Comments on: LP Nominates Barr/Root, Chooses Officers http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/ Sat, 22 Nov 2008 02:20:29 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1.3 by: Michael Seebeck http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-627047 Sun, 01 Jun 2008 05:11:54 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-627047 Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus was the biggest opportunist fraud in religious history. Barr's similar conversion has its parallels, so of course I tend to be highly suspicious. Way too much baggage which just tossed the disaffected left vote away. Redpath, he doesn't know how to run a meeting. That was pretty apparent all weekend, what with it being impossible to hear a lot of things from him letting the side conversations go on. Not to mention his selective hearing on division calls from the floor and his blatant ignoring the Orders of the Day on Sunday. Paul’s conversion on the road to Damascus was the biggest opportunist fraud in religious history.

Barr’s similar conversion has its parallels, so of course I tend to be highly suspicious. Way too much baggage which just tossed the disaffected left vote away.

Redpath, he doesn’t know how to run a meeting. That was pretty apparent all weekend, what with it being impossible to hear a lot of things from him letting the side conversations go on. Not to mention his selective hearing on division calls from the floor and his blatant ignoring the Orders of the Day on Sunday.

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by: ralph http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-622301 Wed, 28 May 2008 23:51:14 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-622301 "Lets not forget that just 4 years ago we nominated the hard core, bad to the bone libertarian; the guy who refused to carry a drivers license. How well did that work for us?" The latest BS 1984 propaganda from Viguerie's TPW and his pet LRC. Badnarik was a right-wing constitutional conservative and LRC supporter known for his rants against anarchists, wiccans and atheists on his Presidential website. He seemed more interested in bashing 'purists' than running a candidacy. This is as nutty as West's attempts to portray Dasbach as an anarchist failure. Moulton lost for a good r4eason: people despised his rants againsst Nolan as a 'ranter' and worse, and it got around the Convention, along with his broken promise to get the LP minutes and other documents back on the website. Now he wants to play economist and screw us up on the intellectual field as a 'Libertarian' economist, I bet. 4 more years of financial corruption, attacks on local activists, vanishing memberships, non-functional d-bases, LRC thugs disrupting local meetings, phony ballot signatures, and re-writing the minutes, and doing everything they can to keep Libertarians from being elected or appointed, I suspect. “Lets not forget that just 4 years ago we nominated the hard core, bad to the bone libertarian; the guy who refused to carry a drivers license. How well did that work for us?”

The latest BS 1984 propaganda from Viguerie’s TPW and his pet LRC.

Badnarik was a right-wing constitutional conservative and LRC supporter known for his rants against anarchists, wiccans and atheists on his Presidential website. He seemed more interested in bashing ‘purists’ than running a candidacy.

This is as nutty as West’s attempts to portray Dasbach as an anarchist failure.

Moulton lost for a good r4eason: people despised his rants againsst Nolan as a ‘ranter’ and worse, and it got around the Convention, along with his broken promise to get the LP minutes and other documents back on the website. Now he wants to play economist and screw us up on the intellectual field as a ‘Libertarian’ economist, I bet.

4 more years of financial corruption, attacks on local activists, vanishing memberships, non-functional d-bases, LRC thugs disrupting local meetings, phony ballot signatures, and re-writing the minutes, and doing everything they can to keep Libertarians from being elected or appointed, I suspect.

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by: Daniel Mosier http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-622206 Wed, 28 May 2008 22:17:46 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-622206 All those gleeful about Barr's greater name recognition and believing that LP vote totals will be enormously greater for that reason appear oblivious to the fact his name recognition often stems from unpopular stands. Most people would recall him as a GOP pitbull during the Clinton impeachment for which they are hardly likely to appreciate him. Otherwise, he's mostly known for his hardcore right-wing stands: anti drug, anti gay marraige. Americans seem to be waking up to the threat the Bush regime poses to civil liberties and here to they see Barr voting with Bush. Unlike Ron Paul, Barr has lost the support of the LP libertarians and is scorned by Democrats. Those LP sell outs who traded liberty in favor of the promise of more votes deserve neither - and neither is what they are likely to get. All those gleeful about Barr’s greater name recognition and believing that LP vote totals will be enormously greater for that reason appear oblivious to the fact his name recognition often stems from unpopular stands. Most people would recall him as a GOP pitbull during the Clinton impeachment for which they are hardly likely to appreciate him. Otherwise, he’s mostly known for his hardcore right-wing stands: anti drug, anti gay marraige. Americans seem to be waking up to the threat the Bush regime poses to civil liberties and here to they see Barr voting with Bush. Unlike Ron Paul, Barr has lost the support of the LP libertarians and is scorned by Democrats. Those LP sell outs who traded liberty in favor of the promise of more votes deserve neither – and neither is what they are likely to get.

