoconservatism emerged out of the American “left,” as it began to reject some of the more libertarian qualities of the “left” in favour of more central planning. It did not give up its utopian “leftist” positions, which is why it believes it can remake the world in the image of America through militaristic interventionism.

Rabid support for democraticisation, even through arms, is the distinguishing characteristic of neoconservatism.

You claim, “It is utterly impossible to be a NeoCon and be Pro-Choice.”

It is not impossible for neoconservatism to be pro-choice. I would in fact expect most neoconservatives to be precisely that.

It’s not even impossible for those on the religious right to be pro-choice, although it is much less likely for such persons to hold such a position.

You state, “NeoCons wish to use the power of government to enforce morality, kind of like Ron Paul wanting to regulate women’s reproductive rights with the power of the State.”

Ron Paul is a member of the “Old Right,” in other words a classical liberal who works within the Republican Party and promotes traditionalism insofar as it aligns with classical liberalism.

Because of this, Ron Paul is strictly opposed to interventionist militarism, and therefore cannot be a neoconservative. Moreover, unlike the neoconservatives, Ron Paul does not worship democracy.

Ron Paul does deviate from the purist Randian/Rothbardian libertarian position when it comes to abortion. Whereas Rand and Rothbard held that it was acceptable to evict humans from one’s womb, Ron Paul holds a more traditionalist conservative position on that issue. Since neoconservatism has only tenuous ties to traditional conservatism, you’d be more accurate to label this deviation as conservative rather than neoconservative.

As to other statements you made, I must make it clear that Kubby is not an anarchist by any stretch of the definition, since Kubby supports a constitutionally-limited government like Badnarik. Moreover, only extremists would ever even consider supporting McCain (or Clinton, or Obama).

Sincerely,
Alex Peak

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by: lee brenn http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-615229 Fri, 23 May 2008 15:56:03 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-615229 DONDEERRRROOOOOOOOO! Anyways, I'd wager that "Mark Scrib" is a combination of Mark Selzer and Doug Scribner of The Libertarian Alternative. DONDEERRRROOOOOOOOO!

Anyways, I’d wager that “Mark Scrib” is a combination of Mark Selzer and Doug Scribner of The Libertarian Alternative.

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by: Thomas M. Sipos http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-612887 Wed, 21 May 2008 13:03:58 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-612887 Dumbdildo: <i>"NeoCon means PRO-LIFE religious right. It is utterly impossible to be a NeoCon and be Pro-Choice. NeoCons wish to use the power of government to enforce morality,"</i> Still lying, I see. The term Neoconservative was coined by Irving Kristol in his 1986 book, <a HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0465068731/communistvampire" rel="nofollow">Reflections of a Neoconservative</a>. They're chiefly concerned with foreign policy, and are mostly pro-choice on abortion. You know this. But you lie about it. You lie about it shamelessly. And when you're confronted with it (as I confronted you with Kristol's book a couple of weeks ago), you run and hide. Then reappear later to lie about it again. Dumbdildo: “NeoCon means PRO-LIFE religious right. It is utterly impossible to be a NeoCon and be Pro-Choice. NeoCons wish to use the power of government to enforce morality,”

Still lying, I see.

The term Neoconservative was coined by Irving Kristol in his 1986 book, Reflections of a Neoconservative.

They’re chiefly concerned with foreign policy, and are mostly pro-choice on abortion.

You know this. But you lie about it. You lie about it shamelessly. And when you’re confronted with it (as I confronted you with Kristol’s book a couple of weeks ago), you run and hide. Then reappear later to lie about it again.

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by: MARY/NAMBLA '08 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-612777 Wed, 21 May 2008 08:58:21 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-612777 # Kenny Says: May 20th, 2008 at 4:37 pm Barbara Howe, Chair of North Carolina LP, endorses Ruwart. http://www.votemary2008.com/node/87 Why is there is no report here? WHY? WHY? WHY? WE WANT MARY! WE WANT MARY!
  • Kenny Says:
    May 20th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
  • Barbara Howe, Chair of North Carolina LP, endorses Ruwart.

    http://www.votemary2008.com/node/87

    Why is there is no report here?

