‘The Barr campaign is over,’ says David F. Nolan

David F. Nolan was the first national chair of the Libertarian Party, having been the prime mover behind its formation in 1971. On his Nolan Chart website he says:

As of yesterday afternoon, Bob Barr’s Presidential campaign is effectively over. There were signs of serious trouble even before yesterday, but his “no-show” at Ron Paul’s Campaign for Liberty news conference—followed by an insulting suggestion that Ron should join Barr on the LP ticket in the VP slot—demonstrated just how out-of-touch the Barr campaign is, and how poor Barr’s vote total is likely to be.

Despite his unsparing criticism of those actions, Nolan says:

By all means, vote for Bob Barr in November. I plan to, and I urge every Libertarian to do likewise. Whatever vote Barr receives will be seen by most people as “the Libertarian vote” and we want that to be as high as possible. And if you want to campaign for Barr locally, then do so. Print up flyers, put up homemade campaign signs, etc. But do not, under any circumstances, send any money to the Barr ‘08 campaign. Most of the money will be wasted, and the rest will be spent muddying the waters about what genuine libertarianism is all about.

110 Responses to “‘The Barr campaign is over,’ says David F. Nolan”

  1. Fielding J. Hurst Says:

    Ouch! I tried to donate the other day and his website was screwy. Tried 3 browsers, two different payment methods and just got a white screen. I guess I was lucky considering his comments on Ron Paul the next day.

  2. Benjamin Vander Jagt Says:

    “Whatever vote Barr receives will be seen by most people as “the Libertarian vote” and we want that to be as high as possible.”

    When a food product manufacturer puts out a run of bad food, they don’t urge people to SELL SELL SELL. They recall the product, to save face, save the brand, and demonstrate principles. They recall the product, because they care about their customers.

    If you want freedom, always vote libertarian, and that usually means voting (L)ibertarian. Go ahead and vote for the Libertarians running for other offices. Remember, being a voter doesn’t mean you get one vote. It means you get hundreds! And if there isn’t a libertarian running for office in your area, then run! But a vote for someone you don’t agree with, even a third party, is a WASTED VOTE!

  3. Raoul Duke Says:

    David Nolan was over long ago.

  4. Jack Tanner Says:

    Since Bob Barr was elected as the Libertarian candidate for President, his campaign provided more positive comments and interviews in the news media, about the Libertarian Party, than all the previous Libertarian candidates.

    Continue the Revolution, wave and place President BARR signs.

    We get positive response in our area with
    President BARR wave and yard signs (80 cents)

    http://www.artypeinc.com/store/

    http://bobbarr.meetup.com/65

  5. Dr.Gonzo Says:

    David Nolan was over long ago

    Sad, but true.

    He is largely irrelevant in the party he helped build.

  6. Kenny Says:

    @ Jack Tanner

    The store you link to is unofficial. Who profits from that site? Do you have a financial interest in it?

    Where is the Libertarian Party mentioned on Barr’s OFFICIAL merchandise? See http://www.bobbarr2008.com/store/. Where is the LP mentioned on Barr’s website’s frontpage – http://www.bobbarr2008.com/home/skip/?s=0618? There is no link to the LNC site.

    Barr is running as an independent not the Libertarian Party’s nominee. That’s why he thought he could Ron Paul onto his ticket. The Barr campaign no longer respects the LP or its convention. It just wants the money from its members and supporters. FUBARR!

  7. Richard G. Says:

    Libertarians need to grow up. Barr is the best candidate you have ever had. He has brought real attention to the Party and its platform. Ron Paul is over!!

  8. Roscoe Says:

    The only elder statesmen who get any respect are dead. Nolan gets credit for still being engaged with the Party without trying to have dominated it for thirty five years.

  9. Kenny Says:

    Sorry Richard G, but Bob Barr is not a libertarian, not even with a small “l”. He has hijacked the nomination to get ballot access and run as an independent and gain leverage with the GOP.

    My hunch is that Barr is deliberately destroying his campaign. He will then abandon it and endorse McCain. McCain will then endorse Barr for the Senate in 2010.

  10. Dr.Gonzo Says:

    My hunch is that Barr is deliberately destroying his campaign. He will then abandon it and endorse McCain. McCain will then endorse Barr for the Senate in 2010.

    Wow, some people almost make me not favor legalizing all drugs. You are smoking something good to come up with that.

  11. Kenny Says:

    Sorry, Dr Gonzo, I am do not smoke anything. Just take a look at Verney’s pro-Bush statements. Barr wants back in the GOP and had to distance himself from Ron Paul. His VP invitation was a pathetic and unconstitutional stunt. Even if he does not formally abandon his campaign, Barr will be rewarded by the GOP for destroying the LP’s ballot access.

  12. Bryan Says:

    Kenny,

    The front page of Bob Barr’s site provides a link that says “Join the Libertarian Party” and takes you directly to the LP’s membership page. Do your research before making false claims.

  13. Dr.Gonzo Says:

    Kenny,

    They weren’t pro-Bush statements. Giving Bush credit in one area does not make you pro-Bush. Bush has accomplished some good things during his term. To say otherwise is irrational blind hatred.

    I don’t think the GOP really cared about a party that struggles to get 1% of the vote.

  14. Kris Says:

    Ron Paul may be over, but Barrs support base consisted almost completely of RON PAULS SUPPORTERS. Barr needs Pauls supporters to even register on election day. Alienating them, then insulting them, is a surefire way to lose their votes, and to make sure the Libertarian party once again gains ZERO traction.

  15. Kenny Says:

    Bryan, I apologise for missing that link. Where is the LP branding on the site and Barr’s merchandise? Why can’t I buy merchandise bearing a message like “Barr 2008, Libertarian candidate for President”?

  16. ciborium Says:

    Maybe for the same reason that McCain and Obama merchandise doesn’t have party labels on it.

  17. Kenny Says:

    Ciborium, Barr is not even using the LP corporate branding. His merchandise and website could be that of any GOP candidate.

    McCain and Obama are the candidates of the two main parties and don’t need any party name on their stuff.

