Back to Kennedy:
A group of Libertarians formed months prior to the national convention to encourage Kennedy to run for the nomination. On May 3, 2024, Libertarians For Kennedy announced a group of state party chairs soliciting Kennedy to run for the nomination.
They even nominated Kennedy at the Libertarian National Convention where Kennedy lost on the first round of voting.
That didn’t slow down the Libertarians for Kennedy who remained so fervent in their support that they even attempted to overthrow the nomination by issuing legal threats.
As a result of your failure to respond, you now have 7 days from receipt of this notice to take the following corrective action:
1) Declare a vacancy in each of the positions whose elections were influenced by mismanagement and fraud, namely the presidential nomination, vice-presidential nomination, vice-chair, and secretary; or Appoint the presidential and vice-presidential nominees by a three-fourths vote of the entire LNC and likewise for the vice-chair and secretary by a majority vote of the LNC.
2) Pass a resolution to prevent future mismanagement and fraud placing a motion before the next convention to consider a bylaws amendment removing the ability to add new delegates after the start of the convention or a prohibition to any new delegates thirty days before the start of the convention which cannot be changed except by seven-eighths vote.
The LNC must give assurances that this matter is resolved permanently and will not affect the next convention. Failure to provide such assurances we are prepared to ask for a court order with the above terms. Failure to take such corrective action will necessitate legal action to protect the integrity of the Libertarian Party, particularly seeking a temporary restraining order to prevent the LNC from continuing to act negligently and in violation of its fiduciary duty. In addition, a judgment will be sought against the LNC for its failure to act requiring each member of the LNC to pay for the legal fees to bring this matter to court.
Threats of lawsuits didn’t work but the group also attempted to get individual state parties to violate the will of the Libertarian Party delegates and place Kennedy on the Libertarian ballot.
RFK Jr. sought the nomination of the Unity Party in Colorado in April of 2024, but the Unity Party of Colorado decided to go with Cornel West instead.
The RFK Jr. campaign then launched the independen presidential candidate petition in Colorado around May 7th. This petition required 12,000 valid signatures with a distribution requirement spread evenly across each of Colorado’s US House districts. They used both paid petition circulators and volunteer petition circulators. They paid in the ballpark of $15-$20 per signature in every state (this price included override money to meecenary petition coordinators), plus they had paid validity checkers who got paid for checking the validity of every signature (from paid circulators and from volunteers) before they submitted signatures to election departments. How much did they pay to the validity checkers? Probably around $1 per signature.
The RFK Jr. campaign gathered over 29,000 petition signatures in Colorado.
These events happened BEFORE some Libertarian Party of Colorado members offered to give the RFK Jr. campaign their ballot access for President.
Just to clarify, the Natural Law Party put RFK Jr. on the ballot in Michigan, which required zero petition signatures, AFTER American Values Super PAC paid several hundred thousand dollars in Michigan on a petition drive. Those signatures NEVER got submitted to the state because the Federal Election Commission threatened them with fines and with disqualifying the signatures because it is not legal for Super PAC funds to pay for ballot access.
Caryn Ann, in 2024 the FEC went after American Values Super PAC immeduately for paying for ballot access for RFK Jr. Those states were Arizona, Michigan, South Carolina and Georgia. The super PAC also started a ballot access drive in Maryland but they shut it down after a few days or a week. None of the petition signatures the super PAC paid for ever got turn in even though the super PAC spent a few million on this. Why? Because it is not legal for super PAC funds to pay for ballot access. The signatures would have all been disqualified and the super PAC would have been fined by the FEC if they had submitted those petition signatures to election departments. The FEC sent them threatening letters IMMEDIATELY. This made the news. The RFK Jr. camppaign had to redo the ballot access drives in Arizona and in Georgia and in South Carolina the already ballot qualified Alliance Party put them on the ballot and the already ballot qualified Natural Law Party put them on the ballot, both of which took zero petition signatures.
So you are telling us that the FEC went after American Values Super PAC IMMEDIATELY for violating campaign finance law by using super PAC funds to pay for ballot access for RFK Jr., yet they let it slide when RFK Jr. entered into a jount fundraising committee with the Libertarian Party, even though if it was illegal the FEC, under the Biden administration, had MONTHS to go after them for it (probably a good 6 months)?
This makes ZERO sense.
Democrats also CHALLENGED RFK Jr.’s petitions in several states.
