Edward C. Noonan writes about court ruling

Regarding that huge blowout in California involving the American Independent Party and the Constitution Party, here is the text of the court’s ruling followed by Edward C. Noonan’s comments:

My term as State Party Chairman is up on September 3, 2008…this will be one of my final acts in office. I must thank my Vice Chairman, Mark Seidenberg who protected me against this onslaught of the rouge faction of the AIP. He paid for this defense. And Gary G. Kreep Esq. was an awesome attorney!

[Here’s the real reason we had to carry this: Can you believe this? His “awesome attorney” is named “Kreep”??? Awesome!]

111 Responses to “Edward C. Noonan writes about court ruling”

  1. NewFederalist Says:

    Quite apt.

  2. Porter Rockwell Says:

    WOW…The political face of Mormons in politics….

    Harry Reid

    Mitt Romney

    Ed Noonan

  3. Larry Breazeale,Msgt.(ret.)USAF Says:

    To Mr. Porter Rockwell,
    You forgot another one…..

    “Orin Hachet-Job” from Utah.

    Ah yes, “September 3”....I can hardly wait! It will be ONE down, and just a “FEW” other ‘Benedict Arnolds’ to go!

    I feel a real ‘ground swell’ under my feet, here in California, with ‘other’ AIP activists / loyalists, and it’s NOT coming from the corner of the barn, where there is a small pile of horse manure, with a FEW flies lingering about! -Larry Breazeale, Msgt.(ret.)USAF,NVC/CP

  4. Porter Rockwell Says:

    Well…From what I hear, the Fat Lady (not referring to Noonan’s long suffer wife here) hasn’t sung yet.

    I for one, believe that the Baldwin/Castle ticket will prevail!

  5. Don Grundmann Says:

    Porter is correct. We, the true AIP, will prevail over the total corruption of Ed Noonan, Mark Seidenberg, Mark Robinson, and ( especially ) Alan Keyes. Their entire actions have been based upon a continuous foundation of lying and total corruption. They will be defeated.

  6. Bill Lussenheide Says:

    In the good book, in the book of Esther,...

    the villain Haman thought he was going to destroy the faithful, and had the upper hand. He had courted the judgement from the civil authority and the King. Haman thought all was well with his insidious plot.

    With great surprise, Haman found that he had the tables turned on him. Divine Providence smiled upon the oppressed, the truthful, the honest, and the loyal. Haman ended up hanging from the very gallows that he had built to destroy the faithful.

    The last chapters of the AIP story have not yet been written.

  7. Markham Robinson Says:

    This is Markham Robinson, Chairman Elect (referred to as Mark Robinson in this blog). I am Chairman-Elect of the American Independent Party. I object to the use of religiously based epithets and personal abuse in general.

    The American Independent Party has been throughout its 41 year history concerned with adherence to the Tenth Amendment, from George Wallace’s insistence on State’s rights to Alan Keyes defense of the free exercise of religion by appeal to that same limited government amendment.

    George Wallace and Alan Keyes. An interesting juxtaposition eh? The American Independent Party continues its devotion to American Independence and resistance to imprudent treaties that damage United States sovereignty or attempt to change our Constitution in any respect.

    The AIP remains opposed to the United Nations in almost all its aspects, the World Health Organization possibly excepted. One thing we like about it though—we have a veto over its forceful acts. Until it is well and truly defeated, we want to keep that. Our position on this has changed in that we no longer endorse any foolish policy that would allow the United Nations to become the nucleus of a world alliance against the United State which it might well become absent that vital veto power.

    The AIP remains prolife, pro Second Amendment rights and the general right of self-defense nationally and individually against all comers including an oppressive government.

    We remain opposed to any intrinsic authority in the Commander in Chief, whom we regard as a Military Chief Executive, only entitled to carry out the will of Congress in terms of the military budget, military organization and discipline as specified in legislation, and in majority votes of Congress declaring war (whether that legislation declares the act of Congress to be a war or not). We insist on the due subordination of the Executive as Commander in Chief to majority authorizations by Congress of all hostile acts. Such authorizations are “declarations of war” whether Congress is honest enough to call them that or not. We distinguish here Constitutional from political offenses as hardly anyone does concerning this matter, but which all honest and intelligent observers must admit once it is called to their attention.

    We adamantly oppose any foreign military adventures by the President claiming intrinsic authority as Commander in Chief to justify them. The only use of force by the Commander in Chief is for true emergencies where it is necessary to protect American Forces, American citizens, American property and no time is available to consult Congress. Getting the nation into a war on his own initiative is an impeachable offense and if that happens with any President, even one whose election we have supported, we will call for his impeachment on those grounds.

    It has been alleged that the AIP has been taken over by “Republican Operatives.” Some Republican operatives! I have filed suit to prevent McCain’s appearance on the California General Election Ballot for President, based on his non-natural born status. I have been feeding information and arguments to support the Obama suit to keep him off the ballot too. I guess I am not a very good “Democratic Operative either!

    It has been alleged that the AIP has been taken over by Neo-Con’s. First let me say that Neo Cons are not Conservatives. They are not in general prolife and they are for “Big Government Conservatism,” which, unless Conservatives are Liberals would make them NOT Conservative! George Bush certainly isn’t a Conservative!

    It has been alleged that Alan Keyes is a “War mongering Neo Con.” He is neither a Neo Con nor a warmonger whatever Neo Cons may be. He is for a strong defense, but not for an American Empire. He is a Conservative, a Reagan Conservative and much more—a strict Constitutionalist.

    But no Constitutionalist is a Conservative either. We are so far from observing the Constitution now, that to advocate anything like that is RADICAL! We are radical republicans, radical Constitutionalists. We are tired of playing defense. We are going on offense.

  8. Bill Lussenheide Says:

    This article explains more in depth the labyrnth of Keyes organizations, and the hundreds of thousands of dollars that are unaccounted for by the Keyes group. It is a must read. I would really like to know the answers to the inurement issues from Keyes campaigns in the past, and the answers to the issues raised in the article below:

    http://www.nonprofitquarterly.org/cohenreport/2007/11/20/alan-keyes-and-the-minuteman-morass/

  9. Porter Rockwell Says:

    Thus has spoken MarkHAMbone Robinson, who is a religious reconstructionist and an a member of the JR Rushdooney Cult.

    Robinson believes in the efficacy of the “Church World”. Robinson would, if he could force Latter Day Saints and others into prison camps and would declare Rushdooney Sharia Law.

    Robinson is the pit chihuahua of Ed Noonan…who’s only beef with the AIP is that no one would kiss his fetid derrier.

    Maybe Ed can raise those millions for Keyes by selling those naked pictures of the Governor of California….like he tried to do as State Chair.

  10. Don Grundmann Says:

    ” It has been alleged that the AIP has been taken over by “Republican Operatives.” Some Republican operatives! I have filed suit to prevent McCain’s appearance on the California General Election Ballot for President, based on his non-natural born status. I have been feeding information and arguments to support the Obama suit to keep him off the ballot too. I guess I am not a very good “Democratic Operative either!”

    Response : The real reason for Robinsons so called ” suit ” against McCain is to cover his tracks as a Republican operative. Anyone with brains knows that the suit will be thrown out of court because it truly is frivolous but its real purpose is to provide cover for the complete and total corruption of Robinson and Seidenberg as Republican operatives. Yet far more than being a political operative Robinson is a operative of Satan as his total corruption is exactly what his Master has ordered in this time of national crisis. At a time when the nation is at the edge of the abyss it is Robinson, Siedenberg, Noonan, Keyes, and Hoefling – liars all and corrupt to the bone – who work to blunt the last and best defense of the nation against the nightmare that approaches. Robinson, as with Keyes, spouts endless words but it is his ACTIONS - outright lying for virtually endless times and his work to destroy the Constitution Party; to destroy what he has never built and then to claim the remaining wreckage as his own handiwork – which illustrate how utterly and completely corrupt he truly is. He is a fake who lies with every breath when he is awake and every breath when he is asleep. He betrays the nation for his own glorification.

  11. Don Grundmann Says:

    ” This is Markham Robinson, Chairman Elect (referred to as Mark Robinson in this blog). I am Chairman-Elect of the American Independent Party.”

    Response : This is yet another lie from Robinson. He is NOT the ” Chairman Elect of the American Independent Party. Jim King is the Chairman as I am the Vice-Chairman.

  12. Don Grundmann Says:

    ” It has been alleged that Alan Keyes is a “War mongering Neo Con.” He is neither a Neo Con nor a warmonger whatever Neo Cons may be. He is for a strong defense, but not for an American Empire. He is a Conservative, a Reagan Conservative and much more—a strict Constitutionalist.”

    Response : Keyes supports the war in Iraq. That is one of the reasons that he was rejected by the CP. If Bill Schear were still alive his pro-war stance would have been rejected by the real AIP but the fake AIP; under the influence of the corruption and lies of Noonan, Robinson, and Seidenberg; are putting lipstick on their corrupt pig in order to sell him as what he is not. He is a perfect ” Neo-Con ” and as such has been sent by the Republicans to destroy the Constitution Party. He will fail. The real AIP; of which Jim King is the Chairman and I am the Vice-Chairman will defeat the rats nest of the fake AIP. They have ” succeeded ” to this moment in their objective of destroying the CP campaign of opposing the corruption of the major parties. They have hence cleared the way for the victory of evil in November. But their evil will be defeated.

  13. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    TO Alan Keyes/Wiley Drake supporters. The Orange County Central Committee of the American Independent Party will meet at 7:00 p.m.
    for its monthly meeting at 6801 Western Avenue, Buea Park, CA on
    Tuesday, September 2, 2008.

    Topic on agenda will what happened in Sacramento to keep Alan Keyes
    & Wiley Drake on the November ballot.

    September 2nd will also be the last day the current AIP Chairman will be
    in office, because the new chairman, viz., Markham Robinson will be taking
    the chairmanship for two years on September 3, 2008. The Orange County Central Committee will be giving an award to Chairman Noonan
    for two years of outstanding leadership.

    I will be starting my second two year term on September 3, 2008 as the
    Vice Chairman of the American Independent Party. Since June 27, 2008
    the AIP as been freed form the control of the Constitution Party and has
    been associated with the America’s Independent Party.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Chairman, Orange County Central Committee of the American Independent Party.

    P.S., Please note I an the Vice Chairman and a National Committeeman
    of the American Independent Party.

  14. Larry Breazeale,Msgt.(ret.)USAF Says:

    All anybody has to do is READ or HEAR the typical “ramblings” uttered from the mouth of M. Robinson , to understand, like ANY typical man or woman on the street can understand, IS, that he sure loves the attention!
    In HIS mind, he thinks HE is another Thomas Jefferson! M. Robinson is a “legend in his own mind”. He will go far…...... eventually, in due time,right out the door!