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by: Dan Fitzgerald http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-621915 Wed, 28 May 2008 17:06:07 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-621915 Interesting. I'm among those who started showing up at local Republican events in support of Ron Paul. I saw the resistance - Saul Anunzis, Ed Faillor, Faux news, etc. As I return, I'm bringing as many as I can with me. For years, Republicans have been begging us to join with them rather than be "spoilers", because "we're for limited government". When I actually came over, the reception was less than heartwarming ;). So... with a base of around 1%, aren't we in the business of converting people? Haven't we been asking people like Barr to come over & see the light? I admit that it's hard for me to trust him, but if it gets more people to hear what we're selling & check us out, it's worth a shot. Remember Santayana's definition of insanity - this would be trying something different. I don't know the exact value of Bob Barr's name recognition, but I'd bet it was well into the millions, if not tens of millions. Think of how much it would cost to make Dr. Ruwart as well known as Bob Barr. We would not have funded her that well, although we certainly should. So, I think nominating Barr will be a solid plus for us, but I also admit that this is the first time we'll have a candidate about whom I won't be proudly informing my friends. I'll petition for him in Virginia, and I'll send him a few hundred dollars, but I won't be as proud of our candidate as I would have been had it been Ruwart or Kubby. Interesting. I’m among those who started showing up at local Republican events in support of Ron Paul. I saw the resistance – Saul Anunzis, Ed Faillor, Faux news, etc. As I return, I’m bringing as many as I can with me. For years, Republicans have been begging us to join with them rather than be “spoilers”, because “we’re for limited government”. When I actually came over, the reception was less than heartwarming ;) .

So… with a base of around 1%, aren’t we in the business of converting people? Haven’t we been asking people like Barr to come over & see the light? I admit that it’s hard for me to trust him, but if it gets more people to hear what we’re selling & check us out, it’s worth a shot. Remember Santayana’s definition of insanity – this would be trying something different. I don’t know the exact value of Bob Barr’s name recognition, but I’d bet it was well into the millions, if not tens of millions. Think of how much it would cost to make Dr. Ruwart as well known as Bob Barr. We would not have funded her that well, although we certainly should.

So, I think nominating Barr will be a solid plus for us, but I also admit that this is the first time we’ll have a candidate about whom I won’t be proudly informing my friends. I’ll petition for him in Virginia, and I’ll send him a few hundred dollars, but I won’t be as proud of our candidate as I would have been had it been Ruwart or Kubby.

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by: disinter http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-621414 Wed, 28 May 2008 06:02:49 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-621414 Stewart Flood cries: <blockquote>I was extremely disappointed...</blockquote> That's nice Stewie. A lot of us are disappointed in you: http://disinter.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/lnc-further-marginalizes-itself/ Stewart Flood cries:

I was extremely disappointed…

That’s nice Stewie. A lot of us are disappointed in you:

http://disinter.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/lnc-further-marginalizes-itself/

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by: Ayn R. Key http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-621379 Wed, 28 May 2008 05:37:34 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-621379 Keith, If only Barr would respond to questions from the other side, instead of ducking them and only talking to and with the Reform Caucus, then you words would be wise words. But we cannot encourage in a more libertarian direction anyone who refuses to talk to us the was Barr and WAR do. Keith,

If only Barr would respond to questions from the other side, instead of ducking them and only talking to and with the Reform Caucus, then you words would be wise words. But we cannot encourage in a more libertarian direction anyone who refuses to talk to us the was Barr and WAR do.

