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November 9 Trial Date for Harlos

The date for the LNC Procedure on Secretary Caryn Ann Harlos has been set for Novermber 9.  The announcement from the National Chair reads:

Registration with your actual name is required.

You are invited to a Zoom meeting.
When: Nov 9, 2024 05:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)
Register in advance for this meeting:

25 Comments

  1. NewFederalist NewFederalist November 1, 2024

    Is the death penalty off the table in the penalty phase?

      • Damian Damian November 3, 2024

        Unfortunately Stewart with this group it is funny because it has a metaphorical truth to it. Meesus is trying politically kill Harlos with their “coup master” parliamentarian but they fail to realize that She is Legend due to things like this.

        • Stewart Flood Stewart Flood November 4, 2024

          I actually considered bringing up the political death penalty. But I thought it best just to say let’s not jump the shark.

          I haven’t read the by laws in years, so I just checked. There are no procedures defined other than that the national committee may suspend by 2/3 vote, with the person subject to the suspension vote, not voting.

          There are requirements that the judicial committee, during an appeal, allow evidence and presentation. But there is nothing other than a vote defined for the national committee.

          If they have decided to add any procedures prior to the vote, there is nothing in the bylaws holding them to that procedure.

          But since the bylaws do not prohibit allowing representation or presentation of evidence prior to the vote to suspend, it certainly isn’t disallowed. The bylaws have no specification regarding time for the presentation, so the chair can do whatever she wants.

          And it doesn’t really matter what the policy manual says, because all they have to do is vote to change it. The policy manual is meaningless.

          The only slight issue I would have with what has been reported is that this is not an issue that qualifies as executive session. It is not dealing with personnel or an outside legal issue. It is a vote that is defined as legitimate to hold under the bylaws. So holding the trial in executive session would be Improper. A trial should be public.

          That said, I have no intention of attempting to watch the proceedings. Members of the party and anyone there to report on it as “press“ would certainly be justified in watching, but I am not a member of the party and there are far better people to report on this than me.

          • George Phillies George Phillies Post author | November 4, 2024

            Assuming that the internet is working, I will cover the trial for ThirdPartyWatch. A secret trial, besides being UnAmerican except under the most extreme circumstances, is forbidden by the Bylaws.

          • J. M. Jacobs J. M. Jacobs November 5, 2024

            They could adopt a rule to remove an officer without a trial. This was actually mentioned in a filing for the defense in CAH’s 2021 removal.

            The LNC has chosen not to adopt such a rule (and I would not recommend that they do). In fact, the LNC expanded the rights of the accused in regard to who can be defense counsel.

            I will also note that the chair does not limit the time; the LNC does.

            Officers and directors are considered personnel.

          • Anonymous Observer Anonymous Observer November 5, 2024

            “Officers and directors are considered personnel.”

            No, that is not the case according to some parts of the law.

            Hired persons? Yes. Elected persons? No.

            But while the IRS considers an officer to be an employee for tax purposes, that doesn’t apply here since the Officers are not (supposed to be) paid.

            ICE also considers an officer to be an employee for immigration purposes, but that’s not applicable here either, unless you think Harlos is an undocumented immigrant.

            But Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, 400 USC 2000e(f), as well as the Age Discrimination in Employment Act, 29 USC 630(f) both indicate that a person elected to a public office of a state or political subdivision is not an employee.

            If they were considered “personnel” or “employees,” then there would be no need for the bylaws and they could be unilaterally fired “at-will” just like the executive director or any staff.

            DC Code § 29–406.40 et seq. also applies as well, and it indicates that officers are elected, not hired.

          • J. M. Jacobs J. M. Jacobs November 5, 2024

            Anon, it is subject to interpretation as to if that bylaw includes officers as personnel. That is where the limitation is. The group that, initially, gets to interpret that bylaw is the LNC. Their decision is subject to appeal to the JC and that decision is ultimately up to the convention. However, if the result of the trial goes to the JC, that would be released (with possible redactions) by the JC.
            You have cited several cases where the term WOULD include an officer or director.

  2. Stewart Flood Stewart Flood October 31, 2024

    So will this be pay to view?