Why would Democrats go to the trouble of challenging RFK Jr.’s petition signatures in several states with the intent of blocking his ballot access, yet they would just look the other way and not do anything if it was illegal for RFK Jr. to enter into a joint fundraising committee with the Libertarian Party? The JFC with the LP was not a secret, it made national news. Democrats knew about it and they had at least 6 months to go after the LP and the RFK Jr. campaign if it was illegal BEFORE Trump got into office, yet they did NOTHING.
Once again, this makes ZERO sense.
As far AI searches of the law, I would take this over the word of a lot of attorneys. I have heard attorneys make mutiple uninformed statements over the years. Such as a certain attorney for the Libertarian Party who was from Massachusetts (I think this person has since moved out of that state) did not even know that Massachusetts has open access for petition circulators, meaning that petition circulators can go anywhere that is open to public foot traffic, including shopping centers, malls and storefronts, and the police are not supposed to kick them out so long as the circulator is not blocking a door. So this attorney did not even know this about the petition process in the state where they resided. This same attorney also thought it was illegal for petition circulators to gather petition signatures in front of public libraries and motor vehicle/drivers licensing offices and that petition circulators should only go to public sidewalks and parks (even though most of them are sparse with people most of the time) to avoid legal trouble (if we did what he suggested every LP ballot access drive would likely fail), even though there are multiple court rulings and statutes that say this is a legal activity anywhere in the country.
So I do not automatically take the opinion of some attorney as being accurate.
Wall of text. Good day. This paint so t gonna watch itself dry.
Obvious fallacy that something is legal because one’s enemies complained about a second, unrelated act but not the one in question.
Several complaints about American Values 2024 paying for Kennedy’s ballot access came from Elias Law Group. Several months later, a partner at Elias was allegedly behind an entity ads supporting Kennedy in Michigan after the latter joined Trump, but remained on the MI ballot. The same entity also purchased ads on behalf of Chase in MI.
That’s an example of why the same entity would object to one action (Kennedy ballot access) and perhaps not another (Kennedy Libertarian JFC) a few months later. Indeed, the Democrats that “CHALLENGED RFK Jr.’s petitions in several states” (!!!!) and the Democrats that challenged RFK Jr.s’ attempt to remove himself from the ballot in several states were allegedly one and the same.
Makes a little more than Z E R O sense.
Plus the FEC has no quorum. Complaints are not published by FEC though any of the parties can. FEC staff may have recommended investigation on various things on their own and none of us would know. We may never know. Andy’s stubborn misplaced confidence on such things is an eye opener to not trust his pronouncements on other things. And the hilarity of claiming an AI knows better than the cited attorney is… special. This wasn’t some rando traffic ticket lawyer but from a white shoe campaign/election finance firm.
The LNC can appoint a presidential ticket or an internet convention could have been called to nominate a presidential ticket.
The other option was to let each affiliate nominate its own presidential ticket.
I am not saying any of these things should have been done, I am just pointing out that they were options.
You literally have no idea what you are talking about.
Tell me how I do not know what I am talking about. What fact specifically did I get wrong?
Convention delegates can vote to have the LNC appoint a presidential ticket. The LNC can also fill vacancies on a presidentisl ticket.
Convention delegates could have voted to extend presidential candidate or ticket voting to an internet convention if Chase had lost to NOTA .
If NOTA had won at the National Convention LP affiliates could have nominated their own presidential tickets, and there is nothing to stop any Libertarian Party member who is legally eligible to run from getting their own ballot access. There are some states where state affiliates have no control over who uses the Libertarian Party label on the ballot, and in New Hampshire multiple candidates can petition their way onto the ballot for the same office with the same party label if said party is not officially a recognized political party by the state (the LP of NH has not been an officially recognized political party in several years). Some states the candidate would have to get ballot access as an independent/non-partisan, but if they are a Libertarian Party member nothing could stop them from referring to themselves as a Libertarian candidate for President.
Back in 2022 the LP of Pennsylcania Concention delegates ended up voting to let the LP of PA State Board to nominate a gubernatorial ticket after one candidate for the nomination for Governor was forced to withdraw after it came out that he was not legally eligible to run (he likely would have lost to NOTA even if he had been) and the other candidate for the nomination lost to NOTA.
Chase win. Your counter factual are irrelevant.