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by: Keith Deschler http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-621268 Wed, 28 May 2008 01:57:31 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-621268 "and Saul was there, giving approval to his (Stephen's) death"..(Acts 8:1). Sounds a lot like the pre-Libertarian, paleo-conservative Bob Barr. I agree with those who can see clear evidence of the dramatic changes on the issues for BOTH Barr and Root. There may well be some degree of pandering and positioning by both these men, to "aim to please" the restless natives in Denver. However, they wouldn't have come over to a third party that has never gotten more than 1.1% of the presidential vote (once) if they wanted an easy route to winning an election! There HAD to be some heartfelt conviction that the "power party" that they were active, dedicated members of for many years had gone astray from its smaller government reputation, and was not returing to it. The "purists" should remind themselves that most of them were a LONG ways off from constitutional minarchy, objectivism, or anarcho-capitalism. The majority of them probably were some type of Marxist or socialist liberal, before they "saw the light" on the Damascus road to liberty. They need to encourage and help Barr/Root, along with other recent converts to the cause, to continue learning why liberty works much better than statist coercion and control, even in those areas that are more difficult to understand (such as social issues like drugs and marriage). The positions taken by Barr are not incompatible with the mainstream Libertarian positions. They are baby steps in the direction that we all want to go, and are much easier for a skeptical, uninformed public to swallow. The broad themes of less government, lower taxes, more consumer choice in education and health care, less intervention overseas, greater local/state control, medical marijuana, and fewer regulations will resonate with a broad range of voters, just like it did with Ron Paul. Barr/ Root should do much better than the usual obscure, hard-core pablum pukers who have mainly been a footnote in American electoral history, with little interest created among even sympathetic independents or non-voters. I will be replacing my Ron Paul bumper sticker as soon as I can get a Barr/Root one. Hope that Ruwart and the "purists" realize that libertopia is not an option now, but moving in that direction is very achievable with this ticket and platform. “and Saul was there, giving approval to his (Stephen’s) death”..(Acts 8:1). Sounds a lot like the pre-Libertarian, paleo-conservative Bob Barr. I agree with those who can see clear evidence of the dramatic changes on the issues for BOTH Barr and Root. There may well be some degree of pandering and positioning by both these men, to “aim to please” the restless natives in Denver. However, they wouldn’t have come over to a third party that has never gotten more than 1.1% of the presidential vote (once) if they wanted an easy route to winning an election! There HAD to be some heartfelt conviction that the “power party” that they were active, dedicated members of for many years had gone astray from its smaller government reputation, and was not returing to it. The “purists” should remind themselves that most of them were a LONG ways off from constitutional minarchy, objectivism, or anarcho-capitalism. The majority of them probably were some type of Marxist or socialist liberal, before they “saw the light” on the Damascus road to liberty. They need to encourage and help Barr/Root, along with other recent converts to the cause, to continue learning why liberty works much better than statist coercion and control, even in those areas that are more difficult to understand (such as social issues like drugs and marriage). The positions taken by Barr are not incompatible with the mainstream Libertarian positions. They are baby steps in the direction that we all want to go, and are much easier for a skeptical, uninformed public to swallow. The broad themes of less government, lower taxes, more consumer choice in education and health care, less intervention overseas, greater local/state control, medical marijuana, and fewer regulations will resonate with a broad range of voters, just like it did with Ron Paul. Barr/ Root should do much better than the usual obscure, hard-core pablum pukers who have mainly been a footnote in American electoral history, with little interest created among even sympathetic independents or non-voters. I will be replacing my Ron Paul bumper sticker as soon as I can get a Barr/Root one. Hope that Ruwart and the “purists” realize that libertopia is not an option now, but moving in that direction is very achievable with this ticket and platform.

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by: Stewart Flood http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-621224 Wed, 28 May 2008 01:04:02 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-621224 I was extremely disappointed to see Chuck lose his position on the LNC. Nearly all of our delegation (SC) voted for him -- at least those of us who were still there Monday morning. I'm not sure how Chuck lost by such a huge margin. He should have had more support from delegates who instead chose to wimp out and not come to the convention floor Monday. We had barely enough for quorum. I was extremely disappointed to see Chuck lose his position on the LNC. Nearly all of our delegation (SC) voted for him—at least those of us who were still there Monday morning.