    He and his “Keyes Faction” will certainly be very hard pressed to get ANY REAL co-operation among the other 98% of the AIP leadership and ‘rank & file’ Aiper’s across the state, because of their outrageous behavior and underhandedness. “THEY” have made their bed, now, they must lay on it!
    -Larry Breazeale, Msgt.(ret.)USAF, NVC/CP

  15. Don Grundmann Says:

    ” Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Chairman, Orange County Central Committee of the American Independent Party.

    P.S., Please note I an the Vice Chairman and a National Committeeman
    of the American Independent Party.”

    Response : This is yet another in a series of endless and countless lies by Mark Seidenberg. I am the Vice-Chairman of the American Independent Party of California, Jim King is the Chairman. The corruption of Noonan, Robinson, Seidenberg, and Keyes will soon be defeated once and for all.

  16. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    To: Don Grundmann

    Please stop with the disinformation. You were in Sacramento and spoke
    there. I was the elected chairman of the convention. You know that the
    State Central Committee designated the Auditorium of the Secretary of
    State Building for the location of the Convention that took place on July
    5, 2008 of the American Independent Party.

    I can not wait until the date of September 3, 2008, that is the date that
    Don Grundmann’s office will be replaced by a new National Committeeman.
    Don Grundmann was elected for a two year term as a National Committeeman on September 3, 2006. His last day as an officer of the
    American Independent Party is September 2, 2008, viz., National Committeeman is an officer of the American Independent Party and he is
    out on September 3, 2008.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman and National Committeeman
    of the American Independent Party.

  17. Clark Says:

    ..come on, fellows!..can’t you just all get along?...

    ...maybe you guys can kiss and make-up over a good old-fashioned fag beating…or maybe work together producing and distributing some good old fashioned ‘all fags want to bugger your children’ literature!..

    (and gruntman..you should be buggered to death!) ;o)

    ...lol!..

  18. 4NIC8 Says:

    A Christ Killer and a Waffen SS Doctor argue, NEWS ITEM

    Grungemann is a nazi

  19. Porter Rockwell Says:

    Hey Lussenheide….How’s it feel to be the ASSHOLE of the WEEK?????

    Ed Noonan…who’s spent a lifetime of service to the AIP, recently sent out an email stating that Bill Lussenheide is his favorite asshole….bwahahahahahahahaha

  20. Don Grundmann Says:

    ” Mark Seidenberg Says:

    August 29th, 2008 at 12:43 am
    To: Don Grundmann

    Please stop with the disinformation. You were in Sacramento and spoke
    there. I was the elected chairman of the convention. You know that the
    State Central Committee designated the Auditorium of the Secretary of
    State Building for the location of the Convention that took place on July
    5, 2008 of the American Independent Party.”

    Response : Mark – You ASKED for the hall. The SOS did not ” designate ” the hall for you; i.e.; they did NOT recognize your rat convention.

  21. Don Grundmann Says:

    ” I can not wait until the date of September 3, 2008, that is the date that
    Don Grundmann’s office will be replaced by a new National Committeeman.
    Don Grundmann was elected for a two year term as a National Committeeman on September 3, 2006. His last day as an officer of the
    American Independent Party is September 2, 2008, viz., National Committeeman is an officer of the American Independent Party and he is
    out on September 3, 2008.”

    Response : And here we have yet another lie by Mark Seidenberg and also a perfect example of the total and complete corruption of Seidenberg, Robinson, Noonan, and Keyes. The fact is that I won the AIP Senatorial primary in 2006; a victory which gives me a 6 year term as a central committee person. Of course the Senatorial candidate has always been a National Committee member – until the rats and their corruption. So all can see the open intent and open corruption of the rats by their intent to kick me out – now – of my position. Unfortunately for them Jim King and I are the true elected officers of the party. Mark Seidenberg and his fellow rat liars have ALREADY been removed from office via the Los Angeles convention of the party in late June where new officers were elected. So Mark – it is YOU who are ALREADY out as I !! am the actual Vice-Chairman. Your total corruption has won out to the moment but our side will beat you like dogs when the truth is finally brought out. You will finally be publicly exposed for being the total rat liar that you are. Your and your fellow rats legacy in history will be sealed and you will all be permanently identified; word association; with corruption, lying, and all of the other more than appropriate negatives that identify and define your sewer character.

  22. Don Grundmann Says:

    ” Since June 27, 2008
    the AIP as been freed form the control of the Constitution Party and has
    been associated with the America’s Independent Party.”

    Response : The June 27th ” meeting ” referred to was by PHONE !! and with NO notice to the rest of the central committee other than the 5-7 rats who then ” voted ” to disaffiliate from the CP and join the rat party of Keyes. Hence yet ANOTHER example in a virtually countless list of the total, utter, and complete corruption of Noonan, Robinson, Seidenberg, and Keyes. If the rats had ANY honesty or the slightest shred of integrity they would NEVER had conducted such a totally and completely corrupt action such as what they did on 6-27. Yet their fantastic moral bankruptcy and corruption is totally exposed by such actions. When this truth, along with their endless other corrupt actions, is exposed in court they will finally be, as they should be, shattered and defeated. Their ONLY hope, and that which they have placed their total reliance on, is that the courts ( as shown by the recognition of homosexual marriage in California ) are in harmony with their corruption and hence will allow their perversion and sickness to win over the truth. Since they themselves are totally corrupt they rely on that corruption and moral pollution in our nation to grease the skids for them and protect them in their perversion. They are political rapists and molestors who can create nothing but can only steal and then claim the theft as their own property. These rats will be defeated and it will come by their own hand. Their own corruption and moral depravity will do them in as it does with all who serve the enemy of our Creator.

  23. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    TO: Don Grundmann

    Again you are stating disinformation. Why not try to tell the truth for once.
    This is my refutation to you replies of 11:01 am and 11:13 a.m. I know of
    no Election Code section or by law of the American Independent Party which makes a “nominee delegate” such as Don Grundmann an officer of the American Independent Party. Don Grundmann stood for election
    on September 3, 2006 at the State Central Committee meeting of AIP
    at Rancho Cordova, Sacramento County for a two year term only. There-
    fore his last day in office as an officer of the AIP is September 2, 2008.

    California Election Code section 7570 states in part that the state convention shall meet “at a location designated by the state central
    committee”. The state central committee designated the meeting place
    for the July 5, 2008 convention as the Auditorium in the Secretary of State
    Building in Sacramento, California.

    Further, California Election Code section 7608(b) states that the (state central) committee “will meet in Sacramento” “in the same community
    where the state convention is held, at 10 a.m., on the Sunday following
    the state convention (Stats. 1998, c. 199, section 22). Therefore, Don
    Grundmann did not get elected to a party office in 2008 and is out of office by September 3, 2008.

    Further, only the party chairman is a member of the National Committee by reason of holding the office of chairman of the AIP according to the by laws. Seats on the National Committee do not flow to any officer other than chairman.

    Don Grundmann is not the Vice Chairman of this party. I am the Vice Chairman of American Independent Party, because I was elected on September 3, 2006 at the State Central Committee at Rancho Cordova,
    Sacramento County, California. In fact Don Grundmann voted for me at
    that election. I was again elected for a second two year term as Vice Chairman of the American Independent Party on July 6. 2008 (taking office
    with a new term starting on September 3, 2008).

    The events in Los Angeles on June 28 – 29, 2008 are just void. The state
    central committee did not designate a location for a convention in Los Angeles, even if they had the authority to do so. Futher, the State Central
    Committee is limited on the location of convention site locations, viz.,
    just within Sacramento. Bottom line the AIP State Central Committee designated a location of the 2008 Convention to be at the Auditorium
    of Secretary of State Building.

    Further, I was in Europe and Greenland, when the sites were located for
    the AIP Convention and Central Committee meeting were arranged with
    the officials of the Department of State. So I did not “ask for the hall” (a la Grundmann disinformation).

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg

  24. Bill Lussenheide Says:

    I am honored that Mr. Noonan considers me to be a blowhard and an A**H*** .

    Respect from Ed Noonan is respect that I never want.

  25. 4NIC8 Says:

    Mark Seidenberg is a homosexual Christ Killer.

  26. Ben Says:

    I find it quite humourous to read these arguments about the AIPCA. It matters not who ends up controlling the AIPCA tomorrow. Alan Keyes is on the ballot of the AIPCA as their Presidential nominee. Now you are all just arguing over who gets to bury the corpse. The AIPCA died when Bill Shearer passed away. This whole comedy of errors proves that not a single one of you have a clue how to run a political party. To be outfoxed by some one as clueless as Ed Noonan only shows your own ineptness and naievete. You should have bounced him to the curb over a year ago, but none of you wanted the job until Ed Noonan chose to give the AIPCA’s ballot line to Alan Keyes. You should have never elected him chairman to begin with. Any one that’s dealt with Ed Noonan for even a short period of time (a few months), should quickly realise that Ed Noonan is a self-absorbed narcisist. You all got what you deserved when you foolishly “elected” him chairman. He didn’t stab Bill Shearer in the back. He learned well from his mentor. You all conveniently forget about Bill Shearer’s threat to pull the AIPCA out of the CP in 2004 if he didn’t get his way, and his 40-year history of disaffiliating the AIPCA when Bill Shearer didn’t get his way. Don’t crow about being loyal AIPers. The AIPCA has no history of loyalty, but to Bill Shearer and his unrealised political aspirations.

  27. Cody Quirk Says:

    Ed Noonan and his associates are Gadianton Robbers of the lowest character, but keep out the LDS bashing! The California situation has NOTHING to do with religion! BTW, the LDS leaders of the Nevada IAP and the Utah & Idaho CP affiliates are backing Baldwin.

    I also think you need to relax on the rhetoric Don, while I feel the same way, don’t make yourself look like the bad guy here.

  28. Don Grundmann Says:

    ” You all got what you deserved when you foolishly “elected” him chairman. He didn’t stab Bill Shearer in the back.”

    Response : It is true that we got what we deserved by electing a totally corrupt person like Ed Noonan but it is also true that Ed did indeed stab Bill Schear in the back.

  29. Don Grundmann Says:

    Mark : We will see you in court. We will defeat your corruption. We will defeat you here on earth before you go to hell for your corruption and lying. Jim and I are the party officers and we will defeat you. Your corruption will not stand.

  30. Cody Quirk Says:

    You may be right on our gulibilty of making Noonan our state chair, but then again, conservatives were gulible enough to elect George W. Bush.

    And you and the nutjobs’ gulibilty of joining a right-wing political party that doesn’t support religious bigotry or Theocracy, and thinking you can take it over puts a carton of eggs on your faces.

    Bill Shearer kept the AIP alive when it nationally collapsed in the 70’s, thanks to a extremist faction of the John Birch Society and Tom Anderson that took over the national party and kicked out several state AIP affiliates. Now with Bill gone, it will not be easy to fill his shoes, yet Ed or Markham only tore them.

  31. Cody Quirk Says:

    BTW, the Judge left open the possiblity of another lawsuit on whos the legit leaders of the AIP.

  32. Don Grundmann Says:

    ” I also think you need to relax on the rhetoric Don, while I feel the same way, don’t make yourself look like the bad guy here.”