    The accused should understand that asking for due process is an unreasonable request. When you already know the outcome, what purpose does the trial serve?

    And who’s trial will be next?

    • Caryn Ann Harlos Caryn Ann Harlos November 1, 2024

      I’m already planning my appeal while Adrian who doesn’t even know what a majority is, is angling for my job as he will be voted out as CA chair in Feb. I don’t think I laughed that hard when I say how he tried to be cute and just showed he is unqualified.

    • J. M. Jacobs J. M. Jacobs November 1, 2024

      I’m glad you know the outcome, because I don’t.

      The testimony should be in executive session, but the votes on guilt or a possible penalty if guilt is found, will take place in public.

      I will note that, if there is a finding of guilt, a penalty imposed, and an appeal to the JC, the records of the trial would become public. I am well aware of that and I may be a witness.

      • Stewart Flood Stewart Flood November 1, 2024

        No, just guessing the result based on the recent actions of the LNC. I spent six years on the committee, so I know that “anything can happen”, but I do not believe a not guilty outcome is likely.

        • Caryn Ann Harlos Caryn Ann Harlos November 1, 2024

          My comment was to JJ not you Stewart.

          • Stewart Flood Stewart Flood November 2, 2024

            And I was responding to him not to you 🙂

            We both mentioned, in different words, the likelihood that the outcome of this “trial“ is predetermined.

    • Thomas L. Knapp Thomas L. Knapp November 2, 2024

      The due process owed under the bylaws is:

      1) A debatable motion to suspend, and a vote of the LNC for or against.

      2) An allowed appeal to the Judicial Committee (which writes its own rules of appellate procedure) if the vote is to suspend.

      Nothing more, nothing less, nothing else.

      • Caryn Ann Harlos Caryn Ann Harlos November 3, 2024

        This was determined differently by convention and now there are Policy Manual provisions.

        Doesn’t matter because Angela has orchestrated a charade. Perhaps some other persons will awaken. I did.

        • Thomas L. Knapp Thomas L. Knapp November 4, 2024

          If the convention had wanted to change the bylaws, it could have.

          It didn’t. It just violated them in a 1984-style memory-holing procedure that created no binding precedent.

          The bylaws exhaustively specify the due process required. Neither the Policy Manual nor RONR can modify that requirement.

          • J. M. Jacobs J. M. Jacobs November 5, 2024

            The bylaws do NOT express the process for removing someone; that is expressed in the parliamentary authority (PA). The PA permits rules which do not conflict with the bylaws to be adopted, The LNC just that

      • J. M. Jacobs J. M. Jacobs November 3, 2024

        Thomas, CAH get know specifically what the charges are, be given time to prepare a defense, have an LP member or a lawyer defend her, introduce evidence, call witnesses, and cross examine those witnesses called by the manager for the society.

        If she is found guilty on any of the charges, the LNC would then consider the penalty, which includes her removal, but may be a lesser penalty as well.

        If she is found guilty and a penalty adopted, she may file an appeal with the JC, without needing to get the signatures of X number of people.

        This process is neither quick nor easy, but it exists to give any officer, or member at large, including CAH, the protection of due process.

        • Damian Damian November 3, 2024

          It is curious how the “expert” who cannot seem to stay away from LP drama and seem peculiarly fixated on Harlos does not know the Bylaws. If there is any penalty, the only penalty for which signatures is not needed is removal. I will state once again that as a Party member I am finding it highly unethical that he keeps inserting himself into debate and am considering filing a complaint with his certifying organization. Mr. Brown never behaved this way.

  3. J. M. Jacobs J. M. Jacobs October 31, 2024

    Ah, the trial date was set on 10/6. I have mentioned, several times, that it will be held on 11/9.

  4. Caryn Ann Harlos Caryn Ann Harlos October 31, 2024

    9 days away and still no decree from the queen on how long for anything. Much fair. Very due. Many process.

    • Bob Bob November 1, 2024

      You called for McArdle to be locked up. How libertarian of you.

      • Caryn Ann Harlos Caryn Ann Harlos November 1, 2024

        She lied. Quote me. I never said that.

    • J. M. Jacobs J. M. Jacobs November 1, 2024

      That will be up to the LNC. They can do that at the meeting.

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