    It appears that Barr is afraid of being associated with the LP. He is campaigning on his name recognition as a former GOP Congressman rather than the LP’s candidate.

  18. Bryan Says:

    Took the words out of my mouth, ciborium….I’ve yet to see an “Obama, Democratic candidate..” or “McCain, Republican candidate…” sticker.

    Incidentally, Kenny, I DO have a “Bob Barr ‘08, Libertarian for President” bumper sticker on my truck. As for it’s official campaign or a private vendor made it, I don’t know as I received it from a friend. But the materials are out there. Just because Barr uses the word “Liberty” and not “Libertarian” on his bumper stickers is a little much to start claiming he’s part of a conspiracy to bring down the LP. And besides, an endorsement from McCain for Senate would probably be a negative rather than a positive.

  19. Kenny Says:

    Sorry Bryan but I do not buy your “don’t know where it came from” spin. All you have to do is check the official campaign store on BobBarr2008.com. There is no mention of the LP on Barr’s bumper stickers.

    Many GOP candidates use the word “liberty”. Ron Paul is only one example. Bob Barr is the LIBERTARIAN PARTY candidate but you would not know it from his website or merchandise.

  20. Franklin Says:

    Why are there so many statists commenting on this website? And why do they only seem to comment on posts about Bob Barr? Those questions are rhetorical, of course.

    Barr is the best candidate you have ever had.

    “Best” is completely subjective and since most libertarians judge the quality of a candidate on how libertarian they are, they would not agree with you. Barr is the least libertarian candidate to get the LP nomination during my lifetime and a very strong argument can be made that he can’t even loosely be described as a libertarian. If people like Barr, Boortz and Maher are called libertarians then I guess I’ll have to start calling myself a Classical Libertarian.

    My hunch is that Barr is deliberately destroying his campaign. He will then abandon it and endorse McCain. McCain will then endorse Barr for the Senate in 2010.

    DG, the reason people want to believe this is because the only alternative – that the LP is run by people with single-digit IQ’s – is much more disturbing.

    Bush has accomplished some good things during his term.

    Please list one of them here as I need a good laugh.

  21. Dr.Gonzo Says:

    Franklin,

    Calling everyone you disagree with a statist is usually the first sign that you have no real argument.

    Barr is by far the best candidate the LP has ever had because he has gained us more attention than ever before. There are different degrees of Libertarianism. Those “purists” who live in the fantasy world and those of us moderates who realize you have to compromise on some things to succeed in politics.

    And your assertion that Bush has accomplished nothing good also shows your irrational hatred. I dislike Bush as much as anyone, but I can give him credit for some of his accomplishments.

  22. Kenny Says:

    Is to early to say that Barr is the best candidate that the LP has had. Attention is no use if it is negative, e.g. the Ron Paul debacle.

    Barr can only be judged by the votes and new members that he attracts. At the moment, my guess is that Bob Barr will under-poll Ed Clark and Harry Browne.

  23. kristofer Says:

    I am a Ron Paul supporter, A Registered Libertarian and A Bob Barr supporter. I must say I was a little disheartened when I heard that Barr neglected to show up to Ron Pauls 3rd Party group. I do think it is a great thing to RAISE the Awareness of the 3rd Parties. I still plan to Vote and support Bob Barr, but I do think he hurt himself and his campaign by NOT showing up to Ron Pauls party. He does need the support of those Ron Paul people and by alienating them he isnt going to get it. Sure they wont vote for mccant or obama but now they might be more inclined to lean towards a chuck baldwin or nader depending on their stances. Thats not good for the Libertarians or Bob Barrs campaign. Either way I do hope Barr supporters Libertarians and Ron Paul supporters will still get out there and Vote for Bob Barr this year and at the very least another 3rd Party Candidate – NOT the Status Quo Different sides to the same coin contenders.

    check out my blog see all my Bob Barr support
    http://enemyartistkristofer.blogspot.com

  24. Dr.Gonzo Says:

    Kenny,

    I know this isn’t a great judgement, but I have one example of how the membership has grown.

    I joined the Facebook group for the LP about a month before the convention. At that time there was about 2,000 members. Currently the group is reaching almost 5,000 members. Clearly the message is getting out there.

  25. Tom Bryant Says:

    For a campaign that is dead, he is sure getting a ton of media coverage compared to the “living” campaigns of past Libertarian candidates. I wonder why David thinks a campaign that is getting more mainstream press than ever is “dead.”

    Kenny…you do realize that in most states Bob Barr is going to be listed on the general ballot as the Libertarian candidate, right?

    It’s amazing to see the disconnect so many libertarians have with the real political world.

    Dead campaign…Barr doesnt want to associated with the Libertarian Party…sheesh.

  26. MPM Says:

    “followed by an insulting suggestion that Ron should join Barr on the LP ticket in the VP slot”

    Umm, the order of events went in the opposite direction as far as I know. Also, consider this: Barr shows up to the third party pow-wow (which encourages people to vote for ANY third party candidate or not vote at all) only later to have to explain why he’s better, versus not showing up, and simply mentioning he supports their statement when asked about it. Which is less ambiguous to mainstream voters? Also, let’s say a bunch of operating system manufacturers want to band together to oppose Micro$oft and make inroads against them. If they had a conference together, why in hell would Apple want to show up when the other companies there would be so much smaller? It actually would probably TAKE some market share away from them since said hypothetical conference would encourage ANYTHING but Microsoft.

    David Nolan is getting kind of senile.

  27. Franklin Says:

    I dislike Bush as much as anyone, but I can give him credit for some of his accomplishments.

    Then why don’t you? I asked you to name one (even though you are claiming there is more than one – “some of his accomplishments”) but you have yet to do so. Why?

  28. Kenny Says:

    Tom Bryant, I do realize. Bob Barr will be on 46 or 47 ballots at best. Harry Browne, with less money and exposure, was on 50 in 1996 and 49 in 2000. That’s a very poor performance.

    Dr Gonzo, it’s votes not Facebook friends that count. Those “friends” can be a fickle bunch. By the way, what message is Bob Barr putting out on Facebook? Is he promoting the LP, libertarianism or his conservatism?