    Response : Cody – Thank you for your thoughts regarding my ” rhetoric ” but if anything I am too nice to Keyes, et.al. Here in California we must pass Proposition 8 to stop pervert marriage or it will sweep the entire country and doom our nation. Keyes and his gang SOUND good on the issue but I know that it is, for them, totally ” rhetoric ” as they have no guts to take a true stand. Example from another issue – Keyes talks about the ” Fair Tax.” English translation – he will NOT ( despite his WORDS ) do anything to truly stop the corruption of the IRS. ” Reorganize ” yes. Stop the real corruption? No way. He is all WORDS and NO ACTION. In fact you can see the future of the rats by observing not their WORDS but their ACTIONS. Who would be so completely corrupt as to hold a PHONE meeting of the central committee and not notify all of the other members ( other than your gang of 5 ) because you knew that if you did so you would lose? And who would then take that as a document of ” disaffiliation ” and pass it of to the SOS office as if it was legitimate? Who would do such a action ( which is only one of MANY similar corrupt actions )? ONLY a corrupt individual/group would possibly even THINK of such a action much less DO it. So can we really expect any true defense of morality by utterly immoral and corrupt people such as Keyes and his gang? The answer is no way. I personally know that Robinson is beyond weak in confronting the corruption within our nation, be it the IRS, the FED, 9/11, or anything else. He, like Keyes, is a TALKER. They TALK a good game. But when it comes to actually DOING anything the ONLY thing they will do is something corrupt ( as I illustrated above ) to gain power and destroy ( Robinson and his mission as a GOP operative ) and/or to get money and destroy ( Keyes and his mission as a GOP operative ). Hence as the moment of greatest peril to the nation when we must unite in a common front against the enemy lest the nation be destroyed Robinson, Seidenberg, Noonan, and Keyes pull out their knives and stab the country in the back. So you see Cody I am actually far too nice to them. In another time, like in General Washingtons day, they would have been tried for treason by the Continental Army, convicted, and shot by the end of the day. They are no less guilty of treason now than they would be then. Except that now their treason will have far more staggering effects and will bring tragedy upon our nation in countless ways and for countless years to come. Yet they care not a second for this as their only concern is 1) Keyes – revenge against the CP and feathering his financial nest with the rewards that will come from his Republican benefactors for destroying the CP; 2) Robinson – the vindication for his galactic ego that he is the ” leader ” of a party; a party that he has stolen from its founders since, being a political molestor/rapist, he is totally incapable of making it on his own; 3) Seidenberg – the joy of seeing another party destroyed for his Republican buddies just like he aided in taking down the Reform Party ( as with the CP a potential threat to the GOP ); and 4) Noonan – for his revenge against the CP and Chuck Baldwin for ” hating Mormons ” even though the CP party leaders, like Howard Phillips, came to the defense of Mormons at Tampa. Chuck Baldwin has NEVER ” hated Mormons ” but Ed is a blinded by his own hatred fool who will never be confused by facts. That is what allows Keyes and the other Republican operatives to play him like a fiddle. No, Cody. I am far too kind. General Washington would have solved the problem by the end of the day. P.S. – Robinson will make a big deal of his lawsuit against McCain. As with EVERYTHING else he does this is a fakeout. The lawsuit will go NOWHERE and he knows that. The real reason is to provide ” coverfire ” and ” plausible deniability ” to his being a Republican operative. He will now point to this ( he already has ) and claim ” How can I be a operative when I am suing McCain?” Hence it is easy enough to throw a small bit of their Republican money around to provide protective cover for their corruption. Cody – you can already see and have well documented their corruption. I can tell you that we have only seen the ” tip of the iceberg.” I am WAYYYYY too nice to them.

  33. Richard Winger Says:

    Same-sex marriage is legal in Canada, Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Norway, and South Africa, and those nations don’t seem doomed.

  34. Eddie H. Nessul Says:

    View Mr. Mark Seidenberg attired properly for his coronation as “The NEW VICE CHAIRMAN OF THE AMERICAN INDEPENDENT PARTY” this coming Wednesday.

    I think he looks dapper and dashing and appropriately dressed for this office of high calling, wouldnt you agree?

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/senatormccarthy/86766815/

  35. Don Grundmann Says:

    Cody : As a additional comment regarding my ” rhetoric ” I want to point out that liberals fear the vote of the people. They consider themselves as intellectually superior to their ” inferiors.” They know what is good for the masses they rule over. They also know that the citizens would never by a honest vote accept what the liberals desire to impose on them such as abortion or homosexual marriage and that therefore they must achieve their objectives by denying the vote to citizens and achieving their objectives through the courts. Noonan, Seidenberg, and Robinson are the same way. They have always known that in a honest vote they would lose so they have avoided it at all costs. They did not come to the LA convention because they knew they could not fake the numbers enough even though we were a open convention and if they had the honest votes they would have won. We did not use proxies since our parlimentarian showed us how their use was against the bylaws. Instead they wanted only Sacramento where Noonan and Mark Robinson would disqualify anyone who could vote against them while manufacturing any and all proxies needed ( 1, 100, or 1,000 and irregardless of their being against the bylaws ) to overcome any opposition. They would tell anyone whose vote they stole – ” Too bad. Fight it out in court ( against their Republican funding ).” So from the very first second of their plan they were going to deny a honest vote and work to achieve their ” victory ” via the courts. Hence they are liberals in their belief that 1) they know what is best for everyone else; and 2) they know that in a honest vote they would lose because they are incapable of either performing in or winning a honest debate; so 3) they will bypass a vote and by hook, crook, betrayal, deceit, lying, or all of these they will get their ” victory ” in the only way possible – via the courts. They are liberals pretending to be conservatives. The name for such people is ” neo-con.” This is also another term for a communist who pretends to be a conservative. It is a proper term because, just like the Communists, they fear a honest vote. Hence my ” rhetoric ” is far far too kind to them. Their words are flowery but it is their actions which expose them as traitors of the worst kind. They are pretenders of the worst kind. They, including their Supreme Soviet Leader Alan Keyes, are total fakes.

  36. Don Grundmann Says:

    ” Same-sex marriage is legal in Canada, Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Norway, and South Africa, and those nations don’t seem doomed.”

    Response : It is only now a matter of time before these nations collapse. South Africa is a basket case of murder and mayhem accompanied by a collapsing economy which will all only get worse. The European examples will, at best, fade into history. At worst they will be slaughtered by their Muslim rulers; those who will outpopulate them and then impose Sharia ” law ” upon them. They will be outpopulated because the same culture which supports homosexuality is anti-human; i.e.; it believes in and practices the Malthusian anti-human arguments that there are ” too many people, ” etc. and hence supports the slaughter of humans via abortion, AIDS ( as a bioweapon ), etc. Canada will collapse in 50 years at the most. Any country which adopts homosexual marriage automatically becomes too weak and unfit to survive as such a event only occurs with the moral collapse of a nation. They will continue only by parasitizing their remaining healthy elements just as cancer ” thrives ” by killing the host. Their death is now as sure as the sun rises UNLESS there is a Christian revival in the nation which restores a Christian morality as the prime operating base of their culture, society, and nation as a whole.

  37. Clark Says:

    ...gruntman—although an apparent fucking crazed homophobe—appears to be on to something as to the stinking republicreeps’ $abotage directed at certain third parties..

    ...it appears the eel$ have, AT LEAST, $tink-bombed the LP and CP..

    ...btw, fucking crazed homophobes, think about it, dummies!..the more ‘fags’ there are, the more love-starved vixens for ‘real men’ like you and me!..

    (as one wag put it, ‘these dipshits ain’t had pussy since a pussy had them!) ;o

  38. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    Cody,

    You are a young man. I am not. The first election I worked on was when I was a teenager, that was in the Republican Primary of 1962. Both William Shearer and I were trying to elect Joe Shell governor of California.

    I remember Tom Anderson from the time I was an undergraduate student at San Francisco State College in the 1960’s. He was a good man and not
    an extremist. I had the honor of meeting Tom Anderson twice, once in 1969 and again in 1972. Stop the bashing of JBS. It is a good organization. Both Chairman Edward Noonan and myself are members in good standing. Why not state that William Shearer and Tom Anderson had a dispute on the operations of the America Party and leave it at that.

    In fact, before the AIP affliated with the America’s Independent Party on
    June 27, 2008, we had a discussion with America Party Officials on re-joining the AP. However, because of an internal dispute between the
    Virginia Faction and the Florida Faction within the AP, I rejected the idea
    of going from one split party to another split party. The murder
    of unborn children must stop. The Constitution Party has been divided into
    factions for two long over that issue. My suggestion is get out of the CP and join the only real party that is pro-life, viz., America’s Independent Party and elect Dr. Alan Keyes the next President of these United States.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party.

    .

  39. Don Grundmann Says:

    ” Stop the bashing of JBS. It is a good organization. Both Chairman Edward Noonan and myself are members in good standing.”

    Response ; I agree that the JBS is a good organization but to say that Mark Seidenberg and Ed Noonan are ” members in good standing ” casts a serious cloud on the organization. The JBS has tossed out people in the past for reasons that I am unsure of. If the leadership knew the truth of the fantastic corruption of Noonan and Seidenberg they would certainly minimally give consideration to tossing them out to preserve the excellent reputation of the JBS. The JBS values all citizens and among many other principles works to protect the right of the citizens to vote; a right which liberals and other believers in tyranny constantly work to take away and subvert. This is in total contrast to Seidenberg and Noonan who, like Communists, have conspired to deny voting rights to AIP members in order to accomplish their corrupt objectives. This is not even mentioning their filing with the Calif. SOS office of fraudulent documents produced by that vote rigging process. Minimally the knowledgible filing of false documents with a government office should disqualify anyone from membership in such a wonderful organization as the JBS except that they certainly don’t have the resources to act on the corruption and law breaking of their singular members. Exposure of these criminals will come eventually and as surely as the sun rises.

    Don Grundmann, Vice-Chairman of the American Independent Party

  40. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    I am sorry to all. I stated in my above post the “America Party”. I was
    should have stated the “American Party”. I left off the letter “N”in typing. Also, I must of had a senior moment, because I was taking about a “Virginia Faction” in the AP. I should of stated the AP split was between
    a “Florida Faction” and an other faction over the abortion issue.

    As to the latest post by Don Grundmann, who is not the VP of AIP. Dr.
    Grundmann, is one of 13 National Committee members of the AIP. He
    hold no office within that committee. His last day on the National Committee will be September 2, 2008, unless he resigns early, which
    I will pray for.

    I have not producted false documents for any one. I request that Don
    Grundmann stop with the disinformation.

    Bottom line is both Ed Noonan and myself look on the JBS as the last
    hope on saving the sovereignty of the United States.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party

  41. Don Grundmann Says:

    ” I have not producted false documents for any one. I request that Don
    Grundmann stop with the disinformation.”