Let me correct the record, Dr. Phillies. This entry seems to be copied from people who are intentionally obfuscating the facts.
As I have explained repeatedly, there was an offer to the LNC and Oliver campaign to do a VOLUNTARY deal where sufficient states were allowed to openly place Kennedy on their ballot so the Kennedy campaign could qualify for the upcoming CNN debate with Trump and Biden. That was the context of the text message. There’s was ZERO intention as to encouraging anyone from violating party bylaws. I can forward you the complete emails to the LNC as proof. It is also preserved on the Libertarians for Kennedy website.
As for the Anderson invoice, the Libertarian Party of Florida had previously engaged this law firm in separate election law challenges (amicus brief in Polelle v. Florida Secretary of State et al). He confused clients and accidentally sent that invoice to LP Florida. Libertarians for Kennedy was not involved with Anderson or his law firm.
Let’s put this all into context. Angela McArdle and the LNC had evidence that the convention violated bylaws to the extent that the entire convention results could’ve been voided. Instead of taking action, McArdle protected the Oliver campaign vs not having a presidential ticket. Let me repeat: McArdle saved the Oliver campaign.
lol.
McArdle is a crook who got caught red handed embezzling donor money (~$50,000) and lying about it.
She then resigned as LNC chair in disgrace.
See SIC report that was upheld by the JC after false accusations of “misrepresentation” by people lacking principles.
There were no “misrepresentations”.
McArdle is a failed LNC chair in which both revenue and membership nosedived under her leadership. As LNC chair, she refused to support Chase Oliver except in blue states all so Trump could win. She literally said that.
Now is the time for the LNC to go after her to return the money she embezzled.
She is a pathetic loser.
I do not agree with what Angela did, but technically it was not embezzlement. It was a party rules violating nepotism hire which is a civil matter, not a criminal matter. I do think that the LNC would probably win if they sued her, but she may be unable to pay and declare bankrupcy.
Ok. Fine.
LNC wins the civil case and holds a judgment against her.
Principles.
Sigh. More nonsense. It was embezzlement. Textbook example. And embezzlement can be a civil offense. You keep talking on this and get so few things to get. I wouldn’t respond normally as I’ll have to avoid this site for a month to avoid being ambushed by a wall of text but people may mistakenly think you know what you are talking about, and you don’t.
Part one. The more Roos foolishly talks, the more fodder I have: https://www.youtube.com/live/YriFevVHjkg?si=fmVQBAUQmwdfGW3p
(Response to his nonsense is at end but relevant).
I’m not even involved to any significant extent any longer but I’ll never rest until those who did this are held accountable.
Your point seems to be there was an offer from you to the LNC to violate their bylaws. I don’t see how this at all contradicts what Jake Porter and Dr. Phillies reported. If anything, it seems to be an admission that you were trying to fraudulently steal the ballot line from the nominated Libertarian Party presidential candidate and give it instead to someone who got 20 votes in convention, is not libertarian, and is much less popular among Libertarians than Chase Oliver.
Exactly. It was expressly against the bylaws and he was trying to induce others into breach of contract. I have a written parliamentary opinion of Balch (of the RONR authorship team) on the requirements of national which affiliates are bound to (in the context of Colorado but that part would apply elsewhere). And his “explanation” of the attorney bill only implicates him.
What I now want to know is who ultimately paid for those attorneys. The bill went to Roos but whose pocket did it come out of. All of this will come out.
Please pay attention Dr. Moulton. You should also reply to my many emails over the past 2 years. (Hint: Your website hosting Judicial Committee files is down)
The public statement here is clear that this was a voluntary suggestion made right after the national convention:
“If the Chase-ter Maat campaign and the state affiliates agree, the rules allow to co-nominate Kennedy-Shannahan independent campaign and place Mr. Kennedy on the enough ballots to ensure his participation in the first Presidential debate with President Biden and former President Trump. State affiliates are not obligated to participate in this Grand Bargain to place the Kennedy-Shannahan campaign on their ballot. We as Libertarians alone do not have the resources to participate in the debates and in many cases cannot provide enough support for our candidates, but together we do.
This same idea applies to the ballot access of up to 22 states that need stronger presidential votes to retain ballot access. Those states should be allowed to consider placing the Kennedy-Shannahan campaign on their ballot to make their ballot access cut (1-3% generally).