  29. Dr.Gonzo Says:

    Franklin,

    The list isn’t long, but every President, no matter how bad has accomplishments.

    1. The economy – besides the last 6 months of so the economy has actually been decent. Pulling us out of the recession post-9/11 was no easy task. At one point the stock market was at an all time high, and the unemployement rate was at an all time low. Who knows what changd since then.

    2. His policies in Africa. Probably the only foreign policy success of this administration.

    3. Disarmament of North Korea. We at least for awhile.

    4. Re-engaging Gaddafi.

    5. Showed leadership and tried to unify the country post-9/11. Of course this is really based on if you are a conspiracy theorist or not.

    Like I said, there aren’t a lot. There are some though.

  30. Dr.Gonzo Says:

    Kenny,

    Yeah I understand that is not a great gauge of membership, but the fact that the LP group has more than doubled is a good sign. It shows people are showing interest in the LP.

    This is Barr’s facebook page.

    http://www.new.facebook.com/group.php?gid=10197996931

    He is promoting a Libertarian message.

  31. V Says:

    My observation is that Bob Barr is definately more visible than any other third party candidate. Especially during the conventions, he was on Glen Beck, Fox and other mainstream outlets in prime time. The problem is that he comes across so serious in a time when the average voter, for whatever reason, needs an additional element to keep them interested. Barr just doesn’t sell anything and still looks and comes across as the ultra-conservative Republican of the 1990s.

  32. Kenny Says:

    Thanks for the link, Dr Gonzo. I’ll take a look this evening when I have more time.

    Does anyone know the impact of the Barr campaign on the LP’s membership? That’s a good measure of the campaign’s effectiveness.

  33. Antony Says:

    Numbers of votes are nothing if the principles are undercut to get them.

  34. Jonathan Says:

    http://www.nolanchart.com/article4847.html

    Please read as we ignore Venezuela , give it a thmbs up

  35. Bill Wood Says:

    According to the last LP News , the two months before the LP Convention the new dues paying Membership growth averaged about 400 a month, after LP Convention (June/July) dues paying Membership is about 720 a month.

  36. Dr.Gonzo Says:

    Anthony,

    We are not undercutting our main principles to get votes.

    However, the sad fact of reality is that if you want to succeed in politics you are probably going to compromise some of your principles.

    So the question is which do you want more: to stay unsuccessful and remain 100% true to your principles or to compromise a bit and make a real impact.

  37. Impeach Bush Says:

    As Richard G previously said, Ron Paul is over! He has refused to run as a third party, and he will never join a third party. It’s time to step up and start supporting other candidates. Ron Paul is not the only person who can spread the message and make change. There are too many Paul cultists who will only follow the message if Paul is the leading one. Get behind other people and candidates. Spread the message of liberty yourselves too. Im not saying follow Barr, but at least accept the fact Ron Paul is done!

  38. Kenny Says:

    I agree that the Ron Paul Revolution is over. The newsletter scandal diluted my support for the doctor. Paul should have run as a joint LP-CP candidate. Barr had the opportunity to pick up the RPR votes but he blew it and gave them to Baldwin. The libertarian movement needs a new leader but it cannot be Barr now.

  39. AFH Says:

    It is unthinkable for anyone interested in the overall success of the Libertarian Party to make disparaging comments halfway through the game. If you were playing football, get sacked for a 10 yard loss, and hace a 15 yard penalty applied, the LAST thing you do as a member of the team is start whining about how the game is “effectively over”.

    Analysis of that sort is useful AFTER the game for the team players so that they can do a better job next time. During the game this analysis should be fully on the shoulders of the coaches so they can call the next play.

    Right now, the only thing anyone interested in success should be concentrating on is making sure they are in position to support a “hail mary” play and propping up their team mates so they also perform as well as possible.

  40. Kenny Says:

    Sorry AFH, but if the quarterback is throwing interceptions, you take him out the game and replace him.

  41. Bill Wood Says:

    Is it my imagination? It seems those who are speaking the most against Bob Barr winning the LP nomination for President, are the same folks who say the LP wasn’t formed to run Candidates for Office and running Candidates was an after thought.

  42. Kenny Says:

    AFH, is your “hail mary” play a plan to supplant to Barr with Ruwart? You could get a lot of support for that proposal!

  43. Kenny Says:

    Bill, it is your imagination. Do you think Barr can win?

  44. Jonathan Says:

    what is the Libertarian view of Latin America
    Please make your comments at http://www.nolanchart.com/article4847.html
    and give it a thumbs up please

  45. Marshall Says:

    It is my understanding that membership is way up at the national level and pretty much all state levels also.

    Basically I’ve come to the conclusion that we’re fighting the 2 party system and a lot of Libertarians who are desperate to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. It’s unfortunate about our fellow Libertarians but we’re not talking about a whole lot of people. I am still very confident that we will see the greatest results for a Libertarian running for POTUS

  46. Carl Says:

    Might want to read what David Nolan wrote in 1980 about the Ed Clark campaign.

    That said, I think Nolan may be somewhat right this time. Sarah Palin as VP has pretty much knocked out the win in the Barr campaign’s sails. And Verney’s “credibility through arrogance” strategy is offputting at best. The campaign’s outreach to the Revolution has been abysmal. Coming in behind the Constitution Party is a real possibility.

  47. Odin Says:

    I’ll still vote for Barr more than likely. I don’t understand the Palin comments. Why people think she is near anything Libertarian is beyond me? Did y’all hear her in the ABC interview? Many think libertarianism only in national issues, Ron Paul addressed all international issues really well. War with Russia because of Ossetia after we made up Kosovo?? Jesus!!

  48. Kenny Says:

    Odin, I think that Palin is awful – a big government, social neo-conservative – Huckabee with lipstick. No thanks!

  49. Richard Winger Says:

    The only states in which Barr is on the ballot without the Libertarian label are Tennessee, South Dakota, and Alabama.

    It is possible (though unlikely) that Barr could end up on the ballots of 49 states. The only state in which we know for sure that he won’t, is West Virginia.