    Response : While I am the Vice-Chairman of the American Independent Party I speak as a private citizen that I have direct knowledge that Ed Noonan, Mark Seidenberg, and Mark Robinson both conspired to and did committ the action of filing false documents with the California Secretary of State office; such conspiracy being part of a conscious plan to deny the voting rights of AIP members in the conduct and function of the party. I will so testify under penalty of perjury in any appropriate court to this matter and will produce direct evidence from multiple sources of both the conspiracy and the criminal action itself by these individuals who acted both singularly and in concert.

  42. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    Don Grundmann is not the Vice Chairman of the American Independent
    Party. Don Grundmann is a member of the AIP State Central Committee
    and National Committee. Don Grundmann hold no office on the National
    Committee and his last day as a member of the National Committee will
    be September 2, 2008.

    Don Grundmann states that he has “direct knowledge” that …”Mark Seidenberg and Mark Robinson both conspired to and did committ (sic.)
    the action of filing false documents with the California Secretary of State
    office”. I saw Don Grundman in court on August 26, 2006. He was with
    Jim King in the Superior Court Department 31 in Sacramento. Jim King
    had filed for a writ on mandate, which was rejected by Judge Kenny. If
    Don Grundmann had that type of information it could have been brought
    up in court then.

    Bottomline, Dr. Grundmann, please stop with you disinformation. Admit
    you have no “direct knowledge” of “filing false documents” by Mark Seidenberg “with the California Secretary of State”. You have my email
    so you can send me this so-called “direct knowledge” information or
    just file an action in court. Stop using Third Party Watch with your disinformation.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party

  43. Trent Hill Says:

    Wether or not Keyes or Baldwin is on the ballot—-I think everyone can tell that the AIP-Baldwin faction will be returned to power, wether by Judge Order or by Re-takeover in 2 years.

  44. Bill Lussenheide Says:

    Does Alan Keyes still support the idea of “reparations” for blacks, as he argued for during his campaign for Senator in Illinois?

    I have yet to hear anyone defend Keyes on what was posted in this thread (on the AUG. 28th 8:36PM posting by me) about the many Keyes organizations both misappropriating and channeling campaign funds for personal inurement.

    Would also be interested to hear the response from “America’s Independent Party”, whether it be Keyes, Hoffling, Seidenberg, Noonan, Robinson et al. concerning that above post and the accusations found at this additional site, as well as the reparations idea.

    http://www.realchange.org/keyes.htm

  45. Don Grundmann Says:

    “Bottomline, Dr. Grundmann, please stop with you disinformation. Admit
    you have no “direct knowledge” of “filing false documents” by Mark Seidenberg “with the California Secretary of State”. You have my email
    so you can send me this so-called “direct knowledge” information or
    just file an action in court. Stop using Third Party Watch with your disinformation.”

    Response : Ed Noonan, Mark Robinson, and Mark Seidenberg conspired to commit fraud upon the California Secretary of State office by constructing a fraudulent and false document and submitting it with the intent to decieve the SOS that the AIP had disaffiliated from the CP. Noonan, Seidenberg, and Robinson knew that they had deliberately manipulated the ” vote ” to produce such a document by 1) having a PHONE meeting to conduct the vote; a action totally against the by-laws of the party and in violation of any normal parlimentary procedure; and ( especially ) 2) deliberately not informing the majority of the committee that their PHONE ” meeting ” was even taking place; this because they knew that a full committee vote would reject their outrageous action. Seidenberg will claim that he is innocent; that he did not file the document. To my knowledge Noonan filed the document so technically Seidenberg can be correct to say that he did not file. But Seidenberg, as Robinson and Noonan, was fully aware not only of the fraud involved in the production of the document, as he participated at all stages in that fraud, but of the full intent of that fraud. His weasel words of not filing the document will not stop his ( my view and what I will work for ) hopeful prosecution for his deliberate attempt to deceive the SOS regarding the true actions of the AIP. He is part of a conscious and willful conspiracy to defraud the AIP, the CP, and to deceive the SOS office to aid in actions harmful to the AIP and the CP. I will be contacting the SOS office to bring this fraud and deception to their attention and seek the investigation of Seidenberg, Robinson, and Noonan followed by their prosecution under the appropriate statue(s). Following this or in tandem with it there will be a lawsuit against these 3 for the intentional harm and damages which their actions have caused to the AIP and the CP. The documentation of their fraud and intentional deception and their conscious conspiracy to conduct it will be extremely easy to prove without a doubt by any standard of evidence. As the saying goes – ” The wheels of justice grind slowly but they grind exceedingly fine.” Today these totally corrupt persons crow about their ” victory ” in knocking Chuck Baldwin off of the ballot. Come back in 5 years; allowing for all the delaying and stall tactics that they will use in their attempt to escape justice. They will be ( richly deserved ) destroyed in one way or another; hopefully ( from my view ) with appropriate jail time for their actions. It is just a matter of time and I am a very patient, and very persistant, person.

  46. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    The American Independent Party State Central Committee on or about July 20, 2007 (a meeting that Dr. Don Grundmann was present and voting)
    established the proceedures for on-line meetings. That meeting took place
    in Sacramento, CA at the Auditorium of the Secretary of State Building.
    It was the same meeting that Elliott S. Graham and Morton Short became
    officers of AIP. At that meeting the State Central Committee selected a
    manual of parlimentary proceedures that allowed for the form of on-line
    meetings the SCC wanted. As I recall only David did not vote for that
    manual of parlimentary proceedures. I recall now that Don Grundmann
    said “AYE” on that vote.

    Next, at the June 27, 2008 meeting Don Grundmann gave his verbal comments via telephone about the American Independent Party State
    Central Committee vote that ended all connections between the CP
    and AIP. As I recall Dr. Grundmann spoke of “30 pieces of silver” and
    a “knife in his back” after the SCC voted to connect with the America’s
    Independent Party. This all took place before the events in Los Angeles
    on June 28 -29, 2008.

    Don Grundmann took part in June 27, 2008 meeting. He was just out voted.

    Don Grundmann needs to stop with the disinformation about these events.

    Sincerly, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party

  47. RRHeustisJr Says:

    “I am the Chairman.”

    “No, I am the Chairman.”

    “No you’re not. I am!”

    “Wrong. I am the Chairman. You are not the Chairman.”

    “You might think you’re the Chairman, but I am the true Chairman.”

    “You’re the Chairman of nothing. I am the Chairman of the party.”

    “You’re the Chairman of a rump faction. I am the Chairman of the party.”

    “Not true.”

    “The Secretary of State says that I’m the Chairman.”

    “The Court will say otherwise.”

    “The Court already said that our Presidential nominee will be on the ballot.”

    “This fight is not over yet. You may have the ballot line, but we will be avenged by the Court later.”

    “Wishful thinking.”

    “You just wait and see.”

    “Fine. But I’m the Chairman.”

    “You’re not the Chairman.”

    “Am so.”

    “Are not.”

    “Whatever.”

    “That’s right.”

    “I am the Chairman.”

    I am the Chairman.”

    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…........

    Flashback to Reform Party politics….

  48. Don Grundmann Says:

    ” Next, at the June 27, 2008 meeting Don Grundmann gave his verbal comments via telephone about the American Independent Party State
    Central Committee vote that ended all connections between the CP
    and AIP. As I recall Dr. Grundmann spoke of “30 pieces of silver” and
    a “knife in his back” after the SCC voted to connect with the America’s
    Independent Party. This all took place before the events in Los Angeles
    on June 28 -29, 2008.

    Don Grundmann took part in June 27, 2008 meeting. He was just out voted.

    Don Grundmann needs to stop with the disinformation about these events.

    Response : Yet more in a endless chain of lies by Mark Seidenberg. 1) I was never on the phone committee ” meeting ” of June 27th and so I was not ” outvoted.” I only learned of it at the Los Angeles AIP convention of the 28th and 29th when Mark passed out flyers announcing that the AIP had disaffilated from the CP and had filed a document with the state claiming that. I was shocked into action as I must admit that until that moment I did not give credit to Robinson, Seidenberg, and Noonan that they could be so corrupt. I knew that they were corrupt but not THAT corrupt as to hold a phony phone meeting and then file a phony document with the state. Hence Mark Seidenberg is, yet again, lying that I was on their phone call which they use as a claim that the AIP disaffiliated from the CP. 2) My ” 30 pieces ” and ” Judas ” comments were made when I went to the rat convention in Sacramento on July 5th and 6th to see how many rats were there ( 18 including our spies ). Phone records will be produced in the coming lawsuit which will show 1) that I was not on the phone call; and 2) the identities of the 7 ( at most ) people who were. Those persons will be included in the coming lawsuit and will pay appropriate monetary damages for their actions against the AIP; of which I am still the Vice-Chairman. 3) The phone meeting protocol originally enacted was designed for greater communication among members. It was never approved for voting on issues as occurs at a formal central committee meeting nor to take the place of such a physical meeting. Additionally any state central committee meeting is of course held only when giving ALL of the members proper notice so that they can attend. The Robinson, Seidenberg, Noonan phone meeting of 6-27 was keep secret from the majority of the committee in order to rig the vote. Lastly – Mark : I have initiated the process of gathering the evidence in appropriate legal form which will be used to demonstrate and document the fraud and conspiracy of you, Robinson, and Noonan. In the next few weeks we will clarify our legal plan but I am sure that it will include multiple facets inclusive of discussions with the offices of the Secretary of State and Attorney General regarding the fraud which you, Noonan, and Robinson have committed.

  49. Don Grundmann Says:

    ” Flashback to Reform Party politics….”

    Response : Yes, Reed. A ” flashback.” Esspecially since Mark Seidenberg had a hand in assassinating the Reform Party and now wants to stand over the body of another murder victim, the CP. It’s not going to happen. He will be brought to justice.

  50. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    I was the Chairman of the 2008 Convention of the American Independent
    Party. Its location was designated by the AIP SCC for the Auditorium of the Secretary of State Building on July 5, 2008. It was only a one day
    convention, so Dr. Don Grundmann could not have been at the AIP
    Convention on July 6, 2008, because that convention was over on July 5,
    2008. At the convention we picked the ticket of Alan Keyes and Wiley S. Drake Sr. We also picket the AIP 55 Electors.

    Don Grundmann, please reply and inform the readers that you did not
    attend the AIP Convention on July 6, 2008, because there was no AIP
    Convention.

    TO: DON GRUNDMANN, Why would anybody send a “spy” to an open
    meeting. That sounds so silly.

    Who are the spies? I recall that on the July 20, 2007 meeting the AIP
    SCC removed Mrs. Rayna Mike King, wife of Jim King because she was
    a registered Republican. I recall you voted for Rayna Mike King removal.
    Do we have Republican spies attending meetings to distroy the AIP.
    No what maybe the threat is now from the Constitution Party which
    AIP left on June 27, 2008. Or is it the Nazi’s trying to repeat what they
    did in 1971-1972.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party

  51. Don Grundmann Says:

    ” Mark Seidenberg Says:

    August 31st, 2008 at 10:13 pm
    I was the Chairman of the 2008 Convention of the American Independent
    Party. Its location was designated by the AIP SCC for the Auditorium of the Secretary of State Building on July 5, 2008. It was only a one day
    convention, so Dr. Don Grundmann could not have been at the AIP
    Convention on July 6, 2008, because that convention was over on July 5,
    2008. At the convention we picked the ticket of Alan Keyes and Wiley S. Drake Sr. We also picket the AIP 55 Electors.”