    WHY? WHY? WHY? WE WANT MARY! WE WANT MARY!

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    by: MARY/NAMBLA '08 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-612773 Wed, 21 May 2008 08:54:06 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-612773 # Kenny Says: May 20th, 2008 at 10:15 am Note the critical tone of the TPW commentary. The bias of the new controller. Get lost Cory! WE AGREE! SCREW CORY! SCREW CORY! WE WANT MARY! WE WANT MARY!
  • Kenny Says:
    May 20th, 2008 at 10:15 am
  • Note the critical tone of the TPW commentary. The bias of the new controller. Get lost Cory!

    WE AGREE! SCREW CORY! SCREW CORY! WE WANT MARY! WE WANT MARY!

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    by: Kenny http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-612750 Wed, 21 May 2008 08:22:05 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-612750 BTW, Dumbdero, did not you not read Kubby's piece on this site where he says that he is not an anarchist? You really a prize fucking asshole. BTW, Dumbdero, did not you not read Kubby’s piece on this site where he says that he is not an anarchist? You really a prize fucking asshole.

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    by: Kenny http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-612748 Wed, 21 May 2008 08:20:16 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-612748 The biggest negative about Ron Paul is that he was stupid enough to employ Dumbdero Rittberg. The biggest negative about Ron Paul is that he was stupid enough to employ Dumbdero Rittberg.

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    by: FreeMarketPlusPlus http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-612713 Wed, 21 May 2008 07:21:42 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-612713 "Anarchist like Ruwart or Kubby, than a massive number of libertarians will bolt to the Republicans and John McCain." And that would be a bad thing? Sounds like it would help the Libertarian Party stay true to it's roots. “Anarchist like Ruwart or Kubby, than a massive number of libertarians will bolt to the Republicans and John McCain.”

    And that would be a bad thing? Sounds like it would help the Libertarian Party stay true to it’s roots.

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    by: Stefan http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-612638 Wed, 21 May 2008 05:35:20 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-612638 Nope Eric, if the likes of Kubby, Phillies or Root are nominated, many pro-life libertarians may join Constitutionalists and disaffected Republicans and Democrats will vote for Baldwin and the CP may well perform much better than the LP. Baldwin is not so known of course, but has a radio station and can perform quite well with enough money and his platform is quite libertarian with a few exceptions. He is probably their best candidate in years. Nope Eric, if the likes of Kubby, Phillies or Root are nominated, many pro-life libertarians may join Constitutionalists and disaffected Republicans and Democrats will vote for Baldwin and the CP may well perform much better than the LP. Baldwin is not so known of course, but has a radio station and can perform quite well with enough money and his platform is quite libertarian with a few exceptions. He is probably their best candidate in years.

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    by: Stefan http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-612624 Wed, 21 May 2008 05:10:49 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-612624 Excellent explanation of what and who neocons are: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4df1soW7Dho Excellent explanation of what and who neocons are:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4df1soW7Dho

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    by: Ayn R. Key http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-612580 Wed, 21 May 2008 03:50:58 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-612580 Dumbdero, Neocon is not the same as Religious Right. There are more types of authoritarians than simply Neocons. Someone can be pro-choice and still be an authoritarian. You agreed that Hillary Clinton is pro-choice and an authoritarian. Dumbdero,

    Neocon is not the same as Religious Right.

    There are more types of authoritarians than simply Neocons.

    Someone can be pro-choice and still be an authoritarian. You agreed that Hillary Clinton is pro-choice and an authoritarian.

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    by: Hugh Jass http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-612566 Wed, 21 May 2008 03:32:06 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-612566 "Funny, I always thought that those who supported Liberty and opposed Tyrany, particularly Religious Extremist Tyrany were called “libertarians.” " It is a contradiction in terms to support both liberty and the patriot act. "NeoCon means PRO-LIFE religious right. It is utterly impossible to be a NeoCon and be Pro-Choice. NeoCons wish to use the power of government to enforce morality, kind of like Ron Paul wanting to regulate women’s reproductive rights with the power of the State." Oh god, back to square one. Since you appear ignorant of what a neocon is, how 'bout we turn to wikipedia as a resource? Neoconservatism emphasizes foreign policy as the paramount responsibility of government, maintaining that America's role as the world's sole superpower is indispensable to establishing and maintaining global order. Hmmm...nothing about pro-life in their. In fact, it sounds just like your philosophy. "And if the Libertarian Party screws it up in Denver by nominating an extremist Anarchist like Ruwart or Kubby, than a massive number of libertarians will bolt to the Republicans and John McCain. There’s already a Libertarians for McCain effort going on. If Denver results in a disaster, watch LFM triple in size overnight." Somehow I get the feeling that these Pro-McCain "libertarians" weren't too friendly with the philosophy to begin with. “Funny, I always thought that those who supported Liberty and opposed Tyrany, particularly Religious Extremist Tyrany were called “libertarians.” ”