  50. Derek Says:

    Ron Paul has done alot for the message of liberty. I agree that he’s done what he wanted to do. But by no means is the Revolution itself over!

  51. Richard G. Says:

    Wake up people! Barr is the candidate! Mary would have never got the attention Barr has. While I would support Mary as well, the truth is, the mainstream would never have even listened to her. Just like they aren’t listening to Baldwin Barr has a chance! This game isn’t over! Yea, he might have made a mistake by not attending the Ron Paul conference, but then again he might have just increased his chances. At any rate, let’s get this Party rolling to a win this November. We need to get into overdrive, and stop sabotaging our prospects. Barr can win!! While there’s disagreement within the Party on strict and moderate libertarianism ideals, we all agree that the political environment must change. So pull your heads out of your hands, use them to pound on doors, and be proud to be a Libertarian GO BARR GO GO ROOT

  52. DebbieKat Says:

    On Ossetia/Russia/Georgia… So, it’s bad for Russia to go in to Georgian territory to help the Ossetians and they are chastised by the west. But, WE can go into Pakistan, uninvited and bomb whoever we want and that’s ok cause it’s the “war on terror”. Our leaders are despicable. I can’t wait till this election is over and I REALLY hope all the 3rd party candidates have a good showing. Our mainstream choices are awful.

  53. NewFederalist Says:

    Carl- Thanks for the article about the Clark/Koch campaign! Very enlightening. I guess the more things change the more they stay the same.

  54. MPM Says:

    FWIW, ethnic Ossetians actually don’t form the majority of the population in South Ossetia. What should happen is a full military withdrawal by both sides and a return of any refugees, then a plebiscite. In that case South Ossetia would likely vote to remain in Georgia and Abkhazia would vote for independence.

  55. Bill Wood Says:

    Kenny, I know Bob will not win the White House. McCain and Obama have the best chance of winning that. However, I do think Bob is winning in other ways.

  56. Cedric Harris Says:

    Bob Barr’s campaign isn’t exactly OVER. But for the most part Mr. Nolan is correct. You have to be blind not to see that Bob Barr is riding Dr. Paul’s coattails. From his web design by Terra Eclipse, to his campaign slogan “Liberty for America”.

    This guy is ate up with Ron Paul. And what he did yesterday was at best POLITICAL SUICIDE. He most certainly should have been at that presser. He wouldn’t have lost a single vote to the other people on that stage, he would have had nothing to gain but votes and money. Just being there would have been a defacto endorsement because he would have been the only one there running on Ron Paul’s platform.

    I can’t support Bob Barr anymore, and my friends, family, and I had donated considerable ammounts of money up until this week! Even though Ron Paul’s campaign is OVER, no one can deny that he’s done more to promote liberty in one year than Bob Barr has done in his whole life. And saying that Ron Paul is in it for the money, or is all about himself is the most blatant piece of psychological projection I’ve EVER seen! I really don’t blame people for thinking that Bob Barr has a secret agenda. If he’s in it to win it, he’s sure not acting like it. And what the hell is up with his campaign manager sucking up to GWB??? This isn’t the libertarian party I grew up with.

    I sincerely hope that Bob Barr gets a lot of votes, better he than McBama. I’m a lifelong libertarian, but I cannot in good conscience vote for the man. I was going to look past his previous flip-flops on global warming, the patriot act, the drug war, abortion, the war in Iraq, civil liberties, etc… but this is the last straw. I’ll be voting third party, but it won’t be for him! No, Bob Barr didn’t lose 1,000,000 on Wednesday, but he’s pretty damn close.

    Cedric C. Harris

  57. Amy Says:

    Please have these clowns removed from the LP ticket, sign this petition today so we have someone to vote for: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/RemoveBobBar/index.html

  58. Kenny Says:

    I congratulate Cedric Harris on a great post. Barr is Paul lite, an immitator without the 3 Is integrity, intellect and intelligence.

  59. Ralph Nader Cynthia McKinney Says:

    (Ron Paul & Ralph Nader)

    In the high school halls
    In the shopping malls
    Conform or be cast out.

    (McKinney Gravel Kucinich Ventura Perot)

    In the basement bars
    In the backs of cars
    Be cool or be cast out.

    [msm lip gloss]

  60. Cedric Harris Says:

    Thanks Kenny, you had some good ones too dude!

    Where did all the trolls come from???

  61. Kenny Says:

    The Barr campaign, Cedric! But they have left with their tails between their legs.

  62. Jonathan Says:

    you guys would have made drama queen in highschool, lol

  63. Babette Hogan Says:

    Regarding Barr’s absence, Barr’s campaign spokesman Andrew Davis said, “He (Barr) didn’t want to dilute his message by being on the same stage as people like Cynthia McKinney, who is completely opposite of what a Libertarian is.” (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/stories/2008/09/10/barr_paul_veep.html)

    Barr was absent for his own naive reasons. Being only recently departed from the Republican Party and holding a voting record that displays his socially conservative tendencies, he has only begun to grasp the unfair nature of ballot access laws and campaign financing. He is, however, beginning to feel the crunch.

    Libertarians may not agree with the Greens on a lot of social issues, but they do agree on the four principles presented by Paul, so to reject standing on the stage with McKinney was probably an act of Georgian Republican defiance against McKinney herself.

    To McKinney’s credit, in public she speaks respectfully of Barr, despite their significant differences on social policy.

  64. Impeach Bush Says:

    To the Nader McKinney guy, what the hell are you trying to prove? You keep writing these bizare comments on every thread. Post something useful.

  65. Dr.Gonzo Says:

    The members of our party is pretty much destroying it. No wonder we never get anywhere.

  66. Ferenc Says:

    To all Libertarians
    Don’t cry I said long time ego that B.Barr is a Republican in a different suit. If you want change, put independent and third party candidates in to the congress and senate.

    God Bless

  67. Kenny Says:

    “The members of our party is pretty much destroying it.” That should be “are” not “is”. The Barr-barians are an ill-educated lot!

  68. Joe Lawson Says:

    What an idiot David Nolan is. First of all fool, they could not put Barr at the top of the ticket because ballot access does not allow it, but it can be done for VPs.