I’m not sure how Chuck lost by such a huge margin. He should have had more support from delegates who instead chose to wimp out and not come to the convention floor Monday. We had barely enough for quorum.

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by: Jonathan http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-621171 Tue, 27 May 2008 23:46:21 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-621171 wow people here are still whining wow people here are still whining

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by: David Tomlin http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-621169 Tue, 27 May 2008 23:44:37 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-621169 In another response not quoted above, Barr says: 'Voters likely to vote for Bob Barr as President would not come from McCain supporters. Sen. McCain is an establishment, big-government Republican, and there would be very little reason for his supporters to vote for Bob Barr, a small government Libertarian.' I wonder how Barr is going to get millions of votes when he starts out conceding roughly half the electorate. In another response not quoted above, Barr says:

‘Voters likely to vote for Bob Barr as President would not come from McCain supporters. Sen. McCain is an establishment, big-government Republican, and there would be very little reason for his supporters to vote for Bob Barr, a small government Libertarian.’

I wonder how Barr is going to get millions of votes when he starts out conceding roughly half the electorate.

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by: David Tomlin http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-621158 Tue, 27 May 2008 23:31:32 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-621158 I appreciate Barr's strong repudiation of the Patriot Act. His other responses leave much to be desired. Before discussing them, I want to make the general point that a candidate's past record is certainly relevant. If a candidate has changed his position that should be duly noted. Both his past and present positions should be taken into account. The demand some are making for wiping the slate clean is ridiculous, and insulting to the intelligence. In the interview cited above Barr says the U.S. should not 'maintain a massive presence' in Iraq or Afghanistan. He stops carefully short of calling for complete withdrawal from either, and in other interviews he has explicitly said that 'only a fool' would make such a commitment. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/12/bob-barr-insurgent-candid_n_101342.html Of course that means Barr thinks Ron Paul is a fool. At Barr's website I couldn't find a position statement on Iraq. All I found was an article celebrating the 'good news'. http://www.bobbarr2008.com/articles/17/2007-ends-on-a-few-good-notes/ On drug prohibition, Barr says nothing about the right of individuals to choose for themselves what substances they take into their bodies. He says current enforcement efforts have failed and he will consider 'all options' for replacing them. Obviously 'all options' includes less libertarian ones as well as more libertarian ones. In a response not quoted above, Barr indicates that he will keep drug enforcement personnel in Latin America, and if they get in trouble he will send the military to support them. Barr is still a drug warrior, and to suggest otherwise is obviously false. That alone should disqualify him as the standard bearer of the Libertarian Party. I appreciate Barr’s strong repudiation of the Patriot Act. His other responses leave much to be desired.

Before discussing them, I want to make the general point that a candidate’s past record is certainly relevant. If a candidate has changed his position that should be duly noted. Both his past and present positions should be taken into account. The demand some are making for wiping the slate clean is ridiculous, and insulting to the intelligence.

In the interview cited above Barr says the U.S. should not ‘maintain a massive presence’ in Iraq or Afghanistan. He stops carefully short of calling for complete withdrawal from either, and in other interviews he has explicitly said that ‘only a fool’ would make such a commitment.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/12/bob-barr-insurgent-candid_n_101342.html

Of course that means Barr thinks Ron Paul is a fool.

At Barr’s website I couldn’t find a position statement on Iraq. All I found was an article celebrating the ‘good news’.

http://www.bobbarr2008.com/articles/17/2007-ends-on-a-few-good-notes/

On drug prohibition, Barr says nothing about the right of individuals to choose for themselves what substances they take into their bodies. He says current enforcement efforts have failed and he will consider ‘all options’ for replacing them. Obviously ‘all options’ includes less libertarian ones as well as more libertarian ones.

In a response not quoted above, Barr indicates that he will keep drug enforcement personnel in Latin America, and if they get in trouble he will send the military to support them.