    It is a contradiction in terms to support both liberty and the patriot act.

    “NeoCon means PRO-LIFE religious right. It is utterly impossible to be a NeoCon and be Pro-Choice. NeoCons wish to use the power of government to enforce morality, kind of like Ron Paul wanting to regulate women’s reproductive rights with the power of the State.”

    Oh god, back to square one. Since you appear ignorant of what a neocon is, how ‘bout we turn to wikipedia as a resource?

    Neoconservatism emphasizes foreign policy as the paramount responsibility of government, maintaining that America’s role as the world’s sole superpower is indispensable to establishing and maintaining global order.

    Hmmm…nothing about pro-life in their. In fact, it sounds just like your philosophy.

    “And if the Libertarian Party screws it up in Denver by nominating an extremist Anarchist like Ruwart or Kubby, than a massive number of libertarians will bolt to the Republicans and John McCain.

    There’s already a Libertarians for McCain effort going on. If Denver results in a disaster, watch LFM triple in size overnight.”

    Somehow I get the feeling that these Pro-McCain “libertarians” weren’t too friendly with the philosophy to begin with.

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    by: Eric Dondero http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-612547 Wed, 21 May 2008 03:02:35 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-612547 Scott gets it right on something: Yes there are "other choices come November." And if the Libertarian Party screws it up in Denver by nominating an extremist Anarchist like Ruwart or Kubby, than a massive number of libertarians will bolt to the Republicans and John McCain. There's already a Libertarians for McCain effort going on. If Denver results in a disaster, watch LFM triple in size overnight. Scott gets it right on something: Yes there are “other choices come November.”

    And if the Libertarian Party screws it up in Denver by nominating an extremist Anarchist like Ruwart or Kubby, than a massive number of libertarians will bolt to the Republicans and John McCain.

    There’s already a Libertarians for McCain effort going on. If Denver results in a disaster, watch LFM triple in size overnight.

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    by: Eric Dondero http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-612545 Wed, 21 May 2008 03:00:03 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-612545 Hey Scott, could you kindly explain to us how it is that someone like Wayne Root who is hardcore Pro-Choice can be called a "NeoCon"? NeoCon means PRO-LIFE religious right. It is utterly impossible to be a NeoCon and be Pro-Choice. NeoCons wish to use the power of government to enforce morality, kind of like Ron Paul wanting to regulate women's reproductive rights with the power of the State. Hey Scott, could you kindly explain to us how it is that someone like Wayne Root who is hardcore Pro-Choice can be called a “NeoCon”?

    NeoCon means PRO-LIFE religious right. It is utterly impossible to be a NeoCon and be Pro-Choice. NeoCons wish to use the power of government to enforce morality, kind of like Ron Paul wanting to regulate women’s reproductive rights with the power of the State.

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    by: Eric Dondero http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-612541 Wed, 21 May 2008 02:57:35 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/20/mary-ruwarts-chat-with-rocky-mountain-news/#comment-612541 Hmmn, interesting. So now, according to the Rocky Mountain News if one opposes Islamo-Fascism they are a "NeoCon." Funny, I always thought that those who supported Liberty and opposed Tyrany, particularly Religious Extremist Tyrany were called "libertarians." Hmmn, interesting. So now, according to the Rocky Mountain News if one opposes Islamo-Fascism they are a “NeoCon.”

    Funny, I always thought that those who supported Liberty and opposed Tyrany, particularly Religious Extremist Tyrany were called “libertarians.”

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