    Second Barr never promised to go to the Ron Paul event, Ron Paul’s campaign staff and handlers are total idiots and are the same ones that lost Ron Paul the GOP nod. Barr told they campaign they were not coming and the staffer convienently forgot to tell Dr Paul. In addtion Ron Paul is not the say all end all for Liberty in America, we are. Ron Paul is a man and has made many many mistakes in his lifetime. He is not God and its great to see Barr not kissing ass to pander for votes.

    This is why 3rd parties are so messed up and will never go anywhere because of screw up like Nolan and the rest of the blog idiots.

  69. redfish Says:

    Kenny,

    I’m not sure what Verney’s pro-Bush comments were, but are you aware that Verney was once a Democrat and the executive director of the New Hampshire Democratic Party?

  70. Dr.Gonzo Says:

    Kenny,

    I am sorry for my internet grammar messageboard mistake. Usually attacking internet grammar is a last resort for someone who can’t attack the argument.

    Joe,

    You are completely right. We argument amongst ourselves more than focusing our attention on attacking the Republicrats. And people wonder why we never get anywhere.

  71. Kenny Says:

    Dr Gonzo, there are no smilies here. I was just teasing. Sadly, Barr is a Republicrat who spends too much time attacking libertarians. Ron Paul is just the latest example.

    Redfish, most of the leading neo-cons were Democrats, e.g. the Henry Jackson cabal such as Richard Perle. The neo-cons are not true conservatives and hijacked the GOP.

  72. Dr.Gonzo Says:

    Kenny,

    Paul is not a Libertarian. He is still a Republicrat last time I saw.

    Criticizing Paul is fine by me. I’m sick of Paul getting on television and claiming we need to make a change, but continuing to be a part of the problem. That says hypocrite to me. I’ll give him credit for starting it off, but he will not be the one to finish it.

  73. redfish Says:

    Kenny,

    That’s fair enough, except I don’t think Verney has any interest in supporting Bush. I don’t know what the pro-Bush comments are that you’re referring to, but I think some of the demonizations of Bush are overboard, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he just said something sensible.

  74. Kenny Says:

    Paul is not perfect but he is more libertarian than Barr. Check out their records on the Iraq war, drugs, and the Patriot Act. As I said earlier, we need a new face to lead the movement.

  75. Dr.Gonzo Says:

    Kenny,

    I don’t disagree that Barr’s past voting record is awful. That doesn’t mean somebody isn’t allowed to change their political stance.

    And Paul isn’t really a Libertarian. He is a Constitutionalist/Libertarian/Conservative mix.

  76. Kenny Says:

    I agree about Paul but his record on the key issues is longer and better than Barr’s. My main objection to Paul is his social conservatism and the content of his newsletters. Libertarians deserve better.

  77. Cedric Harris Says:

    “Paul is not a Libertarian. He is still a Republicrat last time I saw. Criticizing Paul is fine by me. I’m sick of Paul getting on television and claiming we need to make a change, but continuing to be a part of the problem.” Dr. Gonzo

    Mr. Gonzo, you obviously have no idea what a republicrat is. The word Republicrat is essentially synonymous with RINO. It refers to the fact that republicans have become no different from their democrat counterparts. Ron Paul by defintion is NOT a republicrat. Ron Paul has stood up for the traditional values of the republican party for the past 30 some years, and he hasn’t budged one inch. I understand that Bob Barr is jealous that his record doesn’t exactly compare. lol

    I really don’t understand a lot of the hostility that I’ve seen expressed towards the Good Doctor here recently. Many people were brought into the fold of the Libertarian party soely because of Ron Paul. Bob Barr would still be sitting in his Georgia office, dropping antique rifles, licking whipped cream and drinking Borat’s sister’s breast milk if it wasn’t for Ron Paul’s legendary primary run. And don’t try to marginalize that, Ron Paul IS this generation’s Barry Goldwater. You and I may have been staunch libertarians before Dr. Paul came on the national radar screen, but you can’t take away from him the heroic deeds he commited this last year. You say Ron Paul is part of the problem because he’s still a republican, and you’re tired of seeing him on TV begging for change… but lets just put this in perspective. Ron Paul has balls the size of grapefruit for getting into those republican debates and challenging ten of the most disgustings neo-cons ever to run for the office of president, not to mention the scum sucking bottom feeding commentators at faux news. Ya know, never mind, if you really can’t understand this, you ARE obviously a troll.

  78. Jamie Says:

    Between the Ron Paul snub, that stupid and racist piece Root wrote about Obama, and my lingering concerns about Barr’s decidedly un-libertarian past (drugs, DOMA, Wiccans, etc.), the camel’s back has broken.

    I remain a Libertarian Party member, and (more importantly) remain committed to the philosophy of libertarianism, but I WILL NOT support or vote for the Barr/Root ticket.

  79. Tom Bryant Says:

    Thanks for that David Nolan article on the Clark campaign. That provides great insight into the way he thinks.

    I am willing to wager that he thinks the Bergland campaign was a great success.

  80. Marshall Says:

    It’s the same, tired “are you libertarian enough” BS I’ve been seeing from some Libertarians for years.

    No one from the anti-Barr camp still hasn’t addressed the fact that LP membership is way up, media exposure is at an all-time high, polling is at an all-time high, and the Barr’s fundraising is on track to shatter any previous record. Yet we see petitions being circulated to try to remove Barr and Root from the ballot…absolutely pathetic, just like most of the people who post on these blogs.

  81. Dr.Gonzo Says:

    Marshall,

    I am relatively new to the party. Only been here for about a year, but I can tell why this party has been a failure for the past 30 years. They are the only American Party who not only embraces, but wants their candidates to be from the radical part of the party. We hate neo-cons and fringe leftists but some in this party want everyone to be a purist. Makes no sense to me.

    And Barr has brought more exposure to this party than any previous candidate. Only in the LP could you see a petition to remove the most successful candidate in the party’s history.

  82. Chris Says:

    Listen to Joe Lawson, he knows it all, even who you are going to vote for! (hint: it isn’t Barr)

  83. Chris Says:

    Some people just don’t get it….