Mr. Kennedy’s promise of freedom that he made to Libertarians at our convention needs to be said at the CNN debate and our party deserves this opportunity to remain viable. This is also how we win. It is not too late.”
https://libertariansforkennedy.com/statement-regarding-the-libertarian-nomination-of-chase-oliver-and-mike-ter-maat/
The emails to the LNC about this proposal repeats the same and expands that the Bylaws authority for such as arrangement is described as:
LP Bylaws Article 14, Section 5 which reads in part “A candidate’s nomination may be suspended by a 3/4 vote of the entire membership of the National Committee at a meeting.”
Upon the suspension of the presidential and vice presidential candidates, Article 14, Section 3 allows for the LNC to appoint into the vacancy which reads “In the event of the death, resignation, disqualification, or suspension of the nomination of the Party’s nominee for President, the Vice-Presidential nominee shall become the Presidential nominee. Two-thirds of the entire membership of the National Committee may, at a meeting, fill a Vice-Presidential vacancy, and, if necessary, a simultaneous Presidential vacancy.”
The process described above is simply another method to nominate as mentioned in RONR 46:9 Nominations by Committee.”
It’s 26 pages long but you can download a copy of the email discussion with LNC members about this proposal here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/16fWS4It6b3MLq86zMpayBWuXa8acs1wc/view?usp=sharing
I think putting RFK Jr. on the ballot as a Libertarian Party candidate for President was a bad idea because, #1) he did not win the Libertarian Party’s presidential nomination at the Libertarian National Convention, and #2) he is not really a philosophical libertarian, he may be better than a typical mainstream politician in some areas but this does not make him a libertarian.
Took apart this nonsense
Hector Roos, the Libertarian Party Flim Flam Man
https://youtube.com/live/lPCAe_UuhjM?feature=share
>As I have explained repeatedly, there was an offer to the LNC and Oliver campaign to do a VOLUNTARY deal where sufficient states were allowed to openly place Kennedy on their ballot so the Kennedy campaign could qualify for the upcoming CNN debate with Trump and Biden. That was the context of the text message. There’s was ZERO intention as to encouraging anyone from violating party bylaws.
Except that “offer” would do exactly that: violate the Bylaws! You can’t intentionally try to do that and then claim it’s not intentional!
The real reason to put RFK on a Libertarian ballot, ANY of them, was to try to give legitimacy to the JFC. That is both well-known and rather obvious.
As for the convention supposedly violating the Bylaws, put up or shut up. I know for a fact that ALL of the balloting was done correctly and the results were accurate.
And no, McArdle did not “save” the Oliver campaign. As Colorado showed, she deliberately tries to undermine it.
I agree that it was wrong for anyone in the LP to try to place anyone on the ballot for President using the party’s label other than Chase Oliver, but I am personally not convinced that RFK Jr. himself ever really wanted the Libertarian Party’s ballot access.
As I pointed out here before, the RFK Jr. campaign started an independent presidentisl candidate petition drive in Colorado in early May. They could have easily spent over $300,000 (I say this based on what I know about their ballot access spending) on this petition drive in Colorado. They had paid petitioners (and paid petition validity checkers) and volunteers and they gathered more than double the 12,000 valid signatures they needed.
Why would they have spent that kind of money and put their volunteers through that much effort (there were in the ballpark of 5,000 plus signatures from volunteers) only to try to steal the Libertarian Party’s ballot access?
I think it was a case of certain rogue LP members in Colorado attempting to get RFK Jr. on the LP’s ballot line instead of Chase in order to get more publicity, votes and money. I suspect the rogue LP members initiated this and attempted to drag RFK Jr. into it.
I know somebody who was on the inside with RFK Jr. ballot access and this person never said anything about a plan from the RFK Jr. campaign to get on the ballot under the Libertarian Party label anywhere.
You would suspect wrong. It was initiated by Kennedy and Kennedy operatives. Sorry but you do not know everything. Have a nice day.
Which Kennedy operatives? The people you named were NOT decision makers on the Kennedy campaign.
I know somebody who was intimately involved with RFK Jr.’s ballot access. This person was in communication with all of the actual decision makers on the campaign, including RFK Jr. himself.
I have talked to this person extensively and they never said anything about a plan from actual decision makers on the RFK Jr. campaign for RFK Jr. to take the Libertarian Party’s ballot access in any state.
This person was in a far better position to know than you are because they were involved with RFK Jr.’s ballot access in every state and they talked to his campaign manager and central national campaign staff and the campaign’s attorneys on a regular basis.