    Response : Mark – You saw me walk through the door you idiot. I was there on Saturday the 5th. Your rat convention was scheduled for the 5th and 6th. Can you ever be sane or truthful? Designated means they gave you the room. They inferred no legitimacy on your corruption.

  52. Don Grundmann Says:

    ” TO: DON GRUNDMANN, Why would anybody send a “spy” to an open
    meeting. That sounds so silly.

    Who are the spies? I recall that on the July 20, 2007 meeting the AIP
    SCC removed Mrs. Rayna Mike King, wife of Jim King because she was
    a registered Republican. I recall you voted for Rayna Mike King removal.”

    Response : To vote against Rayna was my mistake. I was still accepting information coming from you as honest. I did not understand how totally corrupt and what a complete and total liar you are. So yes I made a shameful vote as I did not bother to check the information ( false ) which you presented. My fault. I will certainly never make the mistake of trusting anything you say ever again. I will inform everyone I know to do the same thing and to treat anything that you say or do as equal to coming from a toxic waste dump. I now know that even when you are simply breathing you are lying even without saying a word.

  53. Don Grundmann Says:

    ” No what maybe the threat is now from the Constitution Party which
    AIP left on June 27, 2008.”

    Response : The AIP never left the CP. Jim King is the Chair, I am the Vice-Chair, we will prove it all in court and you, Robinson, Noonan, and ( especially ) Keyes will be exposed in the public forum as the liars that you are. I am gathering the evidence for our victory even now. Tell your Republican money bags that they should get ready to start shoveling it to you. We will defeat your corruption now matter how long it takes.

  54. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    I was the 2008 Chairman of the AIP Convention. The Convention of the
    AIP only lasted one day, viz., July 5, 2008. It took place at the location
    designated by the American Independent Party State Central Committee, viz., the Auditorium of the California Secretary of State Building. The current Chairman of the American Independent Party is Ed Noonan of
    Marysville, CA and the Vice Chairman is myself. We were elected for a
    two year term on September 3, 2006 at a SCC meeting in Rancho Cordova, Sacramento County, CA.

    Jim King is not the Chair nor is Dr. Don Grundmann the Vice Chair of the
    AIP. Jim King and Don Grundmann voted at the Rancho Cordova SCC
    meeting on September 3, 2006 for Noonan as Chairman and Seidenberg
    as Vice Chairman.

    The AIP SCC ended it relationship with the CP at the meeting on June 27,
    2008. The AIP SCC on June 27, 2008 established a connection with the
    America’s Independent Party of Fenton, MI.

    Rayna Mike King left the Republican Party on or about July 25, 2007, viz.,
    5 days after Don Grundmann voted to remover her as a member of both
    the National Committee and State Central Committee of the AIP. Rayna
    at the time of her removal from these committees was list on her own web
    site as “Republican Business Woman of the Year”.

    I was the elected chairman of the delegation from California to the April,
    2008, convention in Kansas City, MO of the CP. Jim King’s vote went to
    Alan Keyes. Don Grundmann directed me first to cast his vote for President to himself and then cast his vote to Chuck Baldwin.

    Don Grundmann did not state who were the spys or why one needed spys at open meeting of the American Independent Party.

    To Don Grundmann: The Court hearing is now over. Judge Kenny in Department 31 of the Sacramento Superior Court ruled that Alan Keyes
    and Wiley Drake are on the November ballot.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party.

  55. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    TO: Don Grundmann

    The CP can do its own thing. I do not want to see the CP dead. All the AIP
    did on June 27, 2008 end its relationship with the CP. I understand that the
    CP will be placing Balwin and Castle as write-ins on the November, 2008 ballot. So, Don what was your source that the AIP was to have a convention for July 6th also? The AIP Convention for 2008 lasted only
    one day, viz., July 5, 2008 and it was held in the Auditorium of the California Secretary of State Building.

  56. Don Grundmann Says:

    ” To Don Grundmann: The Court hearing is now over. Judge Kenny in Department 31 of the Sacramento Superior Court ruled that Alan Keyes
    and Wiley Drake are on the November ballot.”

    Response : Keyes and Drake are on the ballot so you, via your corrupt ” meeting ” of 6-27 which you used to produce the fraudulent document which you submitted to the SOS office, have achieved your objective of knocking Baldwin off of the ballot. But you don’t control the party. I will see you in court where we will prove that your gang deliberately produced a false document and filed it with the SOS office in a conscious attempt to deceive the SOS and hence to defraud the AIP and the CP in addition to consciously defrauding the majority of the State Central Committee of their right to vote. I will be contacting the SOS office and the Attorney Generals office and presenting the evidence to them. A civil suit will be filed. You will all answer for your crimes.

    Don Grundmann; Vice-Chairman of the American Independent Party

  57. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    TO: Don Grundmann

    I have never drafted a “fraudulent document” in my life. The AIP State
    Central Committee met on June 27, 2008 and voted to end it relationship
    with the Constitution Party and started a new with the America’s Independent Party of Fenton, MI. No one to my present knowledge
    used SCC meeting to a “produce fraudulent document which you (Mark Seidenberg) submitted to the SOS office”.
    the WWW
    Further Don, I do not control the American Independent Party, It is the
    State Central Committee with the County Central Committees that with
    the State Chairman controls the AIP.
    Further Don, there is no “frudulant document” produced by anyone that I am associated with that was “submitted to the SOS office”. Please define
    what you mean by “gang”. I have no retrospection of ever joining a gang.

    Don Grundmann stated: “I will see you in court where we will prove that
    your gang deliberately produced a false document and filed it with the SOS
    office in a conscious attempt to deceive the AIP and the CP in addition to
    consciously defrauding the majority of the State Central Committee of their
    right to vote.” First, Don who is in this so-called “gang” and when and where was it formed? I saw you last week in court, viz., Department 31,
    Sacramento Superior Court. Did you see me, but just had a senior moment. Don was the “document” that you believe was “produced” during
    a “corrupt” “meeting” on June 27 and “submitted” [by Mark Seidenberg]
    to the “SOS Office” and also then “filed” by Mark Seidenberg’s own “gang”
    with the “SOS Office” in some public office so I and others might see such
    a strange document by a public records request. If so, please give details
    on this documents location.

    Next, I have never be a member of the Reform Party, so how could I has
    harmed that party.

    You are not the “Vice-Chairman” or Vice Chairman of the American Independent Party. The only office you hold is that of National Committeeman of AIP and your last day in office is tomorrow.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party.
    Ma

  58. Don Grundmann Says:

    Mark : You can claim all you want but you know exactly what the document is, you know exactly how it was produced by fraud and deception, and so much the better if it is you whom actually filed it. Laugh now and get it all out. Have fun. Affidavits are being made right now and the evidence will be collected and submitted to the authorities. Minimally it will be introduced in both the civil suit and in the court when we are officially declared the officers of the party. Hopefully it will be the cornerstone, or one of them, of your prosecution for fraud minimally and all other appropriate criminal statute violations. I will see you in court.

  59. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    TO: Don Grundmann

    I have no idea what document you are making reference to. Who are making “affidavits right now” at 3:01 p.m. on Labor Day, and about what?
    I would never file a document “produced the by fraud and deception” knowingly. Who will introduce “in both the civil suit and in court” the “it”
    document (which is unknown to me) when we are officially “declared the
    officers of the party.”
    .

    The posting of 3:01 p.m by you does not make cut mustard, I was elected
    Vice Chairman of AIP on September 3. 2006 and that was the almost two
    years ago. I really dought that we will run on the same ticket ever again.
    Therefore, I do not believe the State Central Committee of AIP will ever make an “official declarations that Dr. Grundmann is an officer again”. Therefore, their will no “official” declaration and therefore no submissions
    to the authorities, because the declaration in the triger that submission of Grundmann will ever handed to the authorites.

    I do not understand the 3:01 p.m. transmittal of Don Grundmann either.

    If any one out there who think they under what Grundmann is stating please explain it to me. Thanks.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party.

  60. Don Grundmann Says:

    ” Therefore, I do not believe the State Central Committee of AIP will ever make an “official declarations that Dr. Grundmann is an officer again”. Therefore, their will no “official” declaration and therefore no submissions
    to the authorities, because the declaration in the triger that submission of Grundmann will ever handed to the authorites.:|”

    Response : The Los Angeles convention vote of the State Central Committee elected me as Vice-Chairman which I shall be until our next convention in 2010. The presentation of documents to the authorities regarding the commission of fraud and deception by Robinson, Seidenberg, and Noonan; and their active conspiracy to perform such fraud and deception; against the SOS office and the State Central Committee members shall be presented to the authorities in the weeks ahead.

  61. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    Don Grundmann states at the September 2nd 2008 posting of 12:20 am
    the following: “The Los Angeles convention vote of the State Central
    Committee elected me as Vice-Chairman which I shall be until our next convention in 2010.”

    If Dr. Grundmann is making reference to the events of June 28 – 29, 2008,
    he has a major flaw in his view of the events. The day before on June 27,
    2008, the American Independent Party State Central Committee designated the Auditorium of the California Secretary of State Building in
    Sacramento as the location within a Sacramento community for the 2008
    Convention which was prior called by Chairman Ed Noonan subject to the
    approval of the State Central Committee for July 5, 2008. The same June
    27, 2008 SCC the members voted to end all ties with the Constitution Party
    and connect with the America’s Independent Party.

    By the California Election Code the state convention of the American Independent Party and the organizational meeting that follows it the next
    day must take place in the same community in Sacramento. Both Jim
    King and Don Grundmann asservated that they were elected to the office
    of Chairman and Vice-Chairman at a Los Angeles two day convention on
    28 and 29, 2008. By the California Election Code and AIP by laws, it is
    the SCC of AIP that elect its officers in Sacramento one day after the convention in the same community that held the prior convention. Both
    must be in Sacramento by the laws of the State of California. Delegates
    to the party convention do not elect the party officers, because of the
    restriction of the California Election Code. It is the members of the State
    Central Committee that elect its officers. If both the party convention and
    state central committee had a full slate the membership of the SCC would
    be four times the number of delegates. That is why delegates to the
    convention can not elect party officer.

    What Ann E. Thomas did was to call a convention sua sponte in Los Angeles
    with 7 other officers. At that time of this bogus convention the AIP had 21
    party offices. Bottomline is Anne E. Thomas got a minority of AIP party
    officers (with no authority) to call a bogus convention and then do void
    acts of trying to elect party officers, e.g., King and Grundmann.