    “No one from the anti-Barr camp still hasn’t addressed the fact that LP membership is way up, media exposure is at an all-time high, polling is at an all-time high, and the Barr’s fundraising is on track to shatter any previous record. Yet we see petitions being circulated to try to remove Barr and Root from the ballot…absolutely pathetic, just like most of the people who post on these blogs. ”

    And you think this is because of Barr and/or his campaign? What a joke. Of course the Establishment will tolerate Barr, he is a non-threatening Libertarian Come Lately.

  84. Tom Bryant Says:

    In my state, the membership growth is clearly due to Bob Barr. No question about it.

    Your state may differ…but it’s probably best to speak from a position of knowledge than ignorance. If you’re not heading up your state’s volunteer coordination or membership coordination, you aren’t going to see the information that you need to make that determination.

  85. Kenny Says:

    Dr Gonzo, Barr may be getting exposure but it is for the wrong reasons – anti-libertarian policies such as his Minutemen immigration policy and his interventionist, neo-con foreign policy.

    If Barr is attracting new members, are they genuine libertarians or conservatives like himself and his team?

    If Barr thinks like a Republican, talks like a Republican and acts like a Republican, then he is a Republican, irrespective of which party he is standing for.

    Barr has repeatedly described himself as a conservative during his campaign. He has dropped any use of the word libertarian from his campaign website and merchandise.

    Let’s get real. Barr is running as an independent conservative using the LP’s ballot access.

  86. Kenny Says:

    Chris wrote “Of course the Establishment will tolerate Barr, he is a non-threatening Libertarian Come Lately.”

    Very true. Barr is down to 1% in the latest AP-Ipsos poll. That’s Harry Browne territory. Is Ross Verney the new Perry Willis?

  87. Clark Says:

    ...when the most famous ‘Libertarian’ in a large part of the country is an OBVIOUS fucking republican MOron like radio loudmouth kneel boor..ONE NEEDN’T WONDER WHY THE LP HAS ATTRACTED THE LIKES OF DR GONZO AND THE REST OF THESE REPUBLICRAT BOOB BARF CHEERLEADERS!..

    “When a food product manufacturer puts out a run of bad food, they don’t urge people to SELL SELL SELL. They recall the product, to save face, save the brand, and demonstrate principles. They recall the product, because they care about their customers.” (BVJ)

    ..love it!.....of course you are correct here, bvj..these barf cheerleaders must be used to eating shit!.. ;o)

  88. Jeff Albertson Says:

    Verney was Demo official? and a pal of Rove? It’s starting to make sense.
    Sabateur par excellence; if I wore a hat, it would be off to him, and I’m not smoking anything, either. Ya’ll should just ignore this gonzo schmuck.

  89. Flash Says:

    You Libertarians are dangerously close to losing the principles that your party was founded on. You’re already sacrificing your values for votes, thats how the Democrats/Republicans got where they are.

  90. Dr.Gonzo Says:

    Kenny,

    There isn’t one line of thinking within the party. There are many different Libertarians. As long as everyone supports the basic principle of complete liberty it doesn’t matter where they stand on other issues.

    Barr is no longer a Republican and doesn’t even come close to representing the views of hte Republican Party.

    And Libertarian appears numerous times on his website as well as his bio on the website.

  91. Liberated Woman Says:

    Getting back to the original subject – DFN repudiating our ticket:

    We have an anarchist who is a sore loser! Like many of the anarchists, he seems very angry inside and lashes out at others who are not carbon copies of himself.

    Ironically, he can be partially credited with the current ticket. His favorite candidate, Ruwart, managed to divert potential votes from Root and Kubby. This created an opening for Barr. Now Nolan’s crying in his milk.

    The critique of the Clark/Crane ticket is priceless. That was the ticket I came in on and I’m still here 28 years later!

  92. Dr.Gonzo Says:

    Flash,

    No we aren’t sacrificing anything. Simply a talking point put out by the purists who are unhappy that we didn’t elect a supporter of kiddie porn.

    Its called compromise. To succeed in politics you need to compromise. Some on here don’t understand that.

  93. Liberated Woman Says:

    The topic of Palin …

    After doing some searching, I do think that the Barr ticket will take a hit due to her candidacy.

    In a speech, she refered to the Free State Project and the Christian Exodus. This woman is aware of the freedom movement and has referred to it in public. She will probably pull a lot of the older Paul supporters from Barr.

  94. Tom Bryant Says:

    “If Barr thinks like a Republican, talks like a Republican and acts like a Republican, then he is a Republican, irrespective of which party he is standing for.”

    If the Republicans thought, talked, and acted like Barr these last several years, we would not have a $3.1 trillion dollar budget, spiraling deficit, etc.

    I would be much happier if the Republicans went about slowly shrinking government everytime they were in power. We wouldn’t need a Libertarian Party then, and Barr would be content to still be a Republican, and Paul would be looked upon as a standard bearer of the GOP instead of the red-headed step-child.

  95. John Karr Says:

    Bob Barr was never a perfect candidate, but for all his flaws, he has worked to build the party (something Ron Paul didn’t do in 1988) with his campaign.

    Outside of the Third Party and Liberty Movement, his campaign is already the Libertarian Party’s most successful. If the Republican Party were not concerned about Barr’s 3% costing them some Electors, McCain would not have nominated a Freshman Governer as his VP Candidate. I believe that once Obama nominated Biden, McCain decided that he must nominate a woman, but without the threat of Bob Barr, i sincerely doubt that there would have been any consideration whatsoever of Sarah Palin.

    The rift between Ron Paul and Bob Barr is unfortunate. I believe that Bob and Russ have made some errors in dealing with it, it is embarrassing and disappointing.

  96. Bill Woolsey Says:

    Barr says that he is a libertarian frequently.

    He is calling for a rapid withdrawal from Iraq and has criticized
    Bush and McCain’s militarism.

    He has lambasted Bush’s out of control spending.

    And has defending the Constitution against the Cheney/Woo
    theory of absolute Presidential power.

    To claim that Barr is running as a Republican is blindness.