I will ask this person about this the next time I talk to them.
So much this. He was fraudulently inducing people into breach of contract. What did Kennedy know? I know on June 19 he personally met with Colorado which I suspect has legality implications.
This proposal happened a month BEFORE the JFC was considered by the LNC. Except for time travel, this was unrelated to the JFC.
Every AI search I have done on multiple AI search engines has said that it is legal for a political party to enter a joint fundraising committee with a candidate who is not a candidate for that political party.
I have not seen any evidence that RFK Jr. himself really wanted to be listed on any ballots anywhere as a Libertarian Party candidate. If he did his campaign would not have spent such a huge amount of money on ballot access and time getting volunteers to gather signatures for him for ballot access. When RFK Jr. jumped in the Libertarian Party’s presidential nomination race at the Libertarian National Convention he knew he had no chance to win and he only did it because some people urged him to do it. RFK Jr. wanted libertarians to vote for him and donate money to his campaign as he was trying to build a coalition of support, but I do not believe that he ever wanted the Libertarian Party’s ballot access.
The attempt to give RFK Jr. one or more Libertarian Party ballot access lines was initiated and pushed by certain people, whom I would call rogue actors, in the Libertarian Party who were looking for publicity and money and votes by latching on to the RFK Jr. train. This was an example of unprincipled oppportunism and it came from people inside the Libertarian Party, and it is not the first time unprinciple opportunism happened in the party (see the presidential tickets the LP nominated ib 2008-2016 for more examples of this).
Oh dear, give up.
RFK wanted ballot access in the fastest, easiest and cheapest way possible. If that meant co-opting the LP line, he was gonna do it. Stop the word salad about “rogue actors”. We know what really happened.
I know personally. Andy would have you believe I took LPCO to court and they vigorously fought me over nothing. That Kennedy operative Isaac James of Colorado Analytica came to multiple board meetings over the issue just because he was bored and needed to cool his heels. I LIVE here. I and other Colorado Libertarians been defamed over this. I went through hell to prevent it from happening and Andy with his AI and walls of text knows better.
Yeah. No. It’s arrogance or gaslighting and I really don’t care which. It’s dead wrong.
Adamson Scott, you obviously know nothing about RFK Jr.’ ballot access drives or about ballot access in general.
RFK Jr.s campaign had ALREADY FINISHED the independent candidate petition drive in Colorado BEFORE the events happened where some rogue opportunistic LP members in Colorado tried to give him the LP’s ballot line. Th3 RFK Jr. campaign had paid petition circulators and volunterr petition circulators,on the ground in Colorado in the early half of May. I was offered paid work on the RFK Jr. petition in Colorado and I turned it down. The RFK Jr. campaign collected more than double the legal signsture requorement in Colorado and knowing what I know about their spending they could have easily spent over $300,000 on that petition drive.
So RFK Jr. getting on the ballot in Colorado would not have saved them any money, it would have wasted the $300,000 plus they spend on a plus, actually, likely $360,000 plus, which they spent on the independent presidential candidate petition drive in Colorado, and it also would have wasted the time and effort put in by their volunteer petition circulators in Colorado as well.
Brett Kappell an election finance legal expert says it is not clearly legal as reported in the Boston Globe. I’m sure your AI lawyer is more reliable though. Not.
He did in fact try to get on the LP ballot line in CO. It’s a spit in face of CO Libertarians to pretend otherwise.
The issue isn’t merely the JFC (which as per above is questionable) but the subsequent coordinated spending which was the subject of multiple RFAIs and the answer to those was awful. That was IMHO clearly illegal but the FEC lacks quorum, the corrupt Republicans aren’t likely to do anything, and this is small fry in the larger world.
Have a nice day. I’ve got a wall to argue with.
If it was not legal then why did the FEC under the administration of Democrat President Joe Biden not go after the Libertarian Party or the RFK Jr. campaign for breaking the law even though they had around 6 months to go after them for it?
As I stated previously, the FEC went after American Values super PAC for paying for ballot access drives for RFK Jr., which cause American Values super PAC to cease ballot access operation and never turn in the petition signatures they paid to gather, and Democrats also challenged RFK Jr.’s ballot access petitions in other states, so why would they let a joint fundraising committee that was allegedly illegal, and was not a secret, slide?