Barr is still a drug warrior, and to suggest otherwise is obviously false. That alone should disqualify him as the standard bearer of the Libertarian Party.

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by: Catholic Trotskyist http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-621103 Tue, 27 May 2008 22:13:19 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-621103 Redpath really supports Proportional Representation? That's part of the Fringe Alliance Strategy! Maybe there's some hope after all! Redpath really supports Proportional Representation? That’s part of the Fringe Alliance Strategy!

Maybe there’s some hope after all!

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by: disinter http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-621096 Tue, 27 May 2008 21:59:17 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-621096 Certainly, it seems ironic that the man who was once congress’s greatest champion of the “War on Drugs” is now the leader of a fringe party devoted to opposing it. A man who rails against overspending in Washington himself voted for No Child Left Behind, which libertarians hate. A man who was one of the main movers and shakers in the impeachment trial of President Clinton, which most libertarians opposed. A man who voted for the Patriot Act, but has now spent the last five years speaking out against it. http://www.stoptheaclu.com/archives/2008/05/27/why-bob-barr-is-not-an-alternative/ Certainly, it seems ironic that the man who was once congress’s greatest champion of the “War on Drugs” is now the leader of a fringe party devoted to opposing it. A man who rails against overspending in Washington himself voted for No Child Left Behind, which libertarians hate. A man who was one of the main movers and shakers in the impeachment trial of President Clinton, which most libertarians opposed. A man who voted for the Patriot Act, but has now spent the last five years speaking out against it.

http://www.stoptheaclu.com/archives/2008/05/27/why-bob-barr-is-not-an-alternative/

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by: Jeff Kendall http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-621093 Tue, 27 May 2008 21:55:21 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-621093 Twenty years ago the LP nominated Ron Paul to be the Presidential candidate after a bitter contest between Paul and Russell Means. The Means supporters at that time sounded very much like the Ruwart supporters today, proclaiming the Paul candidacy the end of the LP and claiming the LP should just change its name to some derivitive of Republican etc. I'm not sure what lies in store for the Barr campaign and we have a little over 5 months to see if he will be a genuine Libertarian, but hopefully he will follow in Paul's direction and please us all. We are taking a chance, just like we did 20 years ago. Lets not forget that just 4 years ago we nominated the hard core, bad to the bone libertarian; the guy who refused to carry a drivers license. How well did that work for us? We don't know what the results of the Barr campaign will be but I believe its worth the chance. And if Barr fails us we can always go to the obscure Super-Libertarian again in 4 years. But frankly, after the Badnarik campaign I believe that the Barr supporters deserve their turn. Twenty years ago the LP nominated Ron Paul to be the Presidential candidate after a bitter contest between Paul and Russell Means. The Means supporters at that time sounded very much like the Ruwart supporters today, proclaiming the Paul candidacy the end of the LP and claiming the LP should just change its name to some derivitive of Republican etc.

I’m not sure what lies in store for the Barr campaign and we have a little over 5 months to see if he will be a genuine Libertarian, but hopefully he will follow in Paul’s direction and please us all. We are taking a chance, just like we did 20 years ago.

Lets not forget that just 4 years ago we nominated the hard core, bad to the bone libertarian; the guy who refused to carry a drivers license. How well did that work for us?

We don’t know what the results of the Barr campaign will be but I believe its worth the chance. And if Barr fails us we can always go to the obscure Super-Libertarian again in 4 years. But frankly, after the Badnarik campaign I believe that the Barr supporters deserve their turn.

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by: texpat http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-621068 Tue, 27 May 2008 21:22:28 +0000 http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/05/27/lp-nominates-barrroot-chooses-officers/#comment-621068 <blockquote> Redpath will do. </blockquote> Yes, but he advocates proportional representation (PR) in addition to instant run-off voting (IRV). IRV makes sense. But although PR might get some libertarians elected, it would also lead to minority governments and therefore permanent middle-of-the-road compromise. Pass.
Redpath will do.

Yes, but he advocates proportional representation (PR) in addition to instant run-off voting (IRV). IRV makes sense. But although PR might get some libertarians elected, it would also lead to minority governments and therefore permanent middle-of-the-road compromise. Pass.

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