  97. Kenny Says:

    John Karr makes several cogent points. I admit to being a Barr sceptic when he was nominated. I gave him the chance to prove me wrong but he screwed up big time.

    Ron Paul could have run as an independent with LP and CP support. Sadly, Ron lacked the balls to do so. Paul chose his Congressional pension over leading the libertarian movement. Huge mistake!

    That left Barr the opportunity to pick up the votes of the Paulistas. All he had to do was to appear with other 3rd Party candidates and declare himself to be the only candidate who Paul supporters could vote for. Barr screwed up on that simple task and has destroyed the LP brand.

    All that remains is damage limitation. What a disaster after Paul, and to a lesser extent Barr, were winning the moral and practical arguments!!

    What we need is a committed libertarian to lead the movement away from conservatism lite towards a real revolution. The GOP conservatives can go back to whoring for their own war party.

  98. Ferenc Says:

    The only way any third party grow in the future is, to put third party candidates in the congress and senate.To dreaming about a major third party with out representation is just a pure stupedity. This two party is in control of everithing. TV, radio, Hollywood, schools, colliges. Most of today jung people are brainwashed against our country. We have tens of millions, most of them lazy to work, on welfare,and they vote democrats no matter what! We need third party congressman and senator, and people going to fallow them. So, don’t dream about third party presidency, becouse not going to happen

    God Bless

  99. Dr.Gonzo Says:

    Ferenc,

    I believe third parties need to start even lower than the Congressional level. Third parties need to start at the local and state levels and build from there.

    A third party Presidency is not realistic now, but a lot has changed with the younger generation. Give it time, and you’ll see one. The internet has allowed third parties a media outlet that they’ve never had before.

  100. Stefan Says:

    Kenny, I believe Paul’s decision not to run as a third party/indy is the right one. It is all about ral change. Sure, if he had run, he would probably have beaten Ross Perot’s record, but would still have been third and thus after November/December not on congress anymore and thus not able to be the leader of the conservative-libertarian movement and not be able to attack Ben Bernanke. Also, he has some allies in congress and would have deserted them if he had left. The revolution continues and there are also a few candidates for congress and on more local level that can be elected in November and this will already set the stage of some massive gains in 2010.
    If he would have run as an Indy representing the LP and CP, which party would he have lead of the two? He is a member of both, but does not agree with all positions of both parties either. Some third parties need to move in the direction of a merger after November, in order to be set up for 2010, perhaps under the name Independence Party, that was quite successful in Minnesota, achieving double digit showings.

  101. Tom Bryant Says:

    “That left Barr the opportunity to pick up the votes of the Paulistas. All he had to do was to appear with other 3rd Party candidates and declare himself to be the only candidate who Paul supporters could vote for. Barr screwed up on that simple task and has destroyed the LP brand.”

    Ummm…there were THREE other candidates there, declaring that they were the candidate for Ron Paul supporters to vote for. Barr was never given the opportunity by Ron Paul to declare himself, and ONLY himself, as the candidate for Paul’s supporters.

    What Paul did was deliver a huge slap in the face to Barr and Baldwin by putting them on the same “libertarian/small government level” as McKinney and Nader. That is pretty insulting! Baldwin did it because he is desperate for any coverage. Nader/McKinney did it because Ron Paul represents a way to tap into a market that could never otherwise get into.

    Paul put Barr in a lose/lose situation. If he shows up, he pretty much admits that he only deserves 1/4 of the Paul supporters. If he doesn’t show up, he will alienate a lot of the Paul supporters. Was it more or less than 1/4 – who knows. But it was a pretty crappy spot Paul put him in.

    If Baldwin gets more votes than Barr, it would be clearly because of this move. If Barr gets more votes than Baldwin, and more than 500,000 votes, then he did the right thing.

    We all have our opinions, but they took one road and time will tell.

  102. Kenny Says:

    “Paul put Barr in a lose/lose situation. If he shows up, he pretty much admits that he only deserves 1/4 of the Paul supporters. If he doesn’t show up, he will alienate a lot of the Paul supporters.”

    I disagree but, even so, I would rather have 1/4 of Paul supporters than the tiny fraction that Barr has now. The reality is that Nader and McKinney will only appeal to a small fraction, less than 10%, of Paul supporters. Barr and Baldwin would have picked up most of the rest. If you read the pro-Paul message boards, most Paul supporters will now back Baldwin after Barr’s snub and pathetic VP offer. As you say, only time will tell.

    Barr should out-poll Baldwin because of better ballot access and name recognition. Barr should be able to out-poll Baldwin by at least 3 or 4 to 1. Anything closer will be a humiliation for Barr. The recent polls suggest that Barr will struggle to beat Browne or even Badnarik. That would be a high price to pay for allowing a conservative to run on the LP ticket.

  103. Kenny Says:

    I would say to Bill Woolsey that Barr started running as a paleo-conservative, e.g. his Buchananite stance on immigration. Buchanan has also criticised Bush’s spending and attacked Cheney for dissing the constitution. Pat, however, has been wooed back to the GOP cause by Sarah Palin’s VP nomination.

    Barr has flip-flopped on many issues including the Iraq War, intervention in Latin America and the drug war. Perhaps you can tell me Barr’s stance on legalising pot. Simply saying that it is not a federal responsibility is a cop-out. Barr’s track record is one of a zealous prosecutor of the drug war. His latest flip-flop on the drug war is far from convincing. Actions speak louder than words.

  104. Clark Says:

    SOME REPUBLICACA FROM MARSHALL: “No one from the anti-Barr camp still hasn’t (sic) addressed the fact that LP membership is way up, media exposure is at an all-time high, polling is at an all-time high, and the Barr’s fundraising is on track to shatter any previous record. Yet we see petitions being circulated to try to remove Barr and Root from the ballot…absolutely pathetic, just like most of the people who post on these blogs.

    ...wake the fuck up, marshall!..if nominating republicrats to increase lp membership, media exposure, polling, fundraising, etc.. is your fucking gig…YOU WOULD HAVE DONE A LOT BETTER NOMINATING OPRAH, HILLARY CLINTON, WILLARD MILTON ROMNEY, ETCETERCRATS FUCKING GALORE, YOU APPARENT REPUBLICREEP!