    The AIP SCC elected the 2008 – 2010 AIP officers on July 6th, 2008 at
    the Auditorium of the California Secretary of State Building in the City of
    Sacramento, CA.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party

  62. 4NIC8 Says:

    To the homosexual Christ Killer (MS) and the little nazi doctor (DG)

    You both deserve a trip to the showers.

  63. RRHeustisJr Says:

    ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

  64. Porter Rockwell Says:

    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

  65. Cody Quirk Says:

    He was a good man and not
    an extremist.

    = He and Thomas Coleman Andrews Jr. took over and destroyed any chance the AIP could’ve been a viable national party. For one, they kicked out the South Carolina Independent Party unjustly and dumped the populist language in the platform.

    =Did you ever read Bill Shearer’s history of the AIP? He stated it was a extremist takeover.

    I had the honor of meeting Tom Anderson twice, once in 1969 and again in 1972. Stop the bashing of JBS.

    = The JBS itself had no hand in it, only that nutjob fringe element that belonged to the JBS. So I am not bashing the JBS.
    Obviously you don’t understand English at all, is that why you thought the convention must be in Sacramento? Even though the State Convention Chapter in the Elections Code says nothing about having to be in Sacramento.

    FYI, the American Party hated the AIP and Bill Shearer and the hostility is still there in whats left of the AP.

  66. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    Cody,

    Both the state convention and the SCC meeting of AIP must be in Sacramento, CA. The AIP by-laws and California Election Code require
    both the State Convention and SCC meeting on the following Sunday to
    be in the same Sacramento communiity. What part of that do you not understand? Re-read the Election Code. If you still can not find it I
    post the section so you my read it.

    The JBS is a society, so the society members reflect the organization.
    So you bashed a great organization again.

    Sincerely, Mark SEidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party.

  67. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    Cody Quirk stated: “Obviously you don’t understand English at all, is that
    why you thought the Convention must be in Sacramento? Even though the
    State Central Chapter in the Election Code says nothing about having to be
    in Sacramento.”

    Cody I have five degrees, so I do understand English. Your statement about the Election is wrong. Please read the following and get education.

    California Election Code section 7608(b) states: “The committee will meet
    in Sacramento…”

    California Election Code section 7620 states: “The committee shall convene
    in the same community where the state convention is held at 10 a.m. on
    the Sunday following the state convention.”

    California Election Code section 7570 states: “The state convention shall
    meet biennially at a location designated by the State Central Committee
    at 10 a.m. on a Saturday following the direct primary election, but in no event later than Augest 15.”

    The AIP SCC on June 27, 2008 voted to have the location designation
    as the Auditorium of the California Secretary of State Building in Sacramento for July 5, 2008. I was the elected Chairman of the 2008
    Convention so I am aware of the SCC AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

    Sincerely, Mark SEidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party.

  68. RRHeustisJr Says:

    Although I am an attorney, I am no expert in Election Law; however, I do believe that Mr. Seidenberg is misapplying the intent of this statute by divorcing its sub-section from its context.

    Mr. Seidenberg relies on Sec. 7608(b), which says, “The committee will meet in Sacramento and the date of the meeting.” (emphasis added)

    However, Mr. Seidenberg omits the rest of the statute, and thus its context.

    When read, it becomes obvious that the entire statute has nothing to do with a mandate that each state convention be held in Sacramento. Instead, the statute’s purpose is for each delegate to send a notice to certain people regarding the meeting:

    7608. Each delegate to the state convention shall send a notice by mail to each person whom he or she has appointed as a member of this committee, that will inform him or her that:

    (a) He or she is a member of the committee.
    (b) The committee will meet in Sacramento and the date of the
    meeting.
    (c) The meeting may be attended either in person or by proxy.
    (d) The proxy shall be in writing, and signed by the member under
    penalty of perjury.

    As one can see, the topic sentence of this statute is focused on each delegate sending notice to certain people about the meeting’s particulars. This explains the CONTEXT of the statute.

    A good argument exists that the contextual intent of this statute is not to mandate that EVERY STATE CONVENTION be held in Sacramento, but rather that every delegate SHALL SEND NOTICE about the state convention.

    One must understand the difference between an indicative statement and an imperative statement. The phrase, “will meet in Sacramento,” is much different than, “SHALL MEET in Sacramento.” The former is indicative, meaning that it provides a description of what is going on; while the latter is imperative.

    If the intent of the statute is to be indicative regarding meeting location, then it doesn’t matter where the meeting occurs as long as it is mentioned in the Notice send by the delegates.

    On the other hand, if the intent of the statute is to be imperative regarding meeting location, then EVERY SINGLE STATE CONVENTION “SHALL BE” HELD IN SACRAMENTO WITHOUT EXCEPTION.

    Had it been the intent of the legislature to require every meeting to be held in Sacramento, then the statute would have been written in the IMPERATIVE, not merely indicative, mood. In other words, it would have been written as, “The Committee shall meet in Sacramento….”

    I also find it telling that all other sections of the Election Code that mention other parties (Republican, Democrat and Peace and Freedom) and their state conventions, are silent on the mandatory location of those parties’ conventions.

    Does Mr. Seidenberg actually mean to tell us that only the American Independent Party – and no other party in California – is required to hold its state convention in Sacramento every single time without exception?

    Such an interpretation is absolutely preposterous and manifestly unjust on its face, especially to people in the southern portion of the state who do not have the means to attend distant meetings.

    An open-minded judge may be able to see the absurdity of that dogmatic interpretation.

  69. Bill Lussenheide Says:

    March Fong Eu ruled back in the 1980s that the State of California does not have a compelling interest in forcing a political party to such standards, ie, specific location, or having a chairman alternate between the Northern part of the state and the Southern part, as were in old election codes.

    The section Mr. Seidenberg, et al, continue to quote about Sacramento is considered vestigal and no longer applicable.

    Mr. Noonan was named Chairman in Rancho Cordova, CA in 2006 and not Sacramento. No one is being ridiculous in claiming that he is not chairman because of the lack of “Sacramento” convention at that time.

  70. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    TO: Bill Lussenheide

    Lussenheide stated that “Noonan was named Chairman in Rancho Cordova,
    CA in 2006 and not Sacramento.” Rancho Cordova is located in Sacramento County so it is in Sacramento. Bill Shearer thought that
    Rancho Cordova was an o.k. place to meet and still make the requirement
    as being in Sacramento. AIP party by laws in 2006 did not have any rules
    for the Convention. The California Election Code was all the party had.
    I think the auditorium in the Secretary of State Building is a great location
    for the convention every two years if the Secratary of State will still let us
    meet there.

    I started my second two year term on September 3, 2008. Thank you
    State Central Committee of the AIP for giving me the honor of serving
    the American Independent Party for another two year term. I also thank
    the delegates to the 2008 Convention held in Sacramento on July 5, 2008
    for electing me the convention chairman.

    Reed Heustis asked: “Does Mr. Seidenberg actually mean to tell us that only American Independent Party-that no other party in California- is
    required to hold it state convention every single time without exception?”

    The answer is I do not know. I do know that by the California Election
    Code does not have the same requirement for other parties. My guess
    other state parties have more expanded by laws than the AIP party does.

    I do not share Mr. Heustis argument that California Election Code section
    7608(b) does not mean what it said, viz., that the AIP convention and SCC
    will be in Sacramento.

    Going to court and asking them what “will” means vs. “shall” means is a waist of money and time. It is far cheaper to continue with Sacramento
    County as our party’s convention and organiizational SCC meeting place.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party.

  71. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    TO: Reed Heustis.

    Follow-up on the issue of “will meet” v. “shall meet”. I had a dream last
    night about the issue and thought of Y’shayahu 62:2 (Isaiah 62:2) and the
    different English translations of “shall see” and “will see”.

    The American Independent Party is not the legislature of the State of California. Therefore, I take the term “will meet in Sacramento” as a
    command by the people of California. I do not see it as a problem.
    Just because section 7608(b) did not say “shall meet in Sacramento”
    but said “will meet in Sacramento” does not make it not binding on our
    party.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party

  72. Don Grundmann Says:

    ” I started my second two year term on September 3, 2008. Thank you
    State Central Committee of the AIP for giving me the honor of serving
    the American Independent Party for another two year term. I also thank
    the delegates to the 2008 Convention held in Sacramento on July 5, 2008
    for electing me the convention chairman.”

    Response : As the true Vice-Chairman of the American Independent Party ( until our next convention in 2010 ) I write to challenge the lie ( yet another out of a endless string of such ) that he is Vice-Chairman. During the continuance of my term as Vice-Chairman I will continue to expose the corruption of Seidenberg, Noonan, and Robinson to the people of our state even after their defeat in the numerous court battles which are to come. Their corruption and their attack upon the AIP will be defeated.

  73. Don Grundmann Says:

    ” The American Independent Party is not the legislature of the State of California. Therefore, I take the term “will meet in Sacramento” as a
    command by the people of California. I do not see it as a problem.
    Just because section 7608(b) did not say “shall meet in Sacramento”
    but said “will meet in Sacramento” does not make it not binding on our
    party.”

    Response : And here we have a perfect expression of the psychotic reasoning behind the actions of Mark Seidenberg. Creating ” laws ” out of whole cloth and ignoring/twisting the wording of statutes that exist is par for the course in his continued actions to deny both his own corruption and that of his fellow criminals in addition to denying the registered voters of the AIP their true choice as a candidate for the Presidency. Seidenberg and his fellow criminals have always feared a true vote regarding anything so they have held fake meetings, filed false documents with the state, and conducted themselves just as you would expect criminals to conduct themselves. And here is the basis of their thoughts : the hell with the law as I will just interpret it to suit my needs; i.e; support my criminality. Here it is in the open for all to see.

  74. RRHeustisJr Says:

    Seidenberg says:
    Just because section 7608(b) did not say “shall meet in Sacramento”
    but said “will meet in Sacramento” does not make it not binding on our
    party.

    The logic works both ways.

    Simply because the statute says “will meet in Sacramento” rather than “shall meet in Sacramento” does not make perpetual Sacramento meetings binding on the party.

    When it comes to statutory construction where ambiguity arises, an inquiry into legislative intent must be conducted. (i.e., What did the legislature intend when they wrote, “will meet?”)

    In front of a judge, your attorneys will be forced to assert that the legislature somehow intended that only the American Independent Party – and no other political party in California – is required to hold every single state convention in Sacramento for eternity until the legislature amends the statute.

    A judge will decide the issue on the reasonableness of the argument. In my opinion, I do not believe that a judge will find your assertion to be reasonable, and therefore, it is very possible that the judge will rule the “will meet” clause as unbinding.

    How is it possibly reasonable to conclude that the legislature intended only the AIP - and no other party – to be forced to hold every state convention in Sacramento? It is unreasonable on its face.

    Thus, it will not be a “waist” (sic) of time for Jim King, et. al. to litigate the issue(s).

    Of course, that’s just my opinion, and opinions are like belly buttons – everyone has one.

  75. Bill Lussenheide Says:

    Reed:

    March Fong Eu ruled back in the 1980s that the State of California does not have a compelling interest in forcing a political party to such standards, ie, specific location, or having a chairman alternate between the Northern part of the state and the Southern part, as were in old election codes.

    Thus there is case history for this.

  76. Cody Quirk Says:

    “The JBS is a society, so the society members reflect the organization.
    So you bashed a great organization again.”

    = What about John Schmitz? He was a John Bircher, and yet he was kicked out of the JBS since he became anti-semitic.

    If you think ALL members of the JBS are perfect, then you don’t live in the real world.

    “Both the state convention and the SCC meeting of AIP must be in Sacramento, CA. The AIP by-laws and California Election Code require
    both the State Convention and SCC meeting on the following Sunday to
    be in the same Sacramento communiity. What part of that do you not understand? Re-read the Election Code. If you still can not find it I
    post the section so you my read it.”

    = I have, and funny that 7608(b) only talks about the State Committee meeting in Sacramento, NOT the Convention itself!
    And yet 7608(b) is listed in the Chapter of the State Central Committee (Chapter 3) and not Chapter 2 (the State Convention), in 7570, it says:

    “The state convention shall meet biennially, at a location
    designated by the state central committee, at 10 a.m. on a Saturday
    following the direct primary election, but in no event later than
    August 15.”

    Yet it doesn’t say in 7570 that the convention HAS to be in Sacramento, Which shows that your argument is based only on your interpretation.

    My, would you make Earl Warren proud!

    Now tell me Mark, where in the Elections Code does the State Chair have the authority to kick out members of the State Committee?

  77. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    TO: Cody Quirk

    You asked a question of “authority to kick out members of the State Committee”. I am not sure what you are talking about. Our you talking
    about the issue of the wife of James King, viz., Rayna Mike-King which
    Don Grundmann voted to remove on July 20, 2007 from the AIP National
    Committee? An issue that was raised above.

    At the time of that July 20, 2007 meeting Mrs. King was registered in Los
    Angeles County as Republican and listed on her own web site as a “Republican Business Woman of the Year”. Because of that party
    registration she could not be on the SCC and also could not be on the
    National Committee either.

    I do note that on or about July 25, 2005 she was a member of the AIP
    as of filing a new registration. I remember that Gary Odom told me that
    Rayna end that connection with the Republican Party about a week prior
    to that SCC meeting so we should not remove her from the National Committee. I checked again with the Los Angeles County Registrar of
    Voters after talking with Mr. Odom and was informed by my contact
    there that Rayna Mike was still a Republican. Therefore, I acted to protect
    the party for Republicans taking control and acted.

    Does you question relate to that issue? If not, I do not know what you are
    taking about.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman and National Committeeman,
    American Independent Party.

  78. RRHeustisJr Says:

    Bill says:
    Thus there is case history for this.

    What is the case name? I don’t recall March Fong Eu serving as a judge. Thus her decision probably doesn’t mean much.

  79. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    Cody Quirk now you are on the case of John Schmitz. First, I have no reason to believe that he was kick out of the JBS. As I recall he just did
    not renew his membership. I do no believe you about Schmitz being anti-semitic. He was a friend to the Jewish People and to this Jew in partular.
    I recall his kindness, by writing me a great letter of recommendation to
    graduate school about 37 years ago. That help get me in to UCLA. In 1972, I was chairman at UCLA of Bruins for Schmitz while I was in the School of Education. I recall the table the Bruin AIP had set up during
    the period of October, 1972 at UCLA and help man it. I have for years
    thought of the Bruin AIP chairman, but have a senior moment so I can
    not recall his name. He was an engineering student at the time. If he
    is out there and reads this. Contact the AIP, we have a great ticket this
    year with Alan Keyes and Wiley Drake and can use your help.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Indepedent Party.

  80. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    Cody Quirk stated that some how Chapter 2 and 3 must be read apart. That is not true. One needs to read all section of the Part together, not just
    by Chapter. Remember the SCC meeting must be in the same community
    as the convention. Therefore Sacramento applies to both meetings.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party

  81. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    Reed Heustis asked: How is possibly reasonable that the legislature intended only the AIP-and not other party- to be forced to
    hold every state convention in SacramentoAmerican Independen?

    Reed Heustis because the State Central Committee approved of these laws in its by-laws.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party

  82. RRHeustisJr Says:

    Seidenberg rationalizes:

    ...because the State Central Committee approved of these laws in its by-laws.

    That’s a weak response.

    If that were truly the case, then the AIP State Central Committee would have held every meeting in Sacramento since it “approved” of the Election Code.

    The fact that it did not reveals that it too never intended for every meeting to be held in Sacramento.

    Your arguments are really good ones … for the other side.

  83. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    TO: Reed Heustis

    What other side? At each meeting of the SCC by laws could and have changed.

    The By-Laws in effect at the June 27, 2008 governed the call of the
    July 6, 2008 SCC meeting. The SCC approve the location in SAcramento.

    Reed you are wrong, the only required SCC meeting in SAcramento is the
    organizational. Other SCC meeting can be any where in the State.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg American Independent Party, Vice Chairman,

  84. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    TO: Reed Heustis

    I did not join the AIP until early in 2004. You were the Vice Chairman when I joined. I was appointed to the SCC at the Riverside meeting.
    Next I was the Chairman of Orange County Central Committee and then
    a National Committeeman and then the Vice Chairman.

    I know Bill Shearer looked on Rancho Cordova as a location in Sacramento
    to meet the requirement of Election Code 7608(b). Since I joined the AIP,
    conventions have been only in Sacramento.

    Do you think it is worth the time and expense to lobby the State Legislature
    to remove the requirement that AIP conventions be held in Sacramento?
    What every we do it needs to start with a calling of a special meeting
    of the AIP SCC. The business we should discuss needs also in my mind
    to end the two year term of officers for the 2010 – 2012 term only.
    As of now terms run between September 3 through September 2 biennially.

    My idea is the term of office for the period 2010 to 2012 should run from
    September 3, 2010 and end on August 17, 2012, and the biennially thereafter. With the exeption that if August 17th falls on a Saturday,
    Sunday, or Legal Holiday the term is extended to the first business day thereafter. Further all changes of office should take place at noon and
    not at midnight as now.

    I have another idea. This relates to the holding of the the convention.
    As of now we conduct party conventions on Saturdays starting at 10 a.m.
    in Sacramento and our organizational SCC meetings on the following
    Sunday at 10 am. In effect the State Legislature not only sets Sacramento
    for these meetings (with the requirement that these two meeting are in the
    same Sacramento community) but it sets time and day of these meetings
    within a date window.

    I want to increase membership and delegate size for both the Convention
    and the State Central Committee. If we can convince the state legislature
    that the convention and meeting can take place other than the weekend
    the Sabbath can be observed. What do you think about a weekday meeting for both the convention and SCC?

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party.

  85. Cody Quirk Says:

    Bill Shearer noted Schmitz’s anti-semitism in the written history of the AIP, and John Schmitz was remembered saying the Jews were:

    “like everybody else, only more so.”

    And he was kicked out of the national council of the JBS because he went too far in his extreminism.

    http://www.johngschmitz.com/Editorial.htm

    Another JBS member and co-founder, Revilo P. Oliver, who happened to be a White supremacist, later broke with the JBS and helped found the National Alliance.

    Again, you are living in a dream world if you think ALL Birchers past and present cannot do any wrong.
    Every political organization has a kook element to it, Mark.

    And I remember that Ed Noonan was expelling people left and right earlier this year and last year. David Christensen was one.

    And there you go again interpreting the Elections Code to fit your distorted view.
    Then again Mark, since Section 7570 in the Code says to have a Convention no later then August 15th, that means that the 2006 Convention is invalid because it was held on September 1-3 starting at 9:30am on that Saturday.

    So Ed Noonan was serving as Chairman illegally since 2006!

    ...According to your logic.

  86. Cody Quirk Says:

    Oh yes Mark,

    The JBS recently conducted a poll, and it looks like Chuck Baldwin is the Number One pick.

    http://www.jbs.org/index.php/component/poll/6-who-will-you-support-for-president

    Eat your heart out!

  87. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    Cody Quark,

    You are incorrect the convention was just one day, viz., September 2, 2006. That would have not have any effect on the election of Ed
    Noonan, because he was not elected at the convention but he was
    elected at the State Central Committee Meeting on September 3, 2006 and it was called just after 10 a.m.

    As to the pole, Alan Keyes was not included in that canvass. The bottom
    line is Alan Keyes and Wiley Drake are on the California Ballot in

  88. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    November, 2008.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party..

  89. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    Cody Quirk,

    First I am sorry I made error on your name spelling. I did not proof what I
    typed at the 2:14 post.

    David Christensen was not expelled by Ed Noonan. The problem with Mr.
    David Christensen membership came out during the July 20, 2007 state
    central committee, when the scc rejected the report of the Secretary’s
    minates for the scc of September 3, 2006. We had no documents showing
    how David Christensen and Ann Thomas got on the State Central Committee, since they could not have been delegates to the 2006 convention. I recall the scc then made Mr. Christensen a member of the
    body. Ann Thomas was not. Secretary Thomas at the time said that she
    most not be a member of scc and walked out of the body.

    As I see it now, Ann Thomas was elected Secretary of the AIP, but without
    being a member of the scc. Since, the by-laws in place for the September
    3, 2006 scc meeting did not restrict the selection of officers to being on the
    state central committee. Ann Thomas was an officer, but not a member of the scc.

    Fast forward to the events of June 28 to 29, 2008 in Los Angeles. I am informed that Ann Thomas asseverated that she called it to “order”. She
    was neither a delegate or member of the scc, so by the manual of parlimentary proceedure approved at the July 20, 2007 meeting, Ann Thomas had no authority to call it to order, because she was a non-member officer. If a call to order comes from someone else other than theChairman or Vice Chairman it most be a member of the body, not a
    non-member officer. Therefore, their was no real call to order.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party.

  90. Cody Quirk Says:

    Irregardless Mark,

    Ed was elected Chair AFTER August 15th. The 2006 State Convention was held AFTER August 15th.

    I guess the 2006 Convention is illegal then, since it violated Sec. 7570. And Ed’s term is legally questionable.

    OOTS, As a Bircher, you should’ve notified the JBS to put Alan Keyes in that poll, but you didn’t. I thought you were on top of things? And nevertheless Baldwin emerged victorious.

    Baldwin will also be on way more ballots then Keyes will and get more votes then Keyes too nationally. Baldwin will even have write-in status in California, and also with Texas, Indiana, New York, Arizona, and others. We look to have Baldwin on in 37 states and have write-in status in 11 other states.

    Another thing, unless you and Markham want to open peace negotiations with Jim King and the others, and are in need a intermediator, don’t bother calling me.

  91. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    TO: Cody Quirk

    You stated that “Ed was elected Chair AFTER August 15th.” I agree, Ed
    Noonan took office on September 3rd, 2006. This chair has complete
    his term. So why is this important?

  92. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    TO: Cody Quirk

    Follow-up to my last reply. It is a fact that Ed Noonan was elected Chairman of the American Independent Party at a meeting of the
    State Central Committee on September 3, 2006. His term was for
    two years, He is no longer the State Chairman, because his last
    day of his term of office was on September 2, 2008.

    The current state chairman is Markham Robinson. He took the office of
    Chairman of the American Independent Party on September 3, 2008.
    His terms last day is September 2, 2010. He was elected by the American
    Independent Party State Central Committee on July 6, 2008 at the auditorium of the California Secretary of State Building, Sacramento, CA.

    The next court event will be in San Francisco on September 12, 2008 at
    9:00 a.m. How many of the Party faithful remember the Convention at
    San Francisco in 1980?

  93. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    TO: Cody Quirk

    How is Kansas counted? Is it included in your count of 37 states or not?
    I understand that Dr. Balwin did not make the Kansas State Ballot.

    I understand the Baldwin faction can’t find a attorney in Kansas either.
    Do you know if the CP will hire the same Brewtown Lawyer as they did
    in Sacramento?

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party.

  94. Cody Quirk Says:

    The Kansas SoS unjustly took him off the ballot, even though the ballot qualified Kansas Reform Party nominated him for their ballot.

    Richard Winger says of the Situation-

    “The only candidates for elector certified to the Kansas Secretary of State have said they will vote for Baldwin if they are elected to the electoral college. The Kansas Secretary of State has no logic on his side.”

    BTW, Keyes can’t even get on in Maryland, let alone the 47 other states.

  95. Cody Quirk Says:

    You stated that “Ed was elected Chair AFTER August 15th.” I agree, Ed
    Noonan took office on September 3rd, 2006. This chair has complete
    his term. So why is this important?

    = that makes his whole term illegal and invalid, by your logic.

  96. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    TO: Cody Quirk

    First, You did not state if Kansas was in your count of 37 states or not.
    Again, did Cody Quirk count 37 states that included Kansas or not. If
    he did than he should inform reader that there are only 36 states that
    Baldwin is on the ballot. What we know is that Alan Keyes and Paster
    Wiley S. Drake, Sr. are on the California Ballot, but Charles Baldwin &
    D. Castle are not.

    Cody, Ed Noonan took office on September 3, 2006. He served one two
    year term. His term was legal, because he was elected Chairman by the
    AIP State Central Committee. The August 15, 2006 date related to the
    Convention and not the State Central Committee. If I understand your
    views now, you are stating that in 2006 on the connection with the
    Constitution Party the AIP voted on at a so-called joining, but it was void in your mind because that meeting was conducted after August 15, 2006.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party.

  97. Cody Quirk Says:

    However Chuck Baldwin will have write-in status in California, and he plans to do some more campaigning in California in a few weeks.

    Chuck Baldwin was even on the Lou Dobbs show recently, and attended the Ron Paul press conference.

    Can Alan top that?

    You claim that Kansas doesn’t count, but its being disputed, so unless a Judge says the SoS is justified in his grounds, it isn’t official that we’re not going to be on.

    You just said that the August 15th date is related to the State Convention only, yet the State Convention took place AFTER the 15th, and Ed became Chair after the 15th; Its funny, but I thought that we elect our officers at the Convention, as it says we’re supposed to do in the ‘General Business’ Section of the State Convention Chapter in the Election Codes.

    I can’t find anything saying that we can elect the Chairman for the Party itself in the Election Codes that address the State Committee Chapter.

    I guess we made another boo-boo.

    So Ed being made State Chair at the State Committee meeting isn’t legal either, is it?
    After all, the Election Codes only allows a ‘temporary Chairman’ to be elected for the State Committee meeting.

  98. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    To: Cody Quirk

    Read California Election Code sections 7637 and 7640. The officers are
    elected by the state central committee and not the convention. It was
    claimed by Jim King’s lawyer and by Don Grundmann that they were elected at the bogus “Los Angeles Convention”. This is not law in California.

    That

  99. Cody Quirk Says:

    Yet read Sec. 7575, 7577 & 7579.

    BTW, how was that State Committee meeting, in which you disaffiliated from the CP, legally valid? Yet you did not notify many of the committee members.

    Why was the planned convention in Sacramento in early July canceled in the first place Mark?

  100. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    Cody Quirk said: “Why was the planned convention in Sacramento in early
    July canceled in the first place Mark?”

    If your concern was the American Independent Party Convention of 2008
    it was never canceled. That convention was in fact held on July 5, 2008 and I was the elected chairman of that convention.

    If your concern was the convention of 2006, it is news to me that a July
    convention in 2006 was ever called. Nancy would be the person to ask
    that question of. She did not bring up the date and location of the convention place of designation at the Los Angeles AIP State Central
    Committee meeting. She did not even tell the SCC that we had no current
    vice chairman, even though Joseph Bannister gave her a letter of resignation effective at 12:00 midnight on December 31- January 1.

    The bottom line by the time the “convention of ‘06” came around on September 2, 2006, Nancy was no longer the Chairman of AIP nor was
    she a delegate to the “convention of ‘06”, because of her term limit of two
    years had passed.

    If it was not the 2006 convention that you concerned about then it most
    be the events of 2002 and that is way before my time in the party. However, Jim King or Reed Heustis would be the best persons to ask as
    to why the state by-laws and election code was not followed on their
    watch.

    The good news is the current national party, i.e., America’s Independent
    Party is getting organized around the country.

    I am sorry I did not get back sooner, but I was up late last night at Barona
    on they way home from by flight south from San Francisco. I was in San
    Francisco helping the AIP’s Chairmans lawsuit in the United States District
    Court to get John S. McCain III off the California ballot, because he was
    born in the City of Colon, Republic of Panama and not in the Panama Canal
    Zone as the McCain campaign is asseverating.

    John S. McCain III was born in the Panama Canal Company Hospital in the
    City of Colon on August 29, 1936. At that time the entire City of Colon
    was on an island and not part of the Canal Zone. Therefore, under 8 USC
    section 5e he was “colectively naturalized” a United States Citizen on
    August 4, 1937 only if McCain’s father was employed by the United States Goverment on August 29, 1936 and was present in the Republic of Panama at the time of conseption (near or on December 5, 1935) under the current reading of the interpretation of the Department of States Foreign Affairs Manuel. McCain was born an alian under United States Law to an American Citizen mother who’s employment status did not include
    John S. McCain III any rights to United States Citizenship under S2416.
    Therefore, the status of preported marriage between John S. McCain II
    and Roberta McCain n’ee Wright at Caesar’s Bar in Tijuana, Mexico of
    January 21, 1933 becomes very important, viz., was the witnesses to the
    marriage in Mexico the required 48 hours before they acted as such, under
    the law in Baja California, or did they drive down in the same automobile
    with Jack and Roberta that day from Long Beach, California. Remember
    also Reberta Wright was a minor at the time Jack McCain took her across
    the California- Baja California Border on January 21, 1933. Further Jack
    and Roberta between January 21, 1933 until August 29, 1936 never vist a
    common law marriage state.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party.

  101. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    To Cody Quirk:

    I now think I understand your confussion about the elections of officers and the convention on the AIP on July 5, 2008.

    You do not understand what the term “perminent officers” mean under the
    California Election Code. It relates to the holding of office for one day only
    during the one day long convention. I was the holder of the “perminent
    officer” of Chairman having been elected to such by the delegates to the
    AIP Convention of 2008. Do not feel to bad about this. You were not
    alone, because Don Grundmann, Ann E. Thomas, and the Brewtown lawyer
    of Jim King made the same error in there posting on TPW or in the pleadings of King v. Bowen.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party

  102. Cody Quirk Says:

    If your concern was the American Independent Party Convention of 2008
    it was never canceled. That convention was in fact held on July 5, 2008 and I was the elected chairman of that convention.

    = Sorry, I meant early June (2008), I was talking about the one that was going to be held at the Dennys.

    You have to remember Mark, that the Cali. Elections Codes are not 100% clear on certain guidelines. Only some portions of the Codes were updated and some portions were not, putting your arguments on shaky ground.

    And who is the National Chair of the A(i)P? How many state affiliates do you have up and running besides Kentucky?

    BTW, can you explain to me how that state committee meeting which which the committee ‘unanimously disaffiated from the CP was legal?

  103. Cody Quirk Says:

    And not to bust your bubble, but the Political Establishment will seek to appeal it all the way to the Supreme Court AND also rally the two parties to change the requirements for becoming Prez.- If you’re sucessful in the lawsuit.

    They also would use the current infighting against you and Markham too.

  104. Cody Quirk Says:

    And also, we will be on the ballot in Kansas after all.

  105. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    The suggestion of Dennys was the idea of the host County, viz., Sacramento County leaders of the AIP. To many delegates suggested
    the repeat of the location of the July 20, 2007. Both Charles Deemer and
    Elliott Graham told me they did not like the idea of meeting at Dennys
    in a conversation just before I left for Kansas City at the end of April.

    The event in Reno on May 2 & 3 convinced me the best time period for
    a convention was the 4th of July weekend, because of IAP small turnout
    in Reno.

    Cody, you are wrong when you say the California Election Codes are not
    100 % clear. The parts of the Code I have read were very clear. I believe
    your questions on the America’s Independent Party should be directed
    the office in Fenton, MI.

    Does the Independent American Party of Nev

  106. Cody Quirk Says:

    The parts of the Code I have read were very clear.

    = According to your interpretation.

    I believe
    your questions on the America’s Independent Party should be directed
    the office in Fenton, MI.

    = Didn’t you attend their ‘national convention’? I thought you would know.

    Restate your question about Nevada.

    One thing’s for sure, we’re in better shape then you and larger (pecentage wise).

    Did you know that 6.3% of all registered voters in Eureka County are IAP?

  107. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    To Cody Quirk
    Yes it was news to me the Eureka County has a registration of 6.3 % IAP.

    Is it news to you that at one of the five supervisorial districts in Alpine County has more AIP voters than Republican voters.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party

  108. Cody Quirk Says:

    According to the voter reg. stats as of September 5th…

    http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ror/60day_presgen_08/supervisorial.xls

    No, you don’t.

    We also have a elected office holder in Eureka too.

    BTW, unless you want to work things out with Jim King & company, don’t call me.

  109. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    Cody

    You are correct, I guess the AIP lost its lead in that district in Alpine County.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party

  110. Cody Quirk Says:

    Understood.

    So, are you and the others disappointed in Ron Paul endorsing Chuck Baldwin over Alan Keyes?

    BTW, be sure to inform Ed Noonan about this-

    http://mormonsforbaldwin.wordpress.com

    Ed Claimed that Chuck was anti-Mormon, yet here is this LDS group supporting Baldwin and even have videos on their website of Baldwin saying nice things about Mormons.

    I don’t understand Ed’s logic here.

  111. Cody Quirk Says:

    Guess I got my answer.

    Silence.

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