    (this republicrat dope reminds me of the few stoooooopid republicrat fucks running the lp in my state..these stoooooooopid fucks lined up republican shit-head after republican shit-head to speak at the state convention and then wonder why honest libertarians hate their fucking guts and failed to show up and listen to republican shit-heads spew shit all day!) ;o)

  105. Cedric Harris Says:

    LP membership is up for one AND ONLY ONE reason. I’ve got two words.

    Ron Paul

    To assume that the surge in LP donors and members can be attributed to Bob Barr is assinine. Bob Barr saw the massive support that Dr. Paul got in the primaries and he started drooling. The only reason that Bob Barr ORIGINALLY begged Paul to run for prez on the LP ticket, was because he wanted to be his VP. Bob Barr saw that freedom is popular and he wanted in. And BTW, Dr. No, said he wasn’t going to endorse anyone waaaaay back… don’t believe me? Here’s the video…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5YaqKf-yTg

    We RP supporters often say, “it’s not the man, its the message”. But to a certain extent it IS the man, I can’t vote for someone that lacks any trace of integrity. Am I the only one disturbed by Bob Barr’s copycat web design, the way he SELF PROMOTES “barr bombs”, “liberty for america”, and the way he refers to himself in the third person constantly??? It didn’t work for Bob Dole in 96 and it ain’t gonna work for you dude.

  106. Marshall Says:

    Once again, Clark’s venom, profanity, and lack of class makes responding to him useless.

    To Chris: I know LP membership has been up in 2007 and the first part of 2008, but now since the Convention, those growth rates are much higher. That is at least partly a result of Bob Barr. And like Tom Bryant said, state LPs (which I have been active w/ much longer that national, and which I think are much more important) are seeing huge growth rates also. I know my state LP’s membership is way up. And finally, the county parties and local affiliates are also getting much more interest and activity which really helps our cause at the all-to-important grassroots.

    I know many of you don’t care about this, it’s more the “who’s more Libertarian” or now—the “Are you Libertarian enough” game. I get it. It’s the same social club dynamic that has been in LP since the beginning. I’ve finally come to accept this and move on.

    I think what we can all agree on is helping this record class of amazing Libertarians all over the country running for U.S. Congress, state congress, various state-wide races, county, municipal, etc. Hate Barr but donate and volunteer for Munger in NC. Do the same w/ Allen Buckley in GA. Or Boman in Michigan. Go to LP.org and find a state, county, or local candidate near you and really get involved. The next time you want to spend a bunch of time insulting us “barfers” on these blogs, go out and help one of these fine men or women make a difference for Liberty.

    I now know that trying to have this debate is pointless, so why waste the time or energy? Let’s fight the good fight against the real enemy.

    And to Clark: I am truly sorry that there seems to be such anger and negativity in your life.

    Best of luck to everyone.

    Long Live Liberty!
    And long live the Libertarian Party!

  107. disinter Says:

    Do I support the Libertarian Party even though I do not support the candidate? That goes against my principles. Do I choose any other third party to send a message? Again, that goes against my principles. I choose not to vote against people but to vote for them. Therefore, I am left with the decision to write in the name Ron Paul. I think he would make a great President. I know my vote will not count as a vote for Dr. Paul, but it will be counted in the generic category of “write-ins.” When they show the total of people in my state who do not like the choices they were given I will be among them. And that is the message I truly want to send with my vote. I do not accept your chosen few. I am an American and as so I believe I have the right to vote for whom I choose.

    Perhaps if enough people also wrote-in their vote, these draconian write-in laws will be removed.

    I thought about not voting at all because I do not want to legitimize the system, but those non-votes are simply seen as apathy. I am not apathetic. I am passionate: Extremely passionate for liberty.

    So this election, I will be making a statement. I will vote for the man I believe to be the best candidate, I will do my best to expose a corrupt system that prevents most of us from making a real choice, and I will sleep well. If you feel the same way, I ask you to join me. Even writing in “none of the above” sends a message. I ask you to think about the message you wish to send with your vote. If you want change then change.

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/hamilton4.html

  108. Clark Says:

    MARSHALL BUFFALOES: And to Clark: I am truly sorry that there seems to be such anger and negativity in your life. (END)

    ...yes, marshall…when it comes to “politics”/’the money thing,’ i am somewhat angry at the phony, crooked fucks responsible..

    ...people like your guy, boob barf, who,—whether or not you can see/admit it—are responsible for/have supported ‘it!’...AND STILL DO

    ...and phony ‘Libertarian’ people like (apparently) you-who, instead of capitalizing on this palpable and growing anger/resentment, foist upon us one of the stoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooopid and/or crooked republicrat fucks DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR “IT”..

    And to Marshall: I am truly sorry that there seems to be such naivete and Republicrat stoooooooooooooopidity in your life.

  109. kombayn Says:

    Bob Barr cost himself any chance of getting over a million votes. I’m voting Nader/Gonzalez in California and already a lot of RP supporters are moving towards Baldwin and Nader. It’s a shame, Bob Barr couldn’t even reach his goal of 48 states and D.C. he only has 44 states and no D.C.

    His media coverage is non-existent now. The LP should have nominated Ruwart/Kubby and they would’ve done a lot better in money support with the radicals & RP supporters.

  110. DJ Says:

    Dr Gonzo says,

    “Wow, some people almost make me not favor legalizing all drugs. You are smoking something good to come up with that.”

    “Calling everyone you disagree with a statist is usually the first sign that you have no real argument.”

    Talk about a POT calling the kettle black. Please, continue to alienate potential allies with your exclusive one-third-party-to-rule-them-all mentality. Although, Barr doesn’t need your help doing that. He’s doing a great job all on his own.

    “However, the sad fact of reality is that if you want to succeed in politics you are probably going to compromise some of your principles.”

    Reality in Bizzaro World, perhaps. It’s amazing people still condone compromising their values and principle over popularity. I hope most Libertarians don’t agree with your statement when considering presidential candidates, or even life in general. They’ve certainly lost my vote for that very